It's called an analogy. A rather simple language construct. I'm surprised you've never heard of one.Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
First... ANWR has nothing to do with NAFTA/CAFTA. There isn't a comparison to be made.Originally posted by: conjur
:roll:
ANWR will do for our dependence upon foreign oil what NAFTA/CAFTA have done for job growth in the US.
Money would be better off spent developing alternative forms of energy, esp. nuclear power.
Make money? Who's going to make money outside of a few oil companies? It's time to move to alternative sources of fuel. If the Europeans can do nuclear power, why can't we? It's time to remove whatever legal obstacles there are and get on with it.Second... Spend money or make money? Why invest in Nuclear energy when there is no way in hell, given our present legal system, that a nuke plant will ever make it past the lawsuits? Wishful thinking doesn't keep the lights on.
I have heard of that... Your analogy is irrelevant to ANWROriginally posted by: conjur
It's called an analogy. A rather simple language construct. I'm surprised you've never heard of one.Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
First... ANWR has nothing to do with NAFTA/CAFTA. There isn't a comparison to be made.Originally posted by: conjur
:roll:
ANWR will do for our dependence upon foreign oil what NAFTA/CAFTA have done for job growth in the US.
Money would be better off spent developing alternative forms of energy, esp. nuclear power.
Jeez... if it were that simple we'd be drilling in ANWR right now.Make money? Who's going to make money outside of a few oil companies? It's time to move to alternative sources of fuel. If the Europeans can do nuclear power, why can't we? It's time to remove whatever legal obstacles there are and get on with it.Second... Spend money or make money? Why invest in Nuclear energy when there is no way in hell, given our present legal system, that a nuke plant will ever make it past the lawsuits? Wishful thinking doesn't keep the lights on.
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Wow... Got the tree-hugging left out in force today. Too bad there aren't any trees on the coastal plane.
But seriously. Yes... We import about 2 million barrels of oil per day from the ME. ANWR will supply about 1 million barrels per day. The sooner we get going, the sooner we see that production. That's one down...
Attached to every ANWR rider thus far is a provision that every drop of ANWR oil be shipped to west coast refineries. None of it is allowed to be shipped to Asia. That's two down...
And to you Yosemite/Yellowstone guys... What a ridiculous comparison. ANWR is hardly a national treasure visited by millions of families every year. The tourism industry in ANWR consists of a dozen or so biologists and a few senators every year. That's about it. This would be more along the lines of drilling in Death Valley. (Only colder) So don't fret! We still have hundreds of millions of unmolested acres up here. We only want to drill where the oil is. We promise to leave the rest of the state alone.
Where are you pulling those stats from? Every single thing I've read (uncluding the ful USGS report) did it say that drilling there would produce a significant amount of oil...
That would be common knowledge sir. The median amount of oil believed to be in ANWR (meaning that is as likely to be less as is it to be more) is about 10.6 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil - based on $30/barrel pricing. Overall estimates range from a little over 3 billion barrels on the low side to over 16 billion barrels on the high side.
There is a lot of oil there. Enough to pump out ~1 million barrels a day for 20-30 years.
95% chance of there being roughly 4.25 billion barrels of recoverable oil in ANWR.
5% chance of your estimate.
The USGS made the following estimates in 1998 of technically recoverable oil and natural gas liquids from the ANWR Coastal Plain:
There is a 95 percent probability (a 19 in 20 chance) that at least 5.7 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
There is a 5 percent probability (a 1 in 20 chance) that at least 16 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
The mean (expected value) estimate is 10.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil.
Projected ANWR peak production rates range from 650,000 to 1.9 million barrels per day across the 6 cases.
For the mean resource case (10.3 billion barrels technically recoverable), ANWR peak production rates range from 1.0 to 1.35 million barrels per day.
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Our children's children's children will utter our names as a curse, we the greatest pigs who ever lived.
Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Wow... Got the tree-hugging left out in force today. Too bad there aren't any trees on the coastal plane.
But seriously. Yes... We import about 2 million barrels of oil per day from the ME. ANWR will supply about 1 million barrels per day. The sooner we get going, the sooner we see that production. That's one down...
Attached to every ANWR rider thus far is a provision that every drop of ANWR oil be shipped to west coast refineries. None of it is allowed to be shipped to Asia. That's two down...
And to you Yosemite/Yellowstone guys... What a ridiculous comparison. ANWR is hardly a national treasure visited by millions of families every year. The tourism industry in ANWR consists of a dozen or so biologists and a few senators every year. That's about it. This would be more along the lines of drilling in Death Valley. (Only colder) So don't fret! We still have hundreds of millions of unmolested acres up here. We only want to drill where the oil is. We promise to leave the rest of the state alone.
Every ecosystem is a treasure, whether it's nationally recognized or not. I don't give a bloated neo-con's ass if it's a tourist attraction. Noone has a clue the amount of damage this will do to the fragile ecosystem. And yes, I would much rather be a tree hugger (how this ever got to be an insult is beyond me) than someone who is so freakishly short sighted they can't see beyond the gas pump.
Originally posted by: pinion9
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Our children's children's children will utter our names as a curse, we the greatest pigs who ever lived.
I live in Alaska and personally would never think of visiting ANWR. It is a barren wasteland and very cold. I would rather go see ancient Mayan Ruins, pyramids, the south pacific islands, etc. Trust me; no one is missing out on the area.
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Wow... Got the tree-hugging left out in force today. Too bad there aren't any trees on the coastal plane.
But seriously. Yes... We import about 2 million barrels of oil per day from the ME. ANWR will supply about 1 million barrels per day. The sooner we get going, the sooner we see that production. That's one down...
Attached to every ANWR rider thus far is a provision that every drop of ANWR oil be shipped to west coast refineries. None of it is allowed to be shipped to Asia. That's two down...
And to you Yosemite/Yellowstone guys... What a ridiculous comparison. ANWR is hardly a national treasure visited by millions of families every year. The tourism industry in ANWR consists of a dozen or so biologists and a few senators every year. That's about it. This would be more along the lines of drilling in Death Valley. (Only colder) So don't fret! We still have hundreds of millions of unmolested acres up here. We only want to drill where the oil is. We promise to leave the rest of the state alone.
Where are you pulling those stats from? Every single thing I've read (uncluding the ful USGS report) did it say that drilling there would produce a significant amount of oil...
That would be common knowledge sir. The median amount of oil believed to be in ANWR (meaning that is as likely to be less as is it to be more) is about 10.6 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil - based on $30/barrel pricing. Overall estimates range from a little over 3 billion barrels on the low side to over 16 billion barrels on the high side.
There is a lot of oil there. Enough to pump out ~1 million barrels a day for 20-30 years.
95% chance of there being roughly 4.25 billion barrels of recoverable oil in ANWR.
5% chance of your estimate.
WRONG!!! But I'll give you points for trying to distort what I said... There is a 5% chace that there is 16 billion barrels of oil there. I said the mean estimate is 10.6 billion (from another link) and this link says 10.3 billion.
Lotsa oil here...
The USGS made the following estimates in 1998 of technically recoverable oil and natural gas liquids from the ANWR Coastal Plain:
There is a 95 percent probability (a 19 in 20 chance) that at least 5.7 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
There is a 5 percent probability (a 1 in 20 chance) that at least 16 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
The mean (expected value) estimate is 10.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil.
Projected ANWR peak production rates range from 650,000 to 1.9 million barrels per day across the 6 cases.
For the mean resource case (10.3 billion barrels technically recoverable), ANWR peak production rates range from 1.0 to 1.35 million barrels per day.
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Wow... Got the tree-hugging left out in force today. Too bad there aren't any trees on the coastal plane.
But seriously. Yes... We import about 2 million barrels of oil per day from the ME. ANWR will supply about 1 million barrels per day. The sooner we get going, the sooner we see that production. That's one down...
Attached to every ANWR rider thus far is a provision that every drop of ANWR oil be shipped to west coast refineries. None of it is allowed to be shipped to Asia. That's two down...
And to you Yosemite/Yellowstone guys... What a ridiculous comparison. ANWR is hardly a national treasure visited by millions of families every year. The tourism industry in ANWR consists of a dozen or so biologists and a few senators every year. That's about it. This would be more along the lines of drilling in Death Valley. (Only colder) So don't fret! We still have hundreds of millions of unmolested acres up here. We only want to drill where the oil is. We promise to leave the rest of the state alone.
Where are you pulling those stats from? Every single thing I've read (uncluding the ful USGS report) did it say that drilling there would produce a significant amount of oil...
That would be common knowledge sir. The median amount of oil believed to be in ANWR (meaning that is as likely to be less as is it to be more) is about 10.6 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil - based on $30/barrel pricing. Overall estimates range from a little over 3 billion barrels on the low side to over 16 billion barrels on the high side.
There is a lot of oil there. Enough to pump out ~1 million barrels a day for 20-30 years.
95% chance of there being roughly 4.25 billion barrels of recoverable oil in ANWR.
5% chance of your estimate.
WRONG!!! But I'll give you points for trying to distort what I said... There is a 5% chace that there is 16 billion barrels of oil there. I said the mean estimate is 10.6 billion (from another link) and this link says 10.3 billion.
Lotsa oil here...
The USGS made the following estimates in 1998 of technically recoverable oil and natural gas liquids from the ANWR Coastal Plain:
There is a 95 percent probability (a 19 in 20 chance) that at least 5.7 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
There is a 5 percent probability (a 1 in 20 chance) that at least 16 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
The mean (expected value) estimate is 10.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil.
Projected ANWR peak production rates range from 650,000 to 1.9 million barrels per day across the 6 cases.
For the mean resource case (10.3 billion barrels technically recoverable), ANWR peak production rates range from 1.0 to 1.35 million barrels per day.
my point stands ... that expected value 10.3 bil over the next 30 years. Assuming that the rate they extract is linear (wrong, but irrelevant), annualy we'd get 300mil barrels of oil. This country consumes 75 mil barrels a day, so the annual output of the alaska oil would cover 4 days in a year. 4/365 is 0.01 or about 1.1% of our annual consumption. Even if the 10.3 bil can be pulled out over the course of 15 years, the supply will only incease 2.2% (assuming that demand stays constant), which again makes no difference.
So there you have it, we're drilling in alaska for 1.1% supply increase of oil. 1.1% annual increase isn't even enough to reflect on gas pumps, so you're really drilling there for no reason at all. (assuming that the argument for drilling there revolves around dependancy on foreign oil)
No, it'll make us more energy DEPENDENT in the long run. You want us to use up all our oil, and then be at their mercy.Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Wrong again mi amigo! The US only consumes ~22 million barrels a day. (A little less actually)
Link
So per my other post, assuming median reserves... we'll be pulling 1-1.35 million barrels a day out of there. That would be ~5% of our daily supply. And more importantly, that ammount could offset our ME imports by ~50% and take us even closer to an energy independent America.
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Wow... Got the tree-hugging left out in force today. Too bad there aren't any trees on the coastal plane.
But seriously. Yes... We import about 2 million barrels of oil per day from the ME. ANWR will supply about 1 million barrels per day. The sooner we get going, the sooner we see that production. That's one down...
Attached to every ANWR rider thus far is a provision that every drop of ANWR oil be shipped to west coast refineries. None of it is allowed to be shipped to Asia. That's two down...
And to you Yosemite/Yellowstone guys... What a ridiculous comparison. ANWR is hardly a national treasure visited by millions of families every year. The tourism industry in ANWR consists of a dozen or so biologists and a few senators every year. That's about it. This would be more along the lines of drilling in Death Valley. (Only colder) So don't fret! We still have hundreds of millions of unmolested acres up here. We only want to drill where the oil is. We promise to leave the rest of the state alone.
Where are you pulling those stats from? Every single thing I've read (uncluding the ful USGS report) did it say that drilling there would produce a significant amount of oil...
That would be common knowledge sir. The median amount of oil believed to be in ANWR (meaning that is as likely to be less as is it to be more) is about 10.6 billion barrels of economically recoverable oil - based on $30/barrel pricing. Overall estimates range from a little over 3 billion barrels on the low side to over 16 billion barrels on the high side.
There is a lot of oil there. Enough to pump out ~1 million barrels a day for 20-30 years.
95% chance of there being roughly 4.25 billion barrels of recoverable oil in ANWR.
5% chance of your estimate.
WRONG!!! But I'll give you points for trying to distort what I said... There is a 5% chace that there is 16 billion barrels of oil there. I said the mean estimate is 10.6 billion (from another link) and this link says 10.3 billion.
Lotsa oil here...
The USGS made the following estimates in 1998 of technically recoverable oil and natural gas liquids from the ANWR Coastal Plain:
There is a 95 percent probability (a 19 in 20 chance) that at least 5.7 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
There is a 5 percent probability (a 1 in 20 chance) that at least 16 billion barrels of oil are recoverable.
The mean (expected value) estimate is 10.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil.
Projected ANWR peak production rates range from 650,000 to 1.9 million barrels per day across the 6 cases.
For the mean resource case (10.3 billion barrels technically recoverable), ANWR peak production rates range from 1.0 to 1.35 million barrels per day.
my point stands ... that expected value 10.3 bil over the next 30 years. Assuming that the rate they extract is linear (wrong, but irrelevant), annualy we'd get 300mil barrels of oil. This country consumes 75 mil barrels a day, so the annual output of the alaska oil would cover 4 days in a year. 4/365 is 0.01 or about 1.1% of our annual consumption. Even if the 10.3 bil can be pulled out over the course of 15 years, the supply will only incease 2.2% (assuming that demand stays constant), which again makes no difference.
So there you have it, we're drilling in alaska for 1.1% supply increase of oil. 1.1% annual increase isn't even enough to reflect on gas pumps, so you're really drilling there for no reason at all. (assuming that the argument for drilling there revolves around dependancy on foreign oil)
Wrong again mi amigo! The US only consumes ~22 million barrels a day. (A little less actually)
Link
So per my other post, assuming median reserves... we'll be pulling 1-1.35 million barrels a day out of there. That would be ~5% of our daily supply. And more importantly, that ammount could offset our ME imports by ~50% and take us even closer to an energy independent America.
Are you feeling Ok? Or are you just that desperate for any excuse to stay out of there?Originally posted by: dullard
No, it'll make us more energy DEPENDENT in the long run. You want us to use up all our oil, and then be at their mercy.Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Wrong again mi amigo! The US only consumes ~22 million barrels a day. (A little less actually)
Link
So per my other post, assuming median reserves... we'll be pulling 1-1.35 million barrels a day out of there. That would be ~5% of our daily supply. And more importantly, that ammount could offset our ME imports by ~50% and take us even closer to an energy independent America.
Instead, let the middle east run out of oil. Lets save ours for when we really need it. In the end, we can be the only ones left with oil. Then drill our oil in Alaska. Everyone will be dependent on us. We will be OPEC. But it'll be an American OPEC without competition and when oil prices are sky high compared to today's prices (even factoring in inflation).
You need to think of the long term.
No, I want to be in there. Lets drill that oil. HOWEVER, now isn't the right timing. I've been arguing this for years, and still no one has come up with a good reason why we should use up our oil first. Until that happens, I'll keep arguing for a delay.Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Are you feeling Ok? Or are you just that desperate for any excuse to stay out of there?
Originally posted by: dullard
No, it'll make us more energy DEPENDENT in the long run. You want us to use up all our oil, and then be at their mercy.Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Wrong again mi amigo! The US only consumes ~22 million barrels a day. (A little less actually)
Link
So per my other post, assuming median reserves... we'll be pulling 1-1.35 million barrels a day out of there. That would be ~5% of our daily supply. And more importantly, that ammount could offset our ME imports by ~50% and take us even closer to an energy independent America.
Instead, let the middle east run out of oil. Lets save ours for when we really need it. In the end, we can be the only ones left with oil. Then drill our oil in Alaska. Everyone will be dependent on us. We will be OPEC. But it'll be an American OPEC without competition and when oil prices are sky high compared to today's prices (even factoring in inflation).
You need to think of the long term.
Originally posted by: dullard
No, I want to be in there. Lets drill that oil. HOWEVER, now isn't the right timing. I've been arguing this for years, and still no one has come up with a good reason why we should use up our oil first. Until that happens, I'll keep arguing for a delay.Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Are you feeling Ok? Or are you just that desperate for any excuse to stay out of there?
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
How much do you figure your oil check will increase Whoozyerdaddy
If the U.S. goes ahead and breaks another treaty, I hope Canada just cuts the same amount of oil off and gives it to China instead
Of course we aren't going to run out any time soon. That isn't part of my argument at all. I'm thinking of an economic stance. Suppose, as a country, we can drill and sell that oil at any time. Would America be better off selling it at $20/barrel, $30/barrel, or $50/barrel? Clearly, we'd be better off at $50/barrel. I say wait until it is in the $100/barrel range - in say maybe 15 years from now. Sure inflation will make that worth a bit less than $100 in today's dollars. But lets just wait it out. Sell our goods when the price is even higher.Originally posted by: charrison
You are now assuming the world is going to run out of oil. I think that is a false assumption. While we may run out of cheap oil, there is no fear of runing out of stuff to make gas with in the future.
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: dullard
No, it'll make us more energy DEPENDENT in the long run. You want us to use up all our oil, and then be at their mercy.Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Wrong again mi amigo! The US only consumes ~22 million barrels a day. (A little less actually)
Link
So per my other post, assuming median reserves... we'll be pulling 1-1.35 million barrels a day out of there. That would be ~5% of our daily supply. And more importantly, that ammount could offset our ME imports by ~50% and take us even closer to an energy independent America.
Instead, let the middle east run out of oil. Lets save ours for when we really need it. In the end, we can be the only ones left with oil. Then drill our oil in Alaska. Everyone will be dependent on us. We will be OPEC. But it'll be an American OPEC without competition and when oil prices are sky high compared to today's prices (even factoring in inflation).
You need to think of the long term.
You are now assuming the world is going to run out of oil. I think that is a false assumption. While we may run out of cheap oil, there is no fear of runing out of stuff to make gas with in the future.
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
How much do you figure your oil check will increase Whoozyerdaddy
If the U.S. goes ahead and breaks another treaty, I hope Canada just cuts the same amount of oil off and gives it to China instead
The oil is on a global market. It does not matter who the oil is sold too. Diverting supply to China will only free up supply from another location. This would only result in rearranging the deck chairs.
Originally posted by: OrByte
But if the oil is there, you KNOW people are gonna want to get at it.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Our children's children's children will utter our names as a curse, we the greatest pigs who ever lived.
it was only a matter of time...
Strong the forces of ignorance are in this one. No Jedi knight, here. :roll:Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Exactly. Since Oil is NON-renewable resource, it was only a matter of time until the government was forced into drilling up there to meet our energy demands.
Besides, ANWR is a sub-arctic wasteland. Almost no one is going to miss it, except for a few animals that will probably be smart enough migrate elsewhere.