Surge Protectors?

[Wall Street]

Wouldn't want to explain why, would you?

You asked for a recommendation. That is what I use. Cheaper than the ISOBAR 6 which would be the comparable model from from Tripplite. Better than the plastic Tripplites. If you google for Tripplite warranty you can finds claims of people who have said that they did not pay for their fried equipment (although others reviewers have gotten a payout).

It is a power strip. I don't think you need a full page review. In addition to this product, I have used Furman voltage regulating power conditioners in the past (which admittedly this is not) and they make good products. I like this product because it has good filtering which removes power noise from my speakers, although admittedly I have not had to test the surge suppression abilities.

 

[Blain]

So basically Furman is simply a brand you've used in the past, so you are comfortable with using their products again?

 

[Wall Street]

So basically Furman is simply a brand you've used in the past, so you are comfortable with using their products again?

I previously worked for the audio/video department of the university I was attending. We used Furman Voltage Regulating Power Conditioners to clean up the power for some of the more expensive/sensitive equipment. For example, we had a portable rack case with one of these furman conditioners, a DAT recorder and a bunch of mic pre-amps. This setup was used for professional recordings (as in people not from the school actually paid to contract me to record their performances). The voltage regulating device I linked has a toroidal transformer inside that can regulate any input voltage from ~100V (brown-out)to ~140V back to a clean 120V without resorting to tripping the surge suppression.

Such a voltage regulators is clearly superior to even the whole house protectors mentioned above. However it is also overkill for a PC (which has a voltage regulating digital switching power supply anyways). However, knowing that Furman make such devices gave me comfort when selecting a power strip for my person PC surge protector.

 

[westom]

Such a voltage regulators is clearly superior to even the whole house protectors mentioned above.

Circuits inside amps means AC voltage variations are ideal perfect for the equipment. Light bulbs can dim to 50% intensity and that voltage is ideal for any properly designed amp. So what is the Furman doing? Fixing a problem that does not exist. Unfortunately basic technical ignorance is common when a Furman is recommended.

Would you recommend aspirin as better than penicillin for during fuzzy vision? You have used similar logic by comparing a Furman to a 'whole house' protector. Basic electrical knowledge means Furman's voltage regulation and a 'whole house' surge protector are two completely different and unrelated anomalies. For the same reason you know aspirin and penicillin do not cure fuzzy eyesight. Please understand that comparing a Furman and 'whole house' protector indicates no basic electrical knowledge; completely undermines the credibility of any existing and future recommendations.

Normal voltage for properly designed amps means incandescent bulbs can dim to 50%. While critically important DC voltages inside each amp remain unchanged by even 0.1 volts. Because best voltage regulation must already be inside each amp. The Furman cures a problem that does not exist. A problem made irrelevant by how all amps are designed.

Meanwhile, how often were your incandescent bulbs dimming to 50%? A problem that is not problematic for amps also does not exist? A second reason why an expensive Furman did nothing useful. Similar to blood letting to cure fuzzy vision.

Frequency variation might be problematic for some equipment. Did a Furman cure that anomaly? Why did something so expensive as a Furman not cure frequency variation failures? If making a technical recommendation, answers to those questions also should be easy, immediate, and obvious.

 

[imagoon]

Westom, again do you have any evidence to support your claims because you make tons of claims and assumptions here with nothing more than your word as the evidence. From this claim you are saying that these amps will work fine on 60VAC (in order to dim incandescent 50% [which has anything to do with this discussion at all how also?])

 

[A5]

That Furman protector probably works fine.

I've never seen a single story of these surge protector companies actually honoring the warranty, so don't count on it or anything. Your idealism about how much these companies care about their reputation or honoring these warranties is adorable. They don't care about you, your stuff, or their products.

If you own the home, you are far better off just using homeowner's insurance, since a claim for a $1000 PC looks like nothing compared to a $15K roof or the whole house.

If you rent, look and see if your Renter's insurance covers any power-related problems.

If not, consider getting a Valuable Personal Property policy from a reputable insurance agency. You may have to do a little work to find one that covers electronics damage, though.

 

[bryanl]

I've never seen a single story of these surge protector companies actually honoring the warranty, so don't count on it or anything. Your idealism about how much these companies care about their reputation or honoring these warranties is adorable. They don't care about you, your stuff, or their products.

If you own the home, you are far better off just using homeowner's insurance, since a claim for a $1000 PC looks like nothing compared to a $15K roof or the whole house.

Some homeowner's policies have a deductible or give a discount for making no claims in the previous year.

I know of only 2 experiences with surge protector companies and claims. One neighbor said APC paid his claim of about $600 despite his UPS running a non-APC battery, which normally voids all warranties, but another neighbor's claim for over $1000 was denied by Belkin.

 

[Belial88]

You said That is two wire circuits. Even if someone replaced two hole receptacles with three, that still is only two wire circuits. Two wire violates requirements attached to every plug-in protector.

Confirm this by inspection or with a $5 three light receptacle tester. A tester or inspection can identify missing safety grounds; identify a two wire circuit with illegal three hole receptacles. 100 year old wiring is only a two wire circuit meaning no power strip manufacturer will honor any warranty.

Again, those companies are only dishonest if fine print does not list its many exemptions. The exemptions exist and are numerous. We know from free market economics that a largest buck warranty often identifies a least reliable product. Facts that matter are in the fine print and in numeric specifications. Numbers on its box mean little.

Even "100% wheat bread" can be white bread with molasses; to look like whole wheat bread. Only spec numbers must be fully honest. Expressions “100% wheat bread” and ‘whole wheat bread” describe different items. Also well understood in free markets.

Both Lowes and Home Depot stock Cutler-Hammer (Eaton) 'whole house' protectors. It will not be with another and completely different device also called a surge protector. Those are two completely different items that unfortunately share a common name. It will be with circuit breakers, electric boxes, and other reliable electric equipment. Ask an informed electrical department guy. One told me (don't know how accurately) they are now in secure locations because 'whole house' protectors are an often stolen product. Or ask the Help Desk to find it via their computer. Help Desk can also say how many are also in stock in other nearby stores. It is not that hard.

Repeating what has been posted many times. 'Whole house' protectors once sold in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. That price has probably increased. Yes, there are also 'whole house' protectors selling for $100s. Similar protectors also sell for less in other venues. One can be rented for a few bucks per month when installed by the electric company behind the meter. It is not that hard.

If you think an effective protector sells for $30, then go find a gold brick selling for $1. No matter how many times you try to define a product in terms of dollars, it just will not happen.

If you want an SUV, then do not ask for a sedan. If you want a sedan, then ask in any dealership. The Camry will not be in a Chevy dealer. But sedans are in all dealers. Ask in Lowes, Home Depot, or any electric supply house for a 'whole house' protector. Even Amazon sells them. It is not that hard.

A second best option? Protection that is already inside each appliance. As stated previously. Protection that might be compromised by a Tripplite, Monster, et al if not also earthing a 'whole house' protector.

Repeatedly asking for things that cannot exist (ie effective protector for $20) will not convert fiction into reality. Lowes, Home Depot and so many others have them even it you cannot see it. Ask them for help. If your store is sold out, they can tell you how many are in stock in all nearby stores. It is not that hard.

100 year old wiring means a two wire circuit even if three hole receptacles are illegally installed. Two wire circuits violate Tipplite, Monster, et all requirements. No way around that restriction.

man you're starting to turn into a dbag. My sockets are 3 prong. I'm sorry I misspoke, my house is only 99 years, not 100 years. Jesus christ.

Both Lowes and Home Depot stock Cutler-Hammer (Eaton) 'whole house' protectors. It will not be with another and completely different device also called a surge protector. Those are two completely different items that unfortunately share a common name. It will be with circuit breakers, electric boxes, and other reliable electric equipment. Ask an informed electrical department guy. One told me (don't know how accurately) they are now in secure locations because 'whole house' protectors are an often stolen product. Or ask the Help Desk to find it via their computer. Help Desk can also say how many are also in stock in other nearby stores. It is not that hard.

zero results on lowes website. Show me where lowes sells these so called sub-$50 whole house protectors. They don't exist, that's why. Now shut up about them. If they 'probably increased in price' then stop talking about them to someone who asked for a sub-$50 solution. I don't yell at someone who wants a civic that they should get a ferrari, and then insist that they won't be able to drive well without a ferrari. Especially if I have no clue what a ferrari costs and dont even know where to find one or can't recommend a model.

Like you keep ranting about whole house protectors, but you can't even link one. Shut up or put up.

If you think an effective protector sells for $30, then go find a gold brick selling for $1. No matter how many times you try to define a product in terms of dollars, it just will not happen.

Definitely being a dbag. I said I have $50 or less to spend on surge protection. Tell me where to best put that money, and I'd really prefer more like $20-30.

The question isn't 'how to effectively protect my cheap computer". The question is how to best put that limited funds.

Now, is a $10-30 surge protector useless? Or is it just a small bit of protection that isn't going to be enough in a real event, but enough to help? Or, is it such a small drop in the bucket that one shouldn't even waste their time with?

Don't answer my question directly westom, spend another 3 pages of irrelevant posts telling me to spend exactly what I said I won't spend for something I specifically am not asking for, before you get around to it!

If you want an SUV, then do not ask for a sedan. If you want a sedan, then ask in any dealership. The Camry will not be in a Chevy dealer. But sedans are in all dealers. Ask in Lowes, Home Depot, or any electric supply house for a 'whole house' protector. Even Amazon sells them. It is not that hard.

... wut? I want a sedan. I'm asking for a sedan. I'm asking for the best sedan. I know you hate sedans, but we aren't here to talk about SUVs ('good' protection'). I'm asking for cheap protection, that's not good enough but it's better than nothing. And no, I haven't seen any of these mystery whole house protectors you speak of that are under $50, so shut up. You are a liar.

 

[Belial88]

You asked for a recommendation. That is what I use. Cheaper than the ISOBAR 6 which would be the comparable model from from Tripplite. Better than the plastic Tripplites. If you google for Tripplite warranty you can finds claims of people who have said that they did not pay for their fried equipment (although others reviewers have gotten a payout).

It is a power strip. I don't think you need a full page review. In addition to this product, I have used Furman voltage regulating power conditioners in the past (which admittedly this is not) and they make good products. I like this product because it has good filtering which removes power noise from my speakers, although admittedly I have not had to test the surge suppression abilities.

Hm, that's pretty expensive for just 6 outlets. What if I got this, and then attached power strips to it?

 

[Blain]

Like you keep ranting about whole house protectors, but you can't even link one. Shut up or put up.

He might have been referring to items like the Delta Surge Protector & Surge Capacitor.
I got both from Northern Arizona Wind & Sun for less than $80 shipped a few years ago.

He may have been talking about something like an Eaton Whole House surge protector.

 

[westom]

man you're starting to turn into a dbag.

Anyone who spends less time posting insults can find plenty of 'whole house' protectors such as one from
Lowes
or maybe one from
Lowes
or maybe from
Lowes .

Unfortunately it requires eyes and knowing how to use them.

He has two wire circuits. Even manufacturers of power strip protectors recommend not using their product on two wire circuits. Only effective protection for situation is one properly earthed 'whole house' protector. Next best protection, if not using a 'whole house' protector, already exists inside each appliance. Reasons why were explained previously and repeatedly.

Simplest is to enter a store and ask for it. Asking help from a salesmen is just too difficult? Others who actually want appliance protection earth one 'whole house' protector. Cost is typically about $1 per protected appliance. Best protection is also the least expensive. And the only solution available for a building with two wire circuits.

 

[bryanl]

zero results on lowes website. Show me where lowes sells these so called sub-$50 whole house protectors. They don't exist, that's why. Now shut up about them. If they 'probably increased in price' then stop talking about them to someone who asked for a sub-$50 solution.

Maybe they were sub-$50 when Westom first advocated them (or stopped taking his medication), but they're still sub-$70 at Lowe's:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_30639-82364...ntURL=?Ntt=surge+protectors&page=1&facetInfo=

 

[westom]

Maybe they were sub-$50 when Westom first advocated them (or stopped taking his medication), but they're still sub-$70 at Lowe's:

Again, I said they "were" less than $50. They sold (past tense) for $39.99 in my Home Depot. Meanwhile, getting a useful protector for $10 or $30 is like trying to buy a bar of gold for $1. It is just not going to happen. An earthed 'whole house' protector is the only solution for his two wire circuits.

In that same post were other solutions including a 'whole house' protector rented from the AC utility and installed behind their meter.

 

[imagoon]

Buying just that one device won't protect you properly and not for the quoted price. Install of the CHSPT2MICRO requires at least a dual pole 15 amp breaker (you can't share it has to be dedicated as it doesn't do you any good if it pops during the spike.) So expect to add on another $20-$40 for the breaker. Also it is highly recommended to include CHSPTELE and CHSPCABLE modules if you want the suppressor to actually do anything for multi-connected devices. Obviously prices go up if you need an electrician to root around in the panel for you.

 

[Belial88]

Anyone who spends less time posting insults can find plenty of 'whole house' protectors such as one from
Lowes
or maybe one from
Lowes
or maybe from
Lowes .

Unfortunately it requires eyes and knowing how to use them.

He has two wire circuits. Even manufacturers of power strip protectors recommend not using their product on two wire circuits. Only effective protection for situation is one properly earthed 'whole house' protector. Next best protection, if not using a 'whole house' protector, already exists inside each appliance. Reasons why were explained previously and repeatedly.

Simplest is to enter a store and ask for it. Asking help from a salesmen is just too difficult? Others who actually want appliance protection earth one 'whole house' protector. Cost is typically about $1 per protected appliance. Best protection is also the least expensive. And the only solution available for a building with two wire circuits.

See, was that so hard? If you type 'cutler eaton' or 'cutler hammer' into the search box on lowes site, nothing comes up. So thanks for having better searchability on it. It would've helped if you ever even explained what it was, I might have been able to find it myself on the site.

That morris products one is affordable.

Meanwhile, getting a useful protector for $10 or $30 is like trying to buy a bar of gold for $1. It is just not going to happen. An earthed 'whole house' protector is the only solution for his two wire circuits.

I dont care. It's clear in the OP I don't care about protection. I care more about getting something, rather than nothing, and insurance, rather than protection.

I talked to the lowe's electric guy about whole house protectors and surge protectors, and he was infinitely more knowledgeable and helpful in 5 minutes than I've gotten here. He explained what a surge protector is, what they usually cost, where to get them, how to hook them up, he also explained surge protectors.

What was most helpful, was that he runs into a lot of customers who have things blow out, what products work and what don't, and how insurance claims usually go. He says utilitech, the lowes (re)brand has, to his knowledge, always paid out, he gave a couple examples of people having claims of ~$10,000. He said there's been a few rejects, but they were always so obviously bad (ie beer clearly spilled all over surge protector, etc).

He also mentioned that you need to be mindful of cable and phone lines, as electricity can go through them. So it's less a fine print item, and more like something that commonly happens, as he gave a few examples of times when people lost TVs hooked up to the coaxial.

I'll do a bit more research into whole house protectors, but I think my choice is going to come down to either a whole house protector and then using cheap power strips/protectors for more outlets, or using some cheap utilitech surge protectors that will likely blow out but will pay out.

I asked him if any brands were particular about being resistant to paying out, and he said they were like insurance companies, they want to make sure what's going on, they'll ask for the surge protector to be sent in, they often send someone out to the house, but he hadn't felt any company was resistant to claims, and he said he's always heard utilitech pay out (i think more so because most people coming into lowes buy the house brand, rather than him not being knowledgeable on belkin, tripplite, etc).

he also said the eaton whole house protector has an insurance. He said that's what he used personally, and then a couple surge protectors for completely redundant protection.

He also said a surge protector is way better than nothing at all, but, of course, a whole house protector is infinitely better.

 

[westom]

Also it is highly recommended to include CHSPTELE and CHSPCABLE modules if you want the suppressor to actually do anything for multi-connected devices.

What those devices would do must already be installed as required by many codes and Federal regulations. As was previously discussed.

Lowes salesmen are often electricians. Which means he might not understand concepts necessary to discuss surge protection. Did the guy discuss earth ground? If not, useful and necessary information was not provided. Did he mention best protection is already installed on everyone's cable and telephone lines - as was previously discussed. If he did not know that, then he did not demonstrate a grasp of the basics. Did he mention plug-in protectors cannot be used on two wire circuits? Electricians know that.

A discussion of protection means most time was spent discussing the most important component of every surge protection system - single point earth ground.

 

[Belial88]

He did not go into physics but he mentioned ground. Seriously westom, go away.

So because he may have not told me how best protection is already on phone lines, he's giving bad advice? Didn't he say basically exactly what you said, ie use a whole home protector?

Wait. you haven't mentioned the best protection is already on people's lines. ARE YOU LACK BASICS?

You haven't been helpful at all, you seem to be totally disconnected from reality, just stahp. I really don't care if my pc blows, it's only $700. I'd rather have insurance on it.

The lowe's guy said whole house protectors often get your homeowners insurance reduced, so I might try to look into that.

 

[imagoon]

What those devices would do must already be installed as required by many codes and Federal regulations. As was previously discussed.

Lowes salesmen are often electricians. Which means he might not understand concepts necessary to discuss surge protection. Did the guy discuss earth ground? If not, useful and necessary information was not provided. Did he mention best protection is already installed on everyone's cable and telephone lines - as was previously discussed. If he did not know that, then he did not demonstrate a grasp of the basics. Did he mention plug-in protectors cannot be used on two wire circuits? Electricians know that.

A discussion of protection means most time was spent discussing the most important component of every surge protection system - single point earth ground.

Yet for some reason a lightning strike took out the neighborhood cable boxes, TVs etc. The coax ground block is a shield ground. It does not provide surge suppression. The phone block is also grounded but doesn't provide suppression. Nothing but grounds is required in the Chicago codes, nor IL. These are treated the same as any other ingress point, it must have a grounding block. Suppression is noted or required. You might a fuse.

Why do you keep at it when you are wrong for 90% of what you say? "Previously Discussed" as in you stated it with no evidence to support your claims as we have been asking repeatedly for?

--edit--

Just to be clear:

This is what is required for coax grounding. This is quite obviously not a surge suppressor.

This is a phone block. It is also not a surge suppressor. It does have fuses however.

 

[westom]

He did not go into physics but he mentioned ground. Seriously westom, go away.

Purpose of an effective protector AND what earth ground does were explained previously. Some protection systems do not even have protectors. But every protection system ALWAYS has an earth ground. A protector is simple science. Most important component in a surge protection system is single point earth ground - an 'art'. Concepts explained here and introduced in elementary school science with Ben Franklin's lightning rods.

Apparently a Lowes guy said a 'whole house' protector can get insurance reduced. That is not the big buck warranty hyped on plug-in protectors. Insurance was recommended earlier; purchased from a licensed insurance broker. Carefully read that homeowner's policy. Some do and some do not cover such damage. Premiums might be reduced because a properly earthed 'whole house' protector (and not plug-in protector) connects a destructive transient (energy) harmlessly to earth.

 

[imagoon]

Purpose of an effective protector AND what earth ground does were explained previously. Some protection systems do not even have protectors. But every protection system ALWAYS has an earth ground. A protector is simple science. Most important component in a surge protection system is single point earth ground - an 'art'. Concepts explained here and introduced in elementary school science with Ben Franklin's lightning rods.

Apparently a Lowes guy said a 'whole house' protector can get insurance reduced. That is not the big buck warranty hyped on plug-in protectors. Insurance was recommended earlier; purchased from a licensed insurance broker. Carefully read that homeowner's policy. Some do and some do not cover such damage. Premiums might be reduced because a properly earthed 'whole house' protector (and not plug-in protector) connects a destructive transient (energy) harmlessly to earth.

That post is the same post where your example violates the law of conservation of energy and shows your complete lack of understanding of physics. It also contains hearsay and no evidence. Why can't you provide evidence again? Your word isn't good enough as it has been repeatedly shown to lack understanding of basic science and logic.

 

[westom]

The phone block is also grounded but doesn't provide suppression. Nothing but grounds is required in the Chicago codes, nor IL. These are treated the same as any other ingress point, it must have a grounding block. Suppression is noted or required. You might a fuse.

That cable ground IS surge protection. Some surge protection systems have no protectors. But every protection system ALWAYS has the one component that does surge protection - single point earth ground.

That phone block is also a surge protector. That old technology surge protector featured 'the carbons'. Sometimes those screws would be removed to replace the surge protector - the carbons. Unfortunately, those telephone blocks were often too far from earth ground - were not as effective as they could have been. Today, an NID also contains a surge protector - installed for free as even required by codes and Federal regulations.

Without knowing it, you have posted pictures of devices that do best surge protection WHEN connected low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground.

Surge protectors only do what a wire (from ground block to earth) does better; as explained here.. Surge protectors only replace that wire when an incoming utility cable cannot connect directly to earth (ie telephone, AC electric). The protector is only a connecting device to what does protection; what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules.

A ground block is required by safety codes for human protection. Those codes say nothing about appliance protection. But a ground block (properly earthed) also does appliance protection - from surges. Protection provided by what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. No protector does that. An effective protector is only a connecting device to what absorbs that energy - earth ground.

Surge protection is earth ground. A surge protector is only a connecting device to surge protection. Due to confusion created by advertising, these well proven concepts can be difficult. Surge protection means you know where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. No protector claims to absorb that energy.

A fuse is not protection. Read a fuse's numbers. For example, a 120 volt fuse would have a 250 volt number. That means a voltage exceeding 250 volts is not stopped. Surges increase voltage as necessary to blow through anything that might stop it (ie a fuse or circuit breaker). A surge easily blows through and continues to flow through a 250 volt fuse. Fuses do not do surge protection. It disconnects a surge damaged appliance to avert a house fire.

A surge protector is installed when a ground block cannot make that earth connection. Best surge protection is a wire to earth. Surge protectors are a next best solution for wires that cannot be earthed directly (ie telephone, AC electric). Best protection for cable TV is that ground block connected low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet', no sharp wire bends) to earth. No protector in that best protection. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate.

 

[imagoon]

That cable ground IS surge protection. Some surge protection systems have no protectors. But every protection system ALWAYS has the one component that does surge protection - single point earth ground.

That phone block is also a surge protector. That old technology surge protector featured 'the carbons'. Sometimes those screws would be removed to replace the surge protector - the carbons. Unfortunately, those telephone blocks were often too far from earth ground - were not as effective as they could have been. Today, an NID also contains a surge protector - installed for free as even required by codes and Federal regulations.

Surge protectors only do what a wire (from ground block to earth) does better; as explained here.. Surge protectors only replace that wire when an incoming utility cable cannot connect directly to earth (ie telephone, AC electric). The protector is only a connecting device to what does protection; what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules.

A ground block is required by safety codes for human protection. Those codes say nothing about appliance protection. But a ground block (properly earthed) also does appliance protection - from surges. Protection provided by what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. No protector does that. An effective protector is only a connecting device to what absorbs that energy - earth ground.

Surge protection is earth ground. A surge protector is only a connecting device to surge protection. Due to confusion created by advertising, these well proven concepts can be difficult. Surge protection means you know where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. No protector claims to absorb that energy.

A fuse is not protection. Read a fuse's numbers. For example, a 120 volt fuse would have a 250 volt number. That means a voltage exceeding 250 volts is not stopped. Surges increase voltage as necessary to blow through anything that might stop it (ie a fuse or circuit breaker). A surge easily blows through and continues to flow through a 250 volt fuse. Fuses do not do surge protection. It disconnects a surge damaged appliance to avert a house fire.

A surge protector is installed when a ground block cannot make that earth connection. Best surge protection is a wire to earth. Surge protectors are a next best solution for wires that cannot be earthed directly (ie telephone, AC electric). Best protection for cable TV is that ground block connected low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet', no sharp wire bends) to earth. No protector in that best protection. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate.

No. That is so obviously wrong it is unreal. The ground is a ground for the coax shield or the phone shield if present. The signal wire in the center is not grounded. It can't be because otherwise the signal would be sent to earth. Same with the phone. Typically one side of the cable loop is grounded, the other is not. Otherwise the circuit would be shorted and nothing would work.

I also never stated fuses are surge suppression.

Grounds are not suppression. You need something like and metal oxide varistor to shunt surges from the signal sides to ground (and this doesn't mean a dedicated ground just the electrical source path). The exact same metal oxide varistor in that whole house protector, same as the metal oxide varistor in the surge suppressor.

 

[Belial88]

Purpose of an effective protector AND what earth ground does were explained previously. Some protection systems do not even have protectors. But every protection system ALWAYS has an earth ground. A protector is simple science. Most important component in a surge protection system is single point earth ground - an 'art'. Concepts explained here and introduced in elementary school science with Ben Franklin's lightning rods.

Apparently a Lowes guy said a 'whole house' protector can get insurance reduced. That is not the big buck warranty hyped on plug-in protectors. Insurance was recommended earlier; purchased from a licensed insurance broker. Carefully read that homeowner's policy. Some do and some do not cover such damage. Premiums might be reduced because a properly earthed 'whole house' protector (and not plug-in protector) connects a destructive transient (energy) harmlessly to earth.

I feel like I'm reading the ramblings of a tweaker. There's just this unconnected flow to everything, and it's all very vague with no specifics at all and jumping from topic to topic.

 

[westom]

There's just this unconnected flow to everything, and it's all very vague with no specifics at all

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Many find that simple concept vague due to brainwashing from hearsay and advertising.

A protector is simple science. Some protection systems provide best protection without any protector (ie wire a ground block directly to earth). Protection is always about what absorbs energy - single point earth ground (not the protector). Each paragraph addressed this simple concept: earth every incoming wire to a building's single point earth ground.

Fundamental is a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth. Another is so confused as to believe a ground thousands of feet away in a CO (Central Offfice) is also earthing. Obviously ridiculous. Since a thousands feet connection obviously is more than ten feet.

Simple concepts were proven over 100 years ago. Protection is always about connecting hundreds of thousands of joules to earth. Finally he admits it might be a solution. Because he finally followed directions - asked a salesman in Lowes to show him a "whole house protector". Eventually he will also learn it is his only solution. His building uses 100 year old, two wire circuits. Adjacent (point of connection) protectors are even a safety threat.

. Protection is always about a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection from every incoming wire to earth. Routinely installed for free on telephone (ie terminal block) and cable TV (ie ground block).

Eventually the OP might read and then grasp what was posted. To deny by not reading what was posted is to remain brainwashed by advertising and fairy tales. As if a fuse or some $10 or $30 magic box on a two wire circuit would do protection.

 

[imagoon]

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Many find that simple concept vague due to brainwashing from hearsay and advertising.

Evidence?

A protector is simple science. Some protection systems provide best protection without any protector (ie wire a ground block directly to earth). Protection is always about what absorbs energy - single point earth ground (not the protector). Each paragraph addressed this simple concept: earth every incoming wire to a building's single point earth ground.

You go ahead and earth every incoming wire and let me know how that goes for you. I am particularly interested in what happens when you decide to earth the hot phases to earth.

Fundamental is a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth. Another is so confused as to believe a ground thousands of feet away in a CO (Central Offfice) is also earthing. Obviously ridiculous. Since a thousands feet connection obviously is more than ten feet.

I think there is a sentence here but it seems to be missing key parts like "subjects."

Simple concepts were proven over 100 years ago. Protection is always about connecting hundreds of thousands of joules to earth.

For a lightning rod sure.

Finally he admits it might be a solution. Because he finally followed directions - asked a salesman in Lowes to show him a "whole house protector". Eventually he will also learn it is his only solution. His building uses 100 year old, two wire circuits. Adjacent (point of connection) protectors are even a safety threat.

Again no subjects so this is just a mess of words. If "he" = the OP then he never disregarded a whole home protector as an option. It just wasn't in his price point. It is not the only solution, this simply isn't true. He also stated he has grounding at the outlets, you choose to ignore this fact and keep running around making assumptions. You still provide no evidence, with large organizations stating otherwise [linked in this thread several times] that local protectors are a threat and ineffective.

Protection is always about a low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection from every incoming wire to earth. Routinely installed for free on telephone (ie terminal block) and cable TV (ie ground block).

You linked ground blocks. They are not surge suppressors. If they are, please provide us with the suppression specifications like the shunt voltage, the amperage carry and maximum operational time between cycles. You won't be able to be cause they are not surge suppressors.

Eventually the OP might read and then grasp what was posted. To deny by not reading what was posted is to remain brainwashed by advertising and fairy tales. As if a fuse or some $10 or $30 magic box on a two wire circuit would do protection.

You post with out providing evidence. Until then, everything you have posted is fairy tales.