Suzuki fuel economy cheating scandal

[Achtung!]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uel-efficiency-test-issue-to-japan-government

Suzuki Shares Plunge After Flawed Fuel-Efficiency Test

• Shares tumble as much as 15% as company reports to ministry
• Chairman Osamu Suzuki schedules briefing with reporters
  • 
    
    Suzuki Motor Corp. plunged after saying it used an improper method to test the fuel efficiency of its vehicles, widening a scandal for Japan’s auto industry that first originated with Mitsubishi Motors Corp.
    Chairman Osamu Suzuki will report the issue to Japan’s transport ministry Wednesday, spokesman Hidehiro Hirano said by phone. The company hasn’t found a flaw affecting the fuel efficiency of Suzuki vehicles, he said, without elaborating. Suzuki, 86, will brief reporters at 4 p.m. Tokyo time, according to an e-mailed statement.
    Suzuki tumbled 9.4 percent, the biggest decline in more than seven years, at the close in Tokyo. The stock had tumbled as much as 15 percent earlier today. The company has a market value of about $11.7 billion, and the stock is down 29 percent this year.
    “The impression is bad, especially as the market has become very jittery after the Mitsubishi scandal,” Koji Endo, a Tokyo-based analyst with Advanced Research Japan, said by phone. “Even if they didn’t manipulate data, this is still bad.”

• • 
    
    Suzuki, a relatively small automaker, is in a world of hurt. Not only is Suzuki no longer Suzuki anymore (it's owned by Indian company, Maruti), it's cash reserves are much smaller than those of Mitsubishi's.
    
    Suzuki cars aren't known for their fuel economy, so this fuel economy faking scandal is going to be a big dent to their already mediocre fuel economy.
    
    It seems the only Japanese car brands that aren't doing poorly are Toyota, Mazda and Nissan.

 

[zoiks]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uel-efficiency-test-issue-to-japan-government


Suzuki, a relatively small automaker, is in a world of hurt. Not only is Suzuki no longer Suzuki anymore (it's owned by Indian company, Maruti), it's cash reserves are much smaller than those of Mitsubish

It's the other way round. Maruti is a subsidiary of Suzuki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maruti_Suzuki).
But cheating is everywhere. My 2015 Lexus goes 17-18mpg average combined city/hwy whereas it's supposed to give at least 22mpg combined per fueleconomy.gov. Even when driving on the highway, I got 24mpg max instead of 28mpg as advertised. That said, I didn't buy the car for fuel economy in mind but I hate the fact that they misstate it.

 

[Pandasaurus]

it seems the only japanese car brands that haven't been caught cheating yet are toyota, mazda and nissan.

ftfy.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Honda cheated a while ago and got in trouble, maybe they've learned lol.

It's the other way round. Maruti is a subsidiary of Suzuki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maruti_Suzuki).
But cheating is everywhere. My 2015 Lexus goes 17-18mpg average combined city/hwy whereas it's supposed to give at least 22mpg combined per fueleconomy.gov. Even when driving on the highway, I got 24mpg max instead of 28mpg as advertised. That said, I didn't buy the car for fuel economy in mind but I hate the fact that they misstate it.

There is something to be said about "actual usage may vary." Your terrain you drive and your driving habits both can make a big difference, particularly if you're more aggressive with the gas and brake, or drive 2 footed like some doofus and drag your brakes constantly

 

[Midwayman]

Honda cheated a while ago and got in trouble, maybe they've learned lol.

My Wife's CRV gets terrible mileage compared to the EPA average. 20/22/26 listed. I think she get 16-18.

 

[Harabec]

Our 2 suzukis actually gave very good fuel mileage. The old one is still running and running with ~200K miles.
I don't know about official estimates vs real life but compared to the competition they were cheap to run.

 

[Yuriman]

My Wife's CRV gets terrible mileage compared to the EPA average. 20/22/26 listed. I think she get 16-18.

It might be more correct to say, "When my wife drives her CRV, she gets well below the EPA average."

When I drive our Insight 5MT, doing nothing special I tend to get 75-90mpg. My wife drives around the same speed, but somehow manages to get more in the range of 50-60mpg, and I've even seen her return home with close to 45 on the display. Ditto for our Civic Hybrid - there's a huge mileage discrepancy between our driving styles that has nothing at all to do with our highway cruising speed.

It's worth noting that the more of the usable power you typically use, the lower your economy will probably be. Accelerate slowly, coast in toward redlights rather than keeping your foot on the gas and braking at the last minute, and you can save a lot of fuel.

EDIT: Regarding Suzuki, they probably just put more air in their tires, like Mitsubishi.

 

[Achtung!]

Our 2 suzukis actually gave very good fuel mileage. The old one is still running and running with ~200K miles.
I don't know about official estimates vs real life but compared to the competition they were cheap to run.

Anecdote evidence such as this should be taken with a grain of salt.

The Suzuki Swift and Suzuki Kizashi are known to be terrible with fuel economy.

 

[RLGL]

Before this is said and done : all of them ( MANUFACTURERS) are involved

 

[Zivic]

Before this is said and done : all of them ( MANUFACTURERS) are involved

and as far as I can see the only ones that actually 'care' is the govt.... only because they see a way to fine them and increase incoming revenues.

I think as automobile owners and buyers we have all realized the EPA's mileage ratings were just a rough guess at best. I've purchased 5-6 brand new vehicles and 3 used ones. Not one of those purchases was influenced by its fuel economy. sure I looked at the numbers, but it didn't influence the buying decision.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Before this is said and done : all of them ( MANUFACTURERS) are involved

Yep. Seems like this was an industry wide thing (which makes VW's claims about rogue engineers all the more laughable). Basically every company is currently being investigated and several have already admitted they used such things but claiming it was legal (which I could see if it was like the "safe mode" when CELs but I get the impression they're using that as a means to run vehicles in less compliant modes much more regularly).

We'll see how this all turns out but the auto industry is not looking good.

and as far as I can see the only ones that actually 'care' is the govt.... only because they see a way to fine them and increase incoming revenues.

I think as automobile owners and buyers we have all realized the EPA's mileage ratings were just a rough guess at best. I've purchased 5-6 brand new vehicles and 3 used ones. Not one of those purchases was influenced by its fuel economy. sure I looked at the numbers, but it didn't influence the buying decision.

Its not just about fuel economy though. In fact that's what makes things worse is they've essentially been flubbing both the fuel economy (which as you point out regularly falls short of claims, and trying to claim ever higher MPG they've been developing cheating software) but also their emissions.

In short, we've had the industry make claims about massive improvements, but it seems a lot of it is just lies.

We could see a much faster shift to electric cars, and I think we'll see most cars change to hybrids as those actually seem to be living up to their claim (fuel economy and emissions; yes that's not the whole story but if there's a clamp down over the emissions cheating, they'll basically have no choice). They're already trying to make mild hybrids (namely adding stop-start) ubiquitous.

I can see them being mandated to have black box emissions equipment so that the car companies can't mess with software, it'll just log it, and newer testing will show its output. And then they'd check the average when doing emissions testing for registration of the car.

 

[Zivic]

Yep. Seems like this was an industry wide thing (which makes VW's claims about rogue engineers all the more laughable). Basically every company is currently being investigated and several have already admitted they used such things but claiming it was legal (which I could see if it was like the "safe mode" when CELs but I get the impression they're using that as a means to run vehicles in less compliant modes much more regularly).

We'll see how this all turns out but the auto industry is not looking good.

the further they dig, the more they will find



Its not just about fuel economy though. In fact that's what makes things worse is they've essentially been flubbing both the fuel economy (which as you point out regularly falls short of claims, and trying to claim ever higher MPG they've been developing cheating software) but also their emissions.

just shows the whole EPA and legislation is BS... you can't legislate something into existence. can't pass legislation to eliminate the poor... can't magically legislate cars to get 50mpg

In short, we've had the industry make claims about massive improvements, but it seems a lot of it is just lies.

We could see a much faster shift to electric cars, and I think we'll see most cars change to hybrids as those actually seem to be living up to their claim (fuel economy and emissions; yes that's not the whole story but if there's a clamp down over the emissions cheating, they'll basically have no choice). They're already trying to make mild hybrids (namely adding stop-start) ubiquitous.

I can see them being mandated to have black box emissions equipment so that the car companies can't mess with software, it'll just log it, and newer testing will show its output. And then they'd check the average when doing emissions testing for registration of the car.

the testing is BS anyways... all they are showing is for that particular set of parameters, this is how the car performed. It would be very hard to replicate those exact parameters in the real world for any of the customers. Personally I don't have any issue with companies having the computers detect the testing parameters and adjusting fuel trims and timing accordingly, because, like I said, I feel the testing is complete BS anyways.

 

[WT]

Before this is said and done : all of them ( MANUFACTURERS) are involved

:thumbsup: Shocked, I tell you !! SHOCKED !

 

[tortillasoup]

the testing is BS anyways... all they are showing is for that particular set of parameters, this is how the car performed. It would be very hard to replicate those exact parameters in the real world for any of the customers. Personally I don't have any issue with companies having the computers detect the testing parameters and adjusting fuel trims and timing accordingly, because, like I said, I feel the testing is complete BS anyways.

The point of the testing is to give consumers a way of doing apples to apples comparison of fuel economy between vehicles. Obviously history and testing has shown that manufacturers have gamed the fuel economy testing and that some vehicles get better real world fuel economy for their drivers compared with what the fuel economy test results indicate. The Jetta Diesel was the perfect example of a vehicle that could get better fuel economy outside of the test parameters. The 2016 Prius is also another vehicle that is getting better fuel economy for its drivers than the test procedure would indicate.

 

[nakedfrog]

On the rare occasion that I see a newer Suzuki, the only thing I can think is "where do you even BUY a new Suzuki?"

 

[slugg]

People care about Suzuki cars?

 

[Midwayman]

On the rare occasion that I see a newer Suzuki, the only thing I can think is "where do you even BUY a new Suzuki?"

At a motorcycle dealer if you know what you are doing.

 

[xaeniac]

Suzuki makes great bikes don't see why that didn't transition to cars.

 

[thomsbrain]

My Wife's CRV gets terrible mileage compared to the EPA average. 20/22/26 listed. I think she get 16-18.

Our averages exceed highway ratings on all three of our Hondas, including our CRV. There's no magic wand that can fix wacky driving styles, short drives on cold engines, or city/stop-and-go.

Car and Driver consistently report their actual observed test MPG for Hondas as much closer to claimed than for just about any other manufacturer.

 

[Achtung!]

Suzuki makes great bikes don't see why that didn't transition to cars.

They did however they failed in the US and other major economies.

They only sell well in 3rd world countries like India now.