Swift boats Part 2

[Shelly21]

link

"Nightline" traveled to Vietnam and found a number of witnesses who have never been heard from before, and who have no particular ax to grind for or against Kerry. Only one of them, in fact, even knew who Kerry is. The witnesses, all Vietnamese, are still living in the same villages where the fighting took place more than 35 years ago. "

Wow, amazing... but I guess we can't trust these guys because they were there too.

Note: My conservative boss actually pointed out this article. He is saying that this makes him question why the other anti-kerry swift boat vets came out after 35 years.

 

[Infohawk]

Repost but this does deserve more attention. The swiftliars need to be exposed. There's the video in the other thread.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Kerry's citation says he "uncovered an enemy rest and supply area, which was destroyed," but according to the villagers, the Americans missed the military supplies.

 

[Genx87]

Now this is hilarious and if the Left knows better will stop this dead in their tracks.

Quoting the enemy to prove a point?

ok but dont say I didnt warn you

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Now this is hilarious and if the Left knows better will stop this dead in their tracks.

Quoting the enemy to prove a point?

ok but dont say I didnt warn you

Are we at war in Vietnam still? Who is our enemy? I suppose if we interview Japanese survivors on the effects of the A-bombs we are talking to enemies? Can I go to London, or is that treason? How about buying German cars? What about if a New Yorker travels to Virginia for vacation?

We have been at war with most countries on Earth, are they all our enemies? When is it ok to talk to them by your standards?

 

[Chadder007]

404 Swift Vets Lying not Found.

 

[Genx87]

If you interviewed Japanese commanders to prove something between vets in the invasion of Okinawa. Does it make alot of sense? I would look at it as desperation and most people would probably look at it as befriending the enemy.

But go ahead, like I said. Everything you libs have done upto this point with the whole vietnam debacle has been nothing but successful. Why not go and quote people who ran the war from Hanoi? Maybe the same ones who met with Johnny and Fonda. I wont mind if this continues to get pushed. We all know how the polls reacted the last time

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Genx87
If you interviewed Japanese commanders to prove something between vets in the invasion of Okinawa. Does it make alot of sense? I would look at it as desperation and most people would probably look at it as befriending the enemy.

But go ahead, like I said. Everything you libs have done upto this point with the whole vietnam debacle has been nothing but successful. Why not go and quote people who ran the war from Hanoi? Maybe the same ones who met with Johnny and Fonda. I wont mind if this continues to get pushed. We all know how the polls reacted the last time

It's already backfiring on ABC. Many of the things the VC said to ABC contradict Kerry's claims in his autobiography, which contradict his biography, which contradict the after action reports.

Yet we are supposed to believe the stitchless wonder?

 

[Todd33]

I don't see where it says they are vietcong commanders. I see that they are people living in the villages. You do know most people in fighting zones were just civilians right? I guess when you are part of a simple minded group that clumps all arabs as terrorist, then all Vietnamese are enemies.

 

[piasabird]

This is much ado about nothing. The entire article is inconclusive. It does not shed much new light on this subject. When you are being shot at it might seem like there are more people than you can count.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Todd33
I don't see where it says they are vietcong commanders. I see that they are people living in the villages. You do know most people in fighting zones were just civilians right? I guess when you are part of a simple minded group that clumps all arabs as terrorist, then all Vietnamese are enemies.

From the ABC article:

Less than a kilometer upriver is Nha Vi, a small hamlet. Vo Van Tam, now 54, was a local Viet Cong commander during the war. According to him, the area was a hotbed of guerrilla activity. They had recently been reinforced by a 12-man unit, supplied with small arms and one B-40 rocket launcher. He said the reinforcements had been dispatched from provincial headquarters specifically to target the Swift boats.

 

[Todd33]

"Nightline" explained that the intention was to simply find out what the Vietnamese people remember and think of what happened there, permission was granted.

Somehow I doubt everyone in the village and area was a commander. Sorry I missed that one quote, I guess you are right, they are our enemies and should be killed not interviewed.

Villagers say this is what they saw:

"Firing from over here. Firing from over there. Firing from the boat," Vo Thi Vi told "Nightline."

Intersting, considering these people don't know Kerry or O'Neill.

 

[villager]

Originally posted by: Todd33

"Nightline" explained that the intention was to simply find out what the Vietnamese people remember and think of what happened there, permission was granted.

Somehow I doubt everyone in the village and area was a commander. Sorry I missed that one quote, I guess you are right, they are our enemies and should be killed not interviewed.

Villagers say this is what they saw:

"Firing from over here. Firing from over there. Firing from the boat," Vo Thi Vi told "Nightline."

Intersting, considering these people don't know Kerry or O'Neill.

Here somehing very interesting from the same article:
Back in Tran Thoi, villager Nguyen Van Khoai said that about six months ago he was visited by an American who described himself as a Swift boat veteran and told him another American from the Swift boats was running for president of the United States. Nguyen said the man was accompanied by a cameraman.

"They say he didn't do anything to deserve the medal," Nguyen said. "The other day, they came and asked me the questions and I said that the recognition for the medal is up to the U.S.A."

He said that, after they met, the Swift Boat veteran and the cameraman turned around and went back down the river. "Nightline" has not been able to identify the men.

Sounds like the swifties already knew the villagers would sink their story but did not report it after travelling all the way to Viet Nam

 

[cpumaster]

Why is conservative so dead set on believing Kerry lied about his Vietnam experience while strongly defended Bush so-so service record? Come on now, where is the common sense or logic in all this? Conservative suppose to live by set principle & standard and follow them. If you support the troops who went to harm way to protect us, shouldn't you have more respect toward Kerry rather than questioning his experience? You might have something to differ about his conduct after his tour of duty, but don't use that as an excuse to follow your emotion & question something he has done honorably for the country. Debate his anti-war activity, but do it openly instead of hiding behind lies that question his sacrifice...
Look at Bush during the Vietnam war, and then look at Kerry, and think, compare, who has more back-bone and who done something braver & honorable?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Now this is hilarious and if the Left knows better will stop this dead in their tracks.

Quoting the enemy to prove a point?

ok but dont say I didnt warn you

I have no ememy in Vietnam, the war ended maaaan come back to us!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: cpumaster
Why is conservative so dead set on believing Kerry lied about his Vietnam experience while strongly defended Bush so-so service record? Come on now, where is the common sense or logic in all this? Conservative suppose to live by set principle & standard and follow them. If you support the troops who went to harm way to protect us, shouldn't you have more respect toward Kerry rather than questioning his experience? You might have something to differ about his conduct after his tour of duty, but don't use that as an excuse to follow your emotion & question something he has done honorably for the country. Debate his anti-war activity, but do it openly instead of hiding behind lies that question his sacrifice...
Look at Bush during the Vietnam war, and then look at Kerry, and think, compare, who has more back-bone and who done something braver & honorable?

I think conservatives are so big on it because Kerry made a platform of his military service. Bush did not.

Additionally, it would seem Kerry has both overblown and downplayed certain aspects of his service in a revisionist sort of way. He also, unlike Bush, refuses to release all of his service records which would make one believe he is hiding something about his service he is only years later so proud of. Then there's his slights at his fellow soldiers and the lies like the Winter Soldier crap.

John "reporting to duty" Kerry brought this upon himself. Bush's service was questioned over and over by the liberals, yet when the conservatives pose the same sort of questions to Kerry, all of the sudden it's "Who cares what someone did over 30 years ago? Why should Kerry's military service matter now?"

Sorry. Can't have it both ways here. What's good for the goose is good for the other goose.

 

[villager]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: cpumaster
Why is conservative so dead set on believing Kerry lied about his Vietnam experience while strongly defended Bush so-so service record? Come on now, where is the common sense or logic in all this? Conservative suppose to live by set principle & standard and follow them. If you support the troops who went to harm way to protect us, shouldn't you have more respect toward Kerry rather than questioning his experience? You might have something to differ about his conduct after his tour of duty, but don't use that as an excuse to follow your emotion & question something he has done honorably for the country. Debate his anti-war activity, but do it openly instead of hiding behind lies that question his sacrifice...
Look at Bush during the Vietnam war, and then look at Kerry, and think, compare, who has more back-bone and who done something braver & honorable?

I think conservatives are so big on it because Kerry made a platform of his military service. Bush did not.

Additionally, it would seem Kerry has both overblown and downplayed certain aspects of his service in a revisionist sort of way. He also, unlike Bush, refuses to release all of his service records which would make one believe he is hiding something about his service he is only years later so proud of. Then there's his slights at his fellow soldiers and the lies like the Winter Soldier crap.

John "reporting to duty" Kerry brought this upon himself. Bush's service was questioned over and over by the liberals, yet when the conservatives pose the same sort of questions to Kerry, all of the sudden it's "Who cares what someone did over 30 years ago? Why should Kerry's military service matter now?"

Sorry. Can't have it both ways here. What's good for the goose is good for the other goose.

Questioning is one thing, but spreading lies? Is that the standard GOP practice. Democrats have been asking for release of government documents, unlike the GOP which claims all the govt documents are false and makes it all up.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Sorry. Can't have it both ways here. What's good for the goose is good for the other goose.

In that case conservatives need to shut up and support our troops (Kerry) unconditionally.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: villager
Questioning is one thing, but spreading lies? Is that the standard GOP practice. Democrats have been asking for release of government documents, unlike the GOP which claims all the govt documents are false and makes it all up.

Do you mean like the forged documents about Bush that were faxed from a Kinkos in Abilene by a chip-shouldering Democrat?

 

[cpumaster]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

I think conservatives are so big on it because Kerry made a platform of his military service. Bush did not.

Additionally, it would seem Kerry has both overblown and downplayed certain aspects of his service in a revisionist sort of way. He also, unlike Bush, refuses to release all of his service records which would make one believe he is hiding something about his service he is only years later so proud of. Then there's his slights at his fellow soldiers and the lies like the Winter Soldier crap.

John "reporting to duty" Kerry brought this upon himself. Bush's service was questioned over and over by the liberals, yet when the conservatives pose the same sort of questions to Kerry, all of the sudden it's "Who cares what someone did over 30 years ago? Why should Kerry's military service matter now?"

Sorry. Can't have it both ways here. What's good for the goose is good for the other goose.

Well, but Kerry is not exactly making his service his only campaign issue, at least not the most important one. Yet many conservatives tried to make a big deal out of it, as if he has sinned big time. I think in the past, Kerry has always made it known that he is proud of his service and even used it as part of his senate campaign run. Some of the vets on the SWBFT actually help campaign for him in the past.
I believe has has release all of his records, how many more record can you find for one person? Even some of Bush later released record doesn'thave as much meat to me as the already released ones. To me Kerry went to Vietnam, while Bush choose to remain in US while the going get tough, as does Chenney, and that is enough for me to make decision on who has more courage.
Some of the libs might give lines that sounded as if they want to have it both ways, but the core issue still remain the same, and the cold hard fact still there staring at the conservative forever.... you might choose to ignore it, but please don't create lies to change the story....

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: cpumaster

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

I think conservatives are so big on it because Kerry made a platform of his military service. Bush did not.

Additionally, it would seem Kerry has both overblown and downplayed certain aspects of his service in a revisionist sort of way. He also, unlike Bush, refuses to release all of his service records which would make one believe he is hiding something about his service he is only years later so proud of. Then there's his slights at his fellow soldiers and the lies like the Winter Soldier crap.

John "reporting to duty" Kerry brought this upon himself. Bush's service was questioned over and over by the liberals, yet when the conservatives pose the same sort of questions to Kerry, all of the sudden it's "Who cares what someone did over 30 years ago? Why should Kerry's military service matter now?"

Sorry. Can't have it both ways here. What's good for the goose is good for the other goose.

Well, but Kerry is not exactly making his service his only campaign issue, at least not the most important one. Yet many conservatives tried to make a big deal out of it, as if he has sinned big time. I think in the past, Kerry has always made it known that he is proud of his service and even used it as part of his senate campaign run. Some of the vets on the SWBFT actually help campaign for him in the past.
I believe has has release all of his records, how many more record can you find for one person? Even some of Bush later released record doesn'thave as much meat to me as the already released ones. To me Kerry went to Vietnam, while Bush choose to remain in US while the going get tough, as does Chenney, and that is enough for me to make decision on who has more courage.
Some of the libs might give lines that sounded as if they want to have it both ways, but the core issue still remain the same, and the cold hard fact still there staring at the conservative forever.... you might choose to ignore it, but please don't create lies to change the story....

I'm not creating any lies here at all.

Kerry has not released of of his records. He could easily do that by signing a single form, but he won't. If he has nothing to hide, what's the problem?

Kerry was not always proud of his service. His "pride" was restored when he began running for public office and not before that. Maybe that's a coincidence, maybe not.

 

[classy]

We all knew the Swiftboat for Liars were actually liars anyway. These people only recounted that day which is what Kerry and his crew said happened. John O'Neill needs to lose some weight, thats what he needs to be working on.

 

[cpumaster]

Is this not all of his service record?Especially on the vietnam issue?
Kerry record on Factcheck.org

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: villager

Sounds like the swifties already knew the villagers would sink their story but did not report it after travelling all the way to Viet Nam

Or that they have more stuff tucked away to spin as only they can

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: cpumaster
Why is conservative so dead set on believing Kerry lied about his Vietnam experience while strongly defended Bush so-so service record? Come on now, where is the common sense or logic in all this? Conservative suppose to live by set principle & standard and follow them. If you support the troops who went to harm way to protect us, shouldn't you have more respect toward Kerry rather than questioning his experience? You might have something to differ about his conduct after his tour of duty, but don't use that as an excuse to follow your emotion & question something he has done honorably for the country. Debate his anti-war activity, but do it openly instead of hiding behind lies that question his sacrifice...
Look at Bush during the Vietnam war, and then look at Kerry, and think, compare, who has more back-bone and who done something braver & honorable?

conservatives are about values and integrity. atleast they say they are. values applied rather selectively
more simply called hipocrisy i guess.


and the conservatives make military their issue by default. thats why kerry has to tout his. remember clinton and how the conservatives hemmed and hawed about him being a dodger? they think of themselves as the gung ho military rah rah party. it is their identity and they try to paint their opponents as limp wristed wussies that can't fight. this president even calls himself the war president. and now that has come back to bite them. and now they squirm and lie in the most disgusting way. honor the veterans, except those you do not like. if kerry were republican they'd be fawning over him, but he's not, so they denigrate his service. poo poo his inability to find bigger shrapenal to blow through his body, fate being too kind to him. for these fundamental conservatives, against those you oppose, you can stoop to any level to attack, for it is holy war.

and of course it matters. we are at war. what does our candidate know of war?

oh its irrelevant because our candidate hid stateside using the power of his fathers influence