Surface Pro 3 thread - Info, thoughts, opinions

[jalyst]

It's a glorified niche product,

I remember a time when most people were saying the same about the first ARM tablets.
Now they're considered a major segment that's increasingly eating into the traditional "PC".
Hybrids aren't much more than niche now, but I wouldn't be so bold as to claim they'll never move beyond that.

 

[Ravynmagi]

So I read the two articles done by gabe from penny arcade, and my question is...

WHERE has this microsoft been for the last 10 years? I ask for you been MIA for so long, I am not sure if you are back for good, and thus I am scared even though you are doing everything right (at least for now and this one product.

They were too busy counting all their money from Office and Windows licenses to realize the world was moving a different direction and that smartphones and tablets were a real thing and not a fad. Now that little failing company they bailed out is bigger than they are.

 

[crashtestdummy]

So I read the two articles done by gabe from penny arcade, and my question is...

WHERE has this microsoft been for the last 10 years? I ask for you been MIA for so long, I am not sure if you are back for good, and thus I am scared even though you are doing everything right (at least for now and this one product.

The truth is, this Microsoft was never really around until just recently.

At least on the consumer side, Microsoft has never really be particularly considerate of consumer preferences. Windows, in particular, has always been a buggy, disorganized mess. People who look back on Win95 or even XP with rose-tinted glasses forget how poorly designed much of those operating systems were. It's just that, after years of being around it, we got used to their quirks.

They were always able to survive that way, though, by providing the most "open" mainstream platform. If you didn't like the way something was done, chances are someone else had written some software to deal with it.

When Windows 8 came out, Microsoft made a real change in philosophy, that they wanted to become a software gate-keeper. I can't make and sell Metro apps to anyone I please. They're moving steadily over to web-based services as well. To compete in these kind of areas, they have to face off against well-established brands like Google and Apple. Google can afford to have little customer service because everything they do is ad-supported. If Microsoft wants to charge for these services, though, it has to be more like Apple, where the entire experience is carefully curated.

Unfortunately, under Ballmer, they didn't realize this, and thought they could just release stuff and everyone would adjust to it in the long run. But people (understandably) weren't thrilled with a more restricted system without a better experience in return. Only after suffering a nasty, prolonged PR hit and a drift toward consumer irrelevance have they realized the need to turn this around.

 

[jalyst]

Now that little failing company they bailed out is bigger than they are.

Nokia? Little? Bigger than MS? Hmm...

Only after suffering a nasty, prolonged PR hit and a drift toward consumer irrelevance have they realized the need to turn this around.

You pretty much "hit the nail on the head" with that post. Lets hope they really have learnt some lessons & new management is in-fact implementing them all effectively, the next ~18mth will really bear that out. Little worried with Elop being one of their major managers, but he doesn't have ultimate say on a lot of things, so lets see.

 

[Roland00Address]

sounds like something religious...

It kinda is, for Microsoft is doing all the things right for me to LOVE a product instead of like. I am a person that HATES apple though I recognize how apple has changed the world in the 80s, 90s, and the last decade. I want all the freedom that apple tries to move away from, for apple is not catering to me apple wants simple devices that work, things that reduce stress in your life thus you will buy dozens of them throughout your lifetime for it is like a drug. Apple wants to make devices that make your life better. Apple understands that the ultimate result in how elegant and simple the device is from a user perspective will cause how your brain interacts with it and how it can make technology fun for the non techies in the world for part of the world. Apple understands how all the little details can fundamentally change a product.

This same commitment to detail I want with microsoft or google for they give me more freedom that I want and crave as a tech nerd. All this freedom often leads to not paying attention to detail for it often more important to do a time to market thing and just throw things at the wall and something will stick. It doesn't have to be though. Sometimes you can combine the best part of microsoft or google with the best part of apple and get an awesome device.

So yeah the difference between like vs LOVE, is kinda like a religion for it uses parts of our brain that our emotional not necessary rational. You are either religious, agnostic, atheist, or not really sure or care not because of what your rational brain tells you but because what your emotional brain tells you; what you feel. I am dropping this for I do not want to get side tracked and talking about real world religions.

 

[Roland00Address]

It's a glorified niche product, they can afford to do it. Plus it's a complete product that they have complete control over - hardware, software, support, presentation, etc. You couldn't do that kind of thing with Windows because it's a much broader scope with thousands more variables in play.

It is also the third generation product, and you should be paying attentions to detail by the third generation. This is no longer a "beta product." You should be improving the device in more things than just specs.

That has been microsoft problem over the last ten years or so, they haven't improved windows or office until recently (which they are trying to change with windows 8 and 9 but if its an improvement is up for debate, also with windows phone 7 and 8). They have been adding features, or making things faster; but do those features really make you use the product in new or novel ways or is it just a better spell checker, is it just another checkmark in your feature list?

 

[Ravynmagi]

Nokia? Little? Bigger than MS?
Hmm...

Microsoft bailed out Apple in 1997.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia.

 

[darkewaffle]

I remember a time when most people were saying the same about the first ARM tablets.
Now they're considered a major segment that's increasingly eating into the traditional "PC".
Hybrids aren't much more than niche now, but I wouldn't be so bold as to claim they'll never move beyond that.

I'm not saying it won't, but right now Surface isn't a blockbuster. At the same time however, they want it to be so there's a lot of resources devoted to making into a strong product. It's basically supply and demand - Surface isn't a huge seller yet demand for support isn't that high yet simply because there are not that (relatively) many in people's hands. However to get it right, Microsoft has a large 'supply' of support available - particularly for a high profile user like Gabe (who also has some influence over the nerd community which tends to have a collective dislike for Microsoft).

Point being, it looks good for them to do it now. And they have the resources to spare. And it helps build the brand. And if/when Surface is a more established, successful brand - it probably won't [need to] continue.

 

[Roland00Address]

I understand and I agree with both Ravynmagi, crashtestdummy, and jalyst on the analysis of the problem. Yet just because you understand the problem does not mean you can do all the logistical problems to achieve your strategy. Before hand Microsoft had a strategy problem for the last 10 years, they had no vision. Now they have a vision but they may have a logistical problem for they let complacency kill the brand and possibly kill the type of people that are employed by microsoft.

Hopefully Microsoft gets it right with its new CEO and its new philosophy and all the other management that support the CEO. It is not just the person on top, it is also the entire machine which needs to move as one or you have a sluggish company which may end in failure in such a competitive marketplace.

----

Now some argue that microsoft has the wrong strategy, I think their strategy is novel and in the end may be the right one (I am not a 100% sure). But it is very different strategy than google and apple. They are not at war with each other, but they definitely compete with each other, and thus they compete with consumers on who gets what in the consumer's pocketbook.

 

[jalyst]

Microsoft bailed out Apple in 1997.
Microsoft BOUGHT Nokia.

Oh ofc, that's right, forgot about that little point of history. I thought it was others that contributed more to that, was MS one of the biggest contributors or a bit player? If the former, maybe Apple can return the favour one day? ;-P Anyway I digress!

I'm not saying it won't, but right now Surface isn't a blockbuster.<SNIP> Point being, it looks good for them to do it now. And they have the resources to spare. And it helps build the brand. And if/when Surface is a more established, successful brand - it probably won't [need to] continue.

+1

 

[bearxor]

I must be a glutton for punishment because I'm seriously considering trading in a bunch of stuff this weekend for a 128GB SP3.

 

[InfiniteLurker]

I must be a glutton for punishment because I'm seriously considering trading in a bunch of stuff this weekend for a 128GB SP3.

It's a nice machine, I say go for it. After a couple of weeks of using my new Razer Blade 2014 and then testing the SP3, I decided that, for me, mobility and pen input had the edge over a couple of extra cores and better GPU. I returned the Razer Blade even though I loved it and am eagerly awaiting my i7 256GB Surface Pro 3.

 

[bearxor]

The big thing for me is that I like love the form factor. I was basically doing everything I needed to do on a computer with an iPad. This allows me to run some real windows applications but the Surface Pro is too thick and heavy to be used really well as a tablet. But the Surface Pro 3 seems to large for light tablet usage so I'd still be wanting to get an iPad Mini.

And I'm not a big fan of Windows (7 or 8) and prefer OS X. So I've been considering grabbing a MBA + iPad Mini. But I'd love to have just one device.

Argh, so frustrating. I know Apple's going to turn around in twelve months and have an iPad Pro that runs OS X. I can just feels it in mah bones.

 

[Zaap]

The truth is, this Microsoft was never really around until just recently.

At least on the consumer side, Microsoft has never really be particularly considerate of consumer preferences. Windows, in particular, has always been a buggy, disorganized mess. People who look back on Win95 or even XP with rose-tinted glasses forget how poorly designed much of those operating systems were. It's just that, after years of being around it, we got used to their quirks.

They were always able to survive that way, though, by providing the most "open" mainstream platform. If you didn't like the way something was done, chances are someone else had written some software to deal with it.

When Windows 8 came out, Microsoft made a real change in philosophy, that they wanted to become a software gate-keeper. I can't make and sell Metro apps to anyone I please. They're moving steadily over to web-based services as well. To compete in these kind of areas, they have to face off against well-established brands like Google and Apple. Google can afford to have little customer service because everything they do is ad-supported. If Microsoft wants to charge for these services, though, it has to be more like Apple, where the entire experience is carefully curated.

Unfortunately, under Ballmer, they didn't realize this, and thought they could just release stuff and everyone would adjust to it in the long run. But people (understandably) weren't thrilled with a more restricted system without a better experience in return. Only after suffering a nasty, prolonged PR hit and a drift toward consumer irrelevance have they realized the need to turn this around.

Spot on.

 

[jalyst]

Owners have started posting their unboxings here:
http://www.surfaceforums.net/forum/...5-official-i-just-got-my-sp3-2.html#post64669

 

[Instan00dles]

I wonder when Anand's review is coming out, been waiting for that one.

 

[EightySix Four]

"Please wait while we install a system update"

Blah, come on, finish already!

 

[jmai87]

The #1 dealbreaker for Surface and Windows phones will be the extreme lack of quality apps on the app store. You can have the most beautiful and functional UI but if you don't have any apps to do anything with it, what's the point?

There's not even a native YouTube app yet, which is kind of pathetic.

 

[v-600]

The #1 dealbreaker for Surface and Windows phones will be the extreme lack of quality apps on the app store. You can have the most beautiful and functional UI but if you don't have any apps to do anything with it, what's the point?

There's not even a native YouTube app yet, which is kind of pathetic.

Tell me about it. Its one of the key reasons watching youtube on windows 7 is a terrible experience. No apps. Its shocking but you can get round it using an internet browser.

 

[Instan00dles]

The #1 dealbreaker for Surface and Windows phones will be the extreme lack of quality apps on the app store. You can have the most beautiful and functional UI but if you don't have any apps to do anything with it, what's the point?

There's not even a native YouTube app yet, which is kind of pathetic.

Maybe I dont get it cause I have never used a youtube app but is it that much better than just using the webpage? I have a surface pro 2 and with a proper web browser there is not need for apps since most are usually just front for whats available on their web page.

 

[Imaginer]

The #1 dealbreaker for Surface and Windows phones will be the extreme lack of quality apps on the app store. You can have the most beautiful and functional UI but if you don't have any apps to do anything with it, what's the point?

There's not even a native YouTube app yet, which is kind of pathetic.

Most apps are web based, which leads to web sites that I already leverage well enough. Youtube works well, with either browser of choice and allows uploading too, not app dependent.

And going off of the Programming forums here, many are quick to dissuade programming in other areas and it is a constant political hill - which much like gaming consoles - is the draw of people programing for a platform - in any situation - which one can do on the Pros if one really wanted that modern App... or desktop application.

Lastly, many users of the Pro lines - myself included - only need a handful of good apps to compliment the applications we would likely to be using alongside the desktop or using modern areas side by side. Purely entertainment, IE takes up the full device screen - because it is fully featured enough to be very capable. Facebook and other sites are a quick web address away, no need to install any permanent app. Both of which are just as navigable.

If you are clamoring points against the sole Modern/RT side of things, then there is a point, but this is the Surface Pro 3 thread.

 

[Commodus]

The modern Microsoft (which emerged only shortly after Nadella took over) is refreshing, quite frankly. It's more concerned about producing the best product than protecting the Windows empire at all costs. And while the Pro 3 technically started under Ballmer's reign, it feels a bit more like more like a product of the newer company, acknowledging that the Surface is really a laptop replacement with tablet functions rather than a strict iPad killer.

To a large extent, Microsoft's problem for the past decade was... well, Ballmer. Even late into his tenure, he sincerely believed that everyone on the planet loved Windows and Office as much as he does. Why take smartphones and tablets seriously when Windows PCs running Office will surely dominate for all eternity? Heck, the Surface line's original selling angle was "it's a PC with Office!" -- as if a Windows computer would whip everyone into a frenzy. It even killed promising projects (original Kin platform, Courier) simply because they were Not Windows. The result was a Microsoft with a fraction of the influence it had when Ballmer took the reins.

It's really a triumvirate of companies right now (Apple, Google, Microsoft) that dictate technology, and Nadella is smart enough to recognize that Microsoft is no longer the monopolist it once was.

 

[jalyst]

I used Android, I use iOS, & I use WP, really, the issue for apps is overstated, I've found all the apps I want/need for WP*.

Often the quality of those apps isn't at quite same level as iOS (& sometimes Android), but more often than not they're good enough, certainly to the point that the avg. user wouldn't care less.

Win 8x touch-optimised apps on the other hand I'm not so sure, from what I've heard/read it's still very sparse...


*if there isn't an official one, there's always a 3rd-party free or paid one that's: (1) a_bit/way off the mark, (2) as good, (3) better!

 

[Canbacon]

Looks like a Surface Mini was in the works to make it on official documents.

http://www.wpcentral.com/microsofts-surface-mini-exist-surface-pro-3-user-manual

I wonder if it was/is ARM or Atom based.

 

[you2]

btw fry has the surface 3 i5@128GB for 999 this weekend; no clue ifthat is a good or bad price.