Surface Pro 3 thread - Info, thoughts, opinions

[Imaginer]

wacom will never allow their full sensing tech to be licensed in the near term as it would cut into the profits of the cintiq line. they are still stuck in the hardware vendor mentality as long as the margins are still exorbitant. it would take wacom digitizers as a defacto standard on all tablets (like synaptic touchpads on notebooks) for the sales numbers to shift enough to get them out of hardware and into licensing.

But in many consumer minds and third party software lines, it ALREADY is the de-facto standard...

Why do I see many clamor Wintab support even though Ink has been out for a bit of time? Wacom uses it heavily as well as other painting and drawing suites. Wacom, is in my honest opinion - pulling a 3Dfx and if not careful, would go away much like they have, if their solutions aren't able to keep up.

I also seen cheap USB digitizers out there, but their names are never mentioned amongst any recommendations. For good reason - Wacom again is still a go to standard.

If Wacom really wants to have a Cintiq Companion as competitive, then coming close to the quality of the Surface Pros is a start as again I mentioned their screen is not up to par visually (The Pro 2 easily is the better screen of the two). Instead of relying on a solely bluetooth keyboard, the cover system would be nice (or a dockable and Yoga like solution, for complete foldback and laptop ridgity if needed - but that obviously can add weight potentially).

Or, they can be aggressive and leverage their name to other OEMs - really pushing creative capabilities alongside the touch aspects of tablet PC devices, alongside improving them in power use and ESPECIALLY Cintiq capability. But they right now are managed themselves spread as a simple periphery maker first and foremost.

Even their Cintiq monitors, aren't exactly worth it either - the screen display used isn't exactly the best, and one is saddled with the quality through the life of the device - possibly because of their outlets of sourcing the panels and makers.

 

[EightySix Four]

i use my convertable laptop for art and content creation. basic battery life becomes an issue when working for extended periods. having to worry about when the pen fails or worse having it fail at an inopportune time means either a down period as i acquire new batteries or having to constantly source a stockpile and wondering if they are too old.

given that the passive wacom version eliminates this issue at the cost of 1 mm in thickness, i would rather have the convenience of the simpler solution than the bragging rights for thinness which is only of esthetic value.

Interesting. I have had an N-Trig device before, the Latitude XT2, and it did not require any batteries to function.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Yeah, my very old N-Trig tabletPC didn't need batteries either. Must be some sort of new technology.

 

[gorobei]

the 2 watch batteries in the eraser are to wake the S3P from sleep, the AAAA is for the actual spatial detection. since they went with ntrig i assume this is some sort of alternative system that allows a thinner layer. obviously if thickness was not an issue they could use ntrig's passive tech.

it could all just be a powerplay by MS to show wacom that they arent the only game in town so they can get a better price for the digitizer in the S4P.

 

[Imaginer]

the 2 watch batteries in the eraser are to wake the S3P from sleep, the AAAA is for the actual spatial detection. since they went with ntrig i assume this is some sort of alternative system that allows a thinner layer. obviously if thickness was not an issue they could use ntrig's passive tech.

it could all just be a powerplay by MS to show wacom that they arent the only game in town so they can get a better price for the digitizer in the S4P.

I sure hope so. It also may give incentive for Wacom to improve their Tablet PC digitizers to source out (but from the Panos Surface Pro 3 Reddit AMA, for the time being, the Wacom sourced underlays are not conducive to the design criteria).

 

[finbarqs]

I like the new n-trig stylus. It works better than the Wacom pen in the SP1,2. (To me it does) using it for photoshop and just writing one note. Yes, medium thickness looks a lot like the Wacom pens in one note!

 

[Ravynmagi]

I'm getting close to returning my SP3 and just getting a normal laptop and sticking with my DV8P when I want to use Windows on a tablet.

Just feels like there are too many issues with this product still.

What has set this particular rant off is today I put my Surface into a sleeve and into my backpack as I normally do. I go to work, and it stayed in my backpack for about 3 hours. I finally need to take it with me to a meeting and open up my backpack and immdiately feel how hot it is in there. The damn tablet apparently has been running the entire time. I pull it out and it's not powered on now, but still very warm confined in the sleeve and backpage (this seems like a potential fire hazard). It won't power on, I plug in the charger. I still can't get it to power on. At the moment I'm not too concerned, either it needs to charge up a little before it'll power on (most likely) or it's DOA and I'm getting a refund.

This is most likely related to the sleep/wake issues that still plague this tablet, like they plague many Windows 8 tablets. But annoyed I kinda needed this for a meeting and it's now not available. Guess I'll have to either use real paper or that gimpy pen on the DV8P.

Also there are wifi issues still. Sometimes after the tablet has been a sleep a while and I boot it up, the wifi and bluetooth devices are gone from the Device Manager (so no wifi or BT available), so I have to reboot to fix that. Fortunately that hasn't been a daily occurrence for me, but still, $1500 tablets shouldn't do that.

I also have a love-hate relationship with the form factor. I love it as a tablet, I hate it as laptop.

Still not sure what I'm doing. I'm speaking more emotionally at the moment since the thing seems like it wanted to burst into flames in my backpack. I really wish these products were a bit more polished. I already tried hard to like the Surface Pro 1 and Surface 2 and ended up having to return both of those because of various issues and dislikes.

 

[sweenish]

very warm != fire hazard

I like my hot chocolate very warm.

You're either describing it poorly, or blowing the issue way out of proportion. Still sucks, though. Also won't stop me from getting one in the next month or so.

 

[Roland00Address]

I'm getting close to returning my SP3 and just getting a normal laptop and sticking with my DV8P when I want to use Windows on a tablet.

Just feels like there are too many issues with this product still.

Things are getting better though. Do you remember how many problems the firsts iphones, smartphones, ipads, and tablets had? Looking back their were so many problems, but at the time they did not seem so bad because they were better than the competition and there was nothing like it.


This is different with the Tablets <- Surface -> Laptops distinction. The Surface is a jack of all trades device that straddles two different lines that are already very well developed, established, and perfected. It flaws are obvious when compared to the successes of the specialized devices. That said the Surface are getting much better than what they were a few years ago, and the obvious benefits of having a hybrid device are also getting much better.


I am sorry that the 3rd Surface Pro was not right for you, but maybe the 4th will be which will have much more efficient silicon due to Broadwell (and maybe possibly be fanless and/or have a lower tdp). Also the software will be more matured in 6 to 12 months whenever the next one is released.


If this is not the device for you, please return it. Trust your emotions. At the same time use your rational brain to make the right decision and not let your emotions sway you if this is your only big complaint. Do not waste money on something you are in the end going to hate, especially if it sours you to the concept and you will not like the better device when it finally comes out. Furthermore be constructive, after you return it, send Microsoft a list of the things you like and the things you love. It seems Microsoft is actually being a more reactive and learning company (and thus agile) than it was compared to 5 to 10 years ago.

 

[Ravynmagi]

very warm != fire hazard

I like my hot chocolate very warm.

You're either describing it poorly, or blowing the issue way out of proportion. Still sucks, though. Also won't stop me from getting one in the next month or so.

At nearby Arizona State University I believe, some guy's laptop caught on fire after he put it into his backpack while it was still running. It's something that is often in the back of my mind. The SP3 certainly doesn't have high enough TDP for that to be much of a danger, but it's still not cool.

 

[finbarqs]

I don't remember any problems with the first ipad/iphones... in fact, I still have a gen 1 ipad... One thing I noticed is the graphics controller sucks on my SP3

It's not good enough to do some of the advanced filters in photoshop...

 

[Ravynmagi]

It's been two weeks with the SP3 and I've made the decision to return it. It's just not working out for me. It's still a nice solid product, but I guess what I need is different.

When I want to use a laptop to type out something, I've found I reach for my cheap HP Chromebook 11, because typing on that keyboard is so much better. And when I want to use a tablet I read for my Dell Venue 8 Pro or Nexus 7, because their more size appropriate for tablets. The jack of all trades Surface Pro 3 ends up not being really good at anything. And it's just too expensive for something that I apparently am not going to use as much as I'd hoped.

With the Dell Outlet sell going on, I decided to grab an XPS 12 convertible. It's an Ultrabook with a screen that rotates. Has a Core i5-4200U, 4GB of RAM, and 128GB SSD, basically the same specs as the $1130 SP3 for half the price and without the throttling issues or digitizer. It'll mostly be used as a touch screen Ultrabook with the option of bulky tablet mode for use on the desk or lap (3.2 pound tablet won't be held much). This is more laptop than tablet and I think that's better for me since I have an abundance of tablets anyway and obviously no one device is really going to cut if for tablet and laptop usage.

 

[EightySix Four]

After having it for awhile I've come to the opposite conclusion as Ravynmagi but we clearly have very different scenarios which could explain the difference. I currently don't own any other tablets or laptops (outside of work computers) and my only other personal computer is a desktop. I'm a big hand written note taker and this has been perfect other than the aforementioned pen leaning issue. I haven't had any issues with the digitizer but I'm not a heavy Illustrator or Photoshop user.

The keyboard does a good enough job for everything I've asked of it, including some very light code work, but I don't need to do much "office work" on this particular machine so YMMV. I do find myself using touch for a lot of pointing instead of the touchpad, but I did that on my Lenovo Yoga 13 as well. It makes for a great media consumption device and I haven't found a situation where the speakers don't provide more than enough output. The stand also provides a large number of viewing possibilities which I appreciate when lounging around.

It's found a few very particular niches in my life where it is perfect and I haven't found any situations where it was completely out of place. I don't think it's the perfect device for everyone, but I do believe it is good enough at a lot of different things to be a solid option.

 

[finbarqs]

It's been two weeks with the SP3 and I've made the decision to return it. It's just not working out for me. It's still a nice solid product, but I guess what I need is different.

When I want to use a laptop to type out something, I've found I reach for my cheap HP Chromebook 11, because typing on that keyboard is so much better. And when I want to use a tablet I read for my Dell Venue 8 Pro or Nexus 7, because their more size appropriate for tablets. The jack of all trades Surface Pro 3 ends up not being really good at anything. And it's just too expensive for something that I apparently am not going to use as much as I'd hoped.

With the Dell Outlet sell going on, I decided to grab an XPS 12 convertible. It's an Ultrabook with a screen that rotates. Has a Core i5-4200U, 4GB of RAM, and 128GB SSD, basically the same specs as the $1130 SP3 for half the price and without the throttling issues or digitizer. It'll mostly be used as a touch screen Ultrabook with the option of bulky tablet mode for use on the desk or lap (3.2 pound tablet won't be held much). This is more laptop than tablet and I think that's better for me since I have an abundance of tablets anyway and obviously no one device is really going to cut if for tablet and laptop usage.

I hear you... Yeah, it's somewhat "lappable" but I think when you sit on the ground, with your legs crossed, it's impossible. You have to be fully lying on the ground with the surface on the ground to make solid contact. The only thing that makes me cringe is the fact that the 4400 is not good enough for more filters in photoshop CC, and that it'll bring my CPU down to a stop.

Mind you, I really like the device, but it's not replacing my desktop anytime soon. (For a brief moment, I almost felt like it did...) I mean, i7-4770K @ 4.2 with a GTX 780... 16GB RAM and 1 TB Samsung SSD with a 1TB VeloRaptor (For Photoshop Files) and a 2TB Black (for storage) -- it's hard to beat.

 

[Muyoso]

It's been two weeks with the SP3 and I've made the decision to return it. It's just not working out for me. It's still a nice solid product, but I guess what I need is different.

When I want to use a laptop to type out something, I've found I reach for my cheap HP Chromebook 11, because typing on that keyboard is so much better. And when I want to use a tablet I read for my Dell Venue 8 Pro or Nexus 7, because their more size appropriate for tablets. The jack of all trades Surface Pro 3 ends up not being really good at anything. And it's just too expensive for something that I apparently am not going to use as much as I'd hoped.

With the Dell Outlet sell going on, I decided to grab an XPS 12 convertible. It's an Ultrabook with a screen that rotates. Has a Core i5-4200U, 4GB of RAM, and 128GB SSD, basically the same specs as the $1130 SP3 for half the price and without the throttling issues or digitizer. It'll mostly be used as a touch screen Ultrabook with the option of bulky tablet mode for use on the desk or lap (3.2 pound tablet won't be held much). This is more laptop than tablet and I think that's better for me since I have an abundance of tablets anyway and obviously no one device is really going to cut if for tablet and laptop usage.

I am also no longer interested in the Surface Pro 3 anymore for many of the reasons you listed. The XPS 12 was on sale a day ago for $550 new shipped on ebay. For that price its an absolute steal. Not to mention that you can run Android natively on the XPS 12 because Intel released a Kit Kat x86 build specifically for the device, so you literally have the best of all of the worlds. Great keyboard, fantastic battery life, relatively cheap and dual ecosystems.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I missed eBay sale, looks like it's going for $650 there at the moment. However I get a refurbished one from the Dell Outlet for $550, so that should be like new as well I hope.

I'm going to hang on to my SP3 a few more days and compare the XPS 12 and SP3 together and share my experience.

 

[EightySix Four]

SP3 firmware update today:

Surface Pro Embedded Controller Firmware (v.38.2.50.0) reducing power consumption, and enhancing system stability.

Surface Pro System Aggregator Firmware (v. 3.8.250.0) enhancing battery life, and increasing efficiency and reliability in low power states.

Surface Type Cover Firmware Update (v. 2.0.1021.0) improving trackpad reliability and system stability.

Surface Accessory Device (v. 2.0.1012.0) helping the on-screen keyboard (OSK) appear and disappear at the correct times.

Wireless Network Controller and Bluetooth (v. 15.68.3042.79) enhancing system stability, reducing power consumption in low power states, and improving some WiFi connection scenarios.

We will also issue an update on Wednesday, July 16, to further improve Wi-Fi connection and throughput scenarios.

Source

 

[Muyoso]

I missed eBay sale, looks like it's going for $650 there at the moment. However I get a refurbished one from the Dell Outlet for $550, so that should be like new as well I hope.

I'm going to hang on to my SP3 a few more days and compare the XPS 12 and SP3 together and share my experience.

I'd be very interested in reading about the differences. One thing I just realized is that the XPS 12 is like a year old at this point. I wonder if they are going to be launching a refreshed model sometime soon. Would explain the great deals being found on them recently.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I've had the XPS 12 since yesterday and have been able to use it a few hours.

This vs the Surface Pro 3 is a bit of an apples vs oranges comparison since they are different classes of devices. SP3 being mostly tablet with a type cover and the XPS 12 being mostly laptop with a convertible display. And after using the SP3 I alread came to the conclusion I need a convertible more than a 2-in-1.

Displays...
I really do love the Surface Pro 3's 3:2 aspect ratio. The XPS 12 uses a typical 16:9 and has a slightly larger 12.5 inch screen.

The pros for the Surface is the 3:2 ratio and higher screen DPI makes it great as a tablet and comfortable to use in portrait mode.

The pros for the XPS 12 is the lower resolution means I can run without DPI scaling and don't have to deal with poor scaling issues with desktop apps. And the standard aspect ratio allows me to play desktop games at lower resolution and be able to use a lower resolution that matches the 16:9 aspect ratio. With the SP3 when you use a lower resolution you usually can only pick lower 16:9 or 4:3 aspect ratios, there are no lower matching 3:2 ratios to choose, so you have black bars on the screen.

The XPS 12 has a doozy of a con though. Many, maybe all, the displays suffer from an image retention problem. I saw this as a commonly reported issue on notebook forums before buying, but was hoping mine wouldn't have it. It does. Though at first I didn't realize I had the problem, because it really is only noticeable on solid dark colored backgrounds, so my first time seeing the image retention was when I opened the Kindle app with it's dark grey background, I could see a ghost image of Chrome. Most of the time I don't see this. I have a tendency to be a bit OCD when my gadgets don't work the way the should, so it remains to be seen if this will be one of those things that bothers me, it does a little, but for what I paid, I might be able to overlook it.

Another issue... I'm not quite sure is an issue, but I swear it seems like sometimes the display dims and brightens a little bit once in a while. it's pretty infrequent and quite subtle, so I'm not even entire sure if it's me or not. Auto brightness and adaptive brightness are both disabled in power options and I can't see anything else that would be causing this. I'm trying to watch for this more closely now, but don't yet have definitive proof if it's really happening or my eyes are flaking out on me.

Build quality.
Both are very nicely built products. Both have magnesium bodies. The Surface Pro 3 has no coating and has a kinda smooth but firm feel to it with just a small plastic strip for wifi. The XPS 12 has a soft touch rubberized coating on it's magnesium body and it feels really nice. But there is also quite a bit of plastic accents around the palmrest and the LCD frame. I have a refurbished XPS 12 and the plastic accents already show quite it bit of scratches and stuffs on it's edges. Previous generations of Surface tablets were very vulnerable to scratching, but with the SP3 Microsoft stayed with a natural color without using any sort of anodizing, so maybe it'll resist scratching better than previous Surface tablets have.

The XPS 12 is about and inch wider, half an inch taller, and about 25% thicker than the SP3 with keyboard attached. I forget the exact weight of the SP3 now, but the XPS 12 is 3.2 pounds and I think probably a pound heavier than the SP3 with keyboard. So it's definitely more bulk despite having a screen that is only 0.5 inches bigger diagonally.

Battery life.
It's still early, but I'm thinking the XPS 12 probably is going to get about an hour less of battery life than the SP3 does. I seemed to be averaging about 8 hours on the SP3 with most web surfing and videos. And it looks like the XPS 12 is only able to last 7 hours with the same tasks and brightness using balanced performance. The SP3 is truly impressive the battery life it gets in such a thin tablet.

Noise.
My SP3 fan ran often, but most of the time I didn't hear it and when I did, it still didn't make much noise. The XPS 12, I think has fewer fan profiles, it seems to not do anything, then suddenly roars to life, louder than the SP3. I hear this fan more on the XPS 12 than I do the SP3. And when I'm really pushing the XPS 12 it has a tornando mode. SP3 definitely wins big in the quietness department. Though the SP3 might be too quiet because I hear people say it throttles too much. I haven't really tested throttling on either device yet.

Ports.
SP3 has a full sized USB 3.0, mDP, and micro SD. The XPS 12 has two full sized USB 3.0 ports, mDP, but oddly no SD slot at all.

Speakers.
Both are good. SP3 has forward facing speakers. But I do like the side facing speakers on the XPS 12 a little more because they are quite a bit louder and seem to have a fuller sound.


Summary...
I really think the Surface Pro 3 is a very nice piece of hardware. But my problem is when I want to use a tablet I reach for something smaller like the Dell Venue 8 Pro (I really love this guy) or a Nexus 7. And when I need to do some typing I reach for my Dell Latitude or HP Chromebook with a real keyboard. The SP3 just feels like too much of an inbetween device, too big to be a go to tablet and insufficient keyboard to be a laptop. I haven't turned my SP3 on in 3 days now

XPS 12 feels a lot closer to what I'm looking for. A laptop with a touch screen and can fold down to be used as a tablet on my lap or desk, I could hold the SP3 easier because of it's weight but both are big enough I would usually set them on a surface anyway.

And the XPS 12 is attractively priced, got mine refurbished for $550, but that deal is over at the moment (will probably come again) and I see it selling new on Amazon for $680, which I think is still an enticing price despite the image retention issues. I think the XPS 12 is a very nice convertible for it's cheap price if you are able to overlook the image retention problem.

An alternative to the XPS 12 is the Yoga 2 Pro. It's display just folds back and leaves the keyboard exposed. But it has a much higher 3200x1800 display (with has it's pros and cons with DPI scaling), a bigger screen at 13.3 inches and a refurbished model with the same i5/4GB/128GB specs as the XPS 12 runs at $800 on NewEgg at the moment. Though I'm not sure what the battery life is like on the Yoga 2 Pro and I've heard it uses two possible displays, one made by AUO and one by LG and apparently some of the LG displays maybe having image retention issues as well.

 

[cronos]

An alternative to the XPS 12 is the Yoga 2 Pro. It's display just folds back and leaves the keyboard exposed. But it has a much higher 3200x1800 display (with has it's pros and cons with DPI scaling), a bigger screen at 13.3 inches and a refurbished model with the same i5/4GB/128GB specs as the XPS 12 runs at $800 on NewEgg at the moment. Though I'm not sure what the battery life is like on the Yoga 2 Pro and I've heard it uses two possible displays, one made by AUO and one by LG and apparently some of the LG displays maybe having image retention issues as well.

Did you take a look at the Yoga 2? The Pro part is really just the super high res screen, while the non-Pro has the same physical body and pretty much everything the same except it has 1920x1080 screen, only 4 GB RAM, and it has a HDD instead of SSD.

HOWEVER, BestBuy just came out with this special version of Yoga 2, with i5, 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, and 6-cell battery (the Yoga 2 Pro only has 4-cell battery) for $899. If you're a student there's a $150 off of that, plus you could use ShopDiscover or USPS movers coupon to get it even lower.

 

[bearxor]

That's pretty tempting...

 

[you2]

Played with a pro3 at the MS store yesterday; it actually seems pretty decent. I wonder if it is fast enough to handle D:OS ?

 

[Insomniator]

I've had the XPS 12 since yesterday and have been able to use it a few hours.

This vs the Surface Pro 3 is a bit of an apples vs oranges comparison since they are different classes of devices. SP3 being mostly tablet with a type cover and the XPS 12 being mostly laptop with a convertible display. And after using the SP3 I alread came to the conclusion I need a convertible more than a 2-in-1.

Displays...
I really do love the Surface Pro 3's 3:2 aspect ratio. The XPS 12 uses a typical 16:9 and has a slightly larger 12.5 inch screen.

The pros for the Surface is the 3:2 ratio and higher screen DPI makes it great as a tablet and comfortable to use in portrait mode.

The pros for the XPS 12 is the lower resolution means I can run without DPI scaling and don't have to deal with poor scaling issues with desktop apps. And the standard aspect ratio allows me to play desktop games at lower resolution and be able to use a lower resolution that matches the 16:9 aspect ratio. With the SP3 when you use a lower resolution you usually can only pick lower 16:9 or 4:3 aspect ratios, there are no lower matching 3:2 ratios to choose, so you have black bars on the screen.

The XPS 12 has a doozy of a con though. Many, maybe all, the displays suffer from an image retention problem. I saw this as a commonly reported issue on notebook forums before buying, but was hoping mine wouldn't have it. It does. Though at first I didn't realize I had the problem, because it really is only noticeable on solid dark colored backgrounds, so my first time seeing the image retention was when I opened the Kindle app with it's dark grey background, I could see a ghost image of Chrome. Most of the time I don't see this. I have a tendency to be a bit OCD when my gadgets don't work the way the should, so it remains to be seen if this will be one of those things that bothers me, it does a little, but for what I paid, I might be able to overlook it.

Another issue... I'm not quite sure is an issue, but I swear it seems like sometimes the display dims and brightens a little bit once in a while. it's pretty infrequent and quite subtle, so I'm not even entire sure if it's me or not. Auto brightness and adaptive brightness are both disabled in power options and I can't see anything else that would be causing this. I'm trying to watch for this more closely now, but don't yet have definitive proof if it's really happening or my eyes are flaking out on me.

Build quality.
Both are very nicely built products. Both have magnesium bodies. The Surface Pro 3 has no coating and has a kinda smooth but firm feel to it with just a small plastic strip for wifi. The XPS 12 has a soft touch rubberized coating on it's magnesium body and it feels really nice. But there is also quite a bit of plastic accents around the palmrest and the LCD frame. I have a refurbished XPS 12 and the plastic accents already show quite it bit of scratches and stuffs on it's edges. Previous generations of Surface tablets were very vulnerable to scratching, but with the SP3 Microsoft stayed with a natural color without using any sort of anodizing, so maybe it'll resist scratching better than previous Surface tablets have.

The XPS 12 is about and inch wider, half an inch taller, and about 25% thicker than the SP3 with keyboard attached. I forget the exact weight of the SP3 now, but the XPS 12 is 3.2 pounds and I think probably a pound heavier than the SP3 with keyboard. So it's definitely more bulk despite having a screen that is only 0.5 inches bigger diagonally.

Battery life.
It's still early, but I'm thinking the XPS 12 probably is going to get about an hour less of battery life than the SP3 does. I seemed to be averaging about 8 hours on the SP3 with most web surfing and videos. And it looks like the XPS 12 is only able to last 7 hours with the same tasks and brightness using balanced performance. The SP3 is truly impressive the battery life it gets in such a thin tablet.

Noise.
My SP3 fan ran often, but most of the time I didn't hear it and when I did, it still didn't make much noise. The XPS 12, I think has fewer fan profiles, it seems to not do anything, then suddenly roars to life, louder than the SP3. I hear this fan more on the XPS 12 than I do the SP3. And when I'm really pushing the XPS 12 it has a tornando mode. SP3 definitely wins big in the quietness department. Though the SP3 might be too quiet because I hear people say it throttles too much. I haven't really tested throttling on either device yet.

Ports.
SP3 has a full sized USB 3.0, mDP, and micro SD. The XPS 12 has two full sized USB 3.0 ports, mDP, but oddly no SD slot at all.

Speakers.
Both are good. SP3 has forward facing speakers. But I do like the side facing speakers on the XPS 12 a little more because they are quite a bit louder and seem to have a fuller sound.


Summary...
I really think the Surface Pro 3 is a very nice piece of hardware. But my problem is when I want to use a tablet I reach for something smaller like the Dell Venue 8 Pro (I really love this guy) or a Nexus 7. And when I need to do some typing I reach for my Dell Latitude or HP Chromebook with a real keyboard. The SP3 just feels like too much of an inbetween device, too big to be a go to tablet and insufficient keyboard to be a laptop. I haven't turned my SP3 on in 3 days now

XPS 12 feels a lot closer to what I'm looking for. A laptop with a touch screen and can fold down to be used as a tablet on my lap or desk, I could hold the SP3 easier because of it's weight but both are big enough I would usually set them on a surface anyway.

And the XPS 12 is attractively priced, got mine refurbished for $550, but that deal is over at the moment (will probably come again) and I see it selling new on Amazon for $680, which I think is still an enticing price despite the image retention issues. I think the XPS 12 is a very nice convertible for it's cheap price if you are able to overlook the image retention problem.

An alternative to the XPS 12 is the Yoga 2 Pro. It's display just folds back and leaves the keyboard exposed. But it has a much higher 3200x1800 display (with has it's pros and cons with DPI scaling), a bigger screen at 13.3 inches and a refurbished model with the same i5/4GB/128GB specs as the XPS 12 runs at $800 on NewEgg at the moment. Though I'm not sure what the battery life is like on the Yoga 2 Pro and I've heard it uses two possible displays, one made by AUO and one by LG and apparently some of the LG displays maybe having image retention issues as well.

The image retention issue with the XPS 12 is a complete joke. Its been ongoing for over a year (since the original came out) and there is still no fix. Dell still replaces panels knowing nothing has been corrected and the issue comes right back.

I find the tablet mode of the XPS 12 almost completely useless. It weighs a ton as a tablet and the freaking touch keyboard doesn't come up half the time. REALLY annoying having to reopen the keyboard and flip the screen to login to the computer in the first place. The screen seems to constantly dim and brighten no matter how I set the power profiles, advanced settings etc... I assume there is an actual way to prevent it but it is really annoying that it is so difficult to find.

For $550 its a nice machine, for the $1400 my work paid for it, its terrible.

 

[s44]

HOWEVER, BestBuy just came out with this special version of Yoga 2, with i5, 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, and 6-cell battery (the Yoga 2 Pro only has 4-cell battery) for $899.

Nice price, but this model is also 3.7lbs, making a big dent in its portability.

 

[finbarqs]

had my SP3 for a little while now, using it almost daily. I'm getting dents in the chassis, so just so everyone knows, protect your surface!!!