Switching from NV to ATI...

[Rhezuss]

I've decided to switch on the ATI side for the first time. I've read some posts in here and it looks like most of the brands out there are practically the same (Sapphire, HIS, ASUS, genuine ATI, etc).

I'm not used to the brands of ATI cards, always been with nVidia. What should I look for apart from the warranty and cooling?

I always though that ATI was the only way to go when buying an ATI card.

And I saw the X1900GT and the X1900 AIW and it looks like the X1900 AIW performs better than the GT one so i'm guessing that ATI and nVidia have "switch" those letters just for a little teasing?

Last question....X1900 AIW or 7900GT....? The X1900 is 60-80 CAD lower and seem to be slightly better in games.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts!

 

[Munky]

All Ati brands have basically the same cards. I'm not sure about the x1900aiw vs x1900gt, because although the aiw version has 48 pixel shaders vs 36 on the gt, it's clocked much lower, so in the end it may be a toss up between the two.

 

[modn00b]

May I ask what's making you switch?

I'm in the process of spec'ing a new Core2 system. And I keep waffling on the motherboard because I can't choose between video chip makers. I have a "percpetion" that NVidia > ATI. Yet Intel didn't launch their Core2 boards/chipsets with any real commitment to NVidia.

Is my "perception" of NVidia > ATI a convenient, yet ill founded, simplification? I read that SLI > Crossfire, but that may have been very old data. Are they effectively competitive now?

(sorry, worked more with servers in the past. Monochrome 640x480 was good enough. Can't play WoW on it though, LOL.)

Thanks.

 

[Anogar]

I personally have an ATI x1900XTX, but I think that nVidia is a bit better than ATI in the ease of use and compatibility department. Everything just works. That said, similarly performing nVidia cards are a ton more expensive when compared to their ATI counterparts. If you're willing to deal with a bit more hassle for a huge price / performance upgrade, then ATI is the way to go at the moment.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Originally posted by: modn00b
May I ask what's making you switch?

I'm in the process of spec'ing a new Core2 system. And I keep waffling on the motherboard because I can't choose between video chip makers. I have a "percpetion" that NVidia > ATI. Yet Intel didn't launch their Core2 boards/chipsets with any real commitment to NVidia.

Is my "perception" of NVidia > ATI a convenient, yet ill founded, simplification? I read that SLI > Crossfire, but that may have been very old data. Are they effectively competitive now?

(sorry, worked more with servers in the past. Monochrome 640x480 was good enough. Can't play WoW on it though, LOL.)

Thanks.

yes.
ati=nvidia (as a complany)
ati IQ > Nvidia IQ

 

[Rhezuss]

Originally posted by: modn00b
May I ask what's making you switch?

I'm in the process of spec'ing a new Core2 system. And I keep waffling on the motherboard because I can't choose between video chip makers. I have a "percpetion" that NVidia > ATI. Yet Intel didn't launch their Core2 boards/chipsets with any real commitment to NVidia.

Is my "perception" of NVidia > ATI a convenient, yet ill founded, simplification? I read that SLI > Crossfire, but that may have been very old data. Are they effectively competitive now?

(sorry, worked more with servers in the past. Monochrome 640x480 was good enough. Can't play WoW on it though, LOL.)

Thanks.

I'm making the switch simply because I want to try the ATI cards. The only one I tried was the 9800PRO in the old days but since always was nVidia.

Like Anogar said, I really like the easy "plug & play" nVidia offer with their cards. Easy to update and the drivers are always stable.

I saw lots of benhs from Tom's Hardware and Anandtech mostly and they show that the X1900 AIW has better FPS than the 7900GT in most cases. ATI is gaining points the more the months and releases goes. I want to try them out with the X1900 series.

And the prices are really good. Saw the X1900 AIW from Sapphire for 289 CAD, which is 80 CAD under the 7900GT here in Quebec City and only 20 CAD more than a 7600GT, which I got 4-5 months ago.

 

[anandtechrocks]

I've got a X1900 AIW and with a 3rd party cooler it overclocks quite well. However, I'm kind of sick of driver issues with ATI. I'm using ATI Tool to overclock my X1900 (got it to 700/700) but I have so many problems when I try to use any Catalyst driver above 6.2. Their latest driver (6.8) is supposted to give 256MB cards a nice boost, but whenever I game, my monitor just goes blank and forces me to restart. If I use 6.2 I have no problems.

I'm currently switching over to a 7900GT right now. This is what made me do it:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2821&p=4

 

[bunnyfubbles]

driver cleaner FTW...

 

[anandtechrocks]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
driver cleaner FTW...

Was a fresh reformat.

 

[Rhezuss]

Hmmm...just saw the X1900 AIW for 249 CAD!

Think it's a good deal, at Futureshop though.

 

[hmorphone]

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks
I've got a X1900 AIW and with a 3rd party cooler it overclocks quite well. However, I'm kind of sick of driver issues with ATI. I'm using ATI Tool to overclock my X1900 (got it to 700/700) but I have so many problems when I try to use any Catalyst driver above 6.2. Their latest driver (6.8) is supposted to give 256MB cards a nice boost, but whenever I game, my monitor just goes blank and forces me to restart. If I use 6.2 I have no problems.

I'm currently switching over to a 7900GT right now. This is what made me do it:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2821&p=4

I believe your problems may more reflect issues with the current ATItool builds than actual problems with the Catalyst drivers

 

[hmorphone]

Originally posted by: Rhezuss
Hmmm...just saw the X1900 AIW for 249 CAD!

Think it's a good deal, at Futureshop though.

I think you'd be pretty happy with that X1900 AIW. Though it seems like you've spotted a Sapphire, I wasn't aware that there were any AIWs that weren't ATI branded. If you plan on OCing I'd budget a few dollars for aftermarket cooling like a Zalman though. The kind of clocks anandtechrocks's is getting, with aftermarket cooling, would put you around X1900XTX level of performance. Why he wants to downgrade, I don't know

 

[Rhezuss]

Originally posted by: hmorphone

Originally posted by: Rhezuss
Hmmm...just saw the X1900 AIW for 249 CAD!

Think it's a good deal, at Futureshop though.

I think you'd be pretty happy with that X1900 AIW. Though it seems like you've spotted a Sapphire, I wasn't aware that there were any AIWs that weren't ATI branded. If you plan on OCing I'd budget a few dollars for aftermarket cooling like a Zalman though. The kind of clocks anandtechrocks's is getting, with aftermarket cooling, would put you around X1900XTX level of performance. Why he wants to downgrade, I don't know

It's not a sapphire, it's a "genuine" ATI. Here it is:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/prodde...S10079016&catid=10524&logon=&langid=FR

I just wonder the difference between the X1900AIW and the X1900GT. The GT has higher clocks but the AIW have 12 more pixel shaders. Then again, the AIW seems to perform better than the GT.

Which would be better in mid-term gaming....clocks or shaders.

(My guess would be shaders since I can OC the card a bit)

 

[hmorphone]

Originally posted by: Rhezuss

It's not a sapphire, it's a "genuine" ATI. Here it is:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/prodde...S10079016&catid=10524&logon=&langid=FR

I just wonder the difference between the X1900AIW and the X1900GT. The GT has higher clocks but the AIW have 12 more pixel shaders. Then again, the AIW seems to perform better than the GT.

Which would be better in mid-term gaming....clocks or shaders.

(My guess would be shaders since I can OC the card a bit)

Ahhh, okay, I thought it was probably a built by ATI. Now if I could just read French I have a X1900GT and I'm pretty happy with it. I believe you are on the right track though with the X1900 AIW
- X1900 AIW, full set of pipes and shaders, lower clocks
- X1900GT, 3/4 set of pipes and full set of shaders, higher clocks
According to the THG charts the AIW does about the same or better in most of the benchmarks. Of course, that's without overclocking. My X1900GT is a good overclocker, but I think you'll see even bigger gains on the AIW. And when you start OCing, they both need aftermarket cooling. So I stand by what I said before, go for the X1900 AIW, I think you'll be happy with it.

 

[anandtechrocks]

Originally posted by: hmorphone

Originally posted by: Rhezuss
Hmmm...just saw the X1900 AIW for 249 CAD!

Think it's a good deal, at Futureshop though.

I think you'd be pretty happy with that X1900 AIW. Though it seems like you've spotted a Sapphire, I wasn't aware that there were any AIWs that weren't ATI branded. If you plan on OCing I'd budget a few dollars for aftermarket cooling like a Zalman though. The kind of clocks anandtechrocks's is getting, with aftermarket cooling, would put you around X1900XTX level of performance. Why he wants to downgrade, I don't know

Here is how it works:

7900GT overclocked = fast, stable card.
X1900AIW stock = moderately fast, stable card.
X1900AIW overclocked = very fast, but can't play games.

 

[Rhezuss]

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks

Originally posted by: hmorphone

Originally posted by: Rhezuss
Hmmm...just saw the X1900 AIW for 249 CAD!

Think it's a good deal, at Futureshop though.

I think you'd be pretty happy with that X1900 AIW. Though it seems like you've spotted a Sapphire, I wasn't aware that there were any AIWs that weren't ATI branded. If you plan on OCing I'd budget a few dollars for aftermarket cooling like a Zalman though. The kind of clocks anandtechrocks's is getting, with aftermarket cooling, would put you around X1900XTX level of performance. Why he wants to downgrade, I don't know

Here is how it works:

7900GT overclocked = fast, stable card.
X1900AIW stock = moderately fast, stable card.
X1900AIW overclocked = very fast, but can't play games.

X1900AIW overclocked = can't play games? In your case that is

 

[hmorphone]

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks

Here is how it works:

7900GT overclocked = fast, stable card.
X1900AIW stock = moderately fast, stable card.
X1900AIW overclocked = very fast, but can't play games.

You said "If I use 6.2 I have no problems." If that's the case, why not stick with 6.2 for the time being? And I still feel that your problems stem from ATItool. That being said, I wish you well with the 7900GT, enjoy it :beer:

 

[anandtechrocks]

Originally posted by: hmorphone

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks

Here is how it works:

7900GT overclocked = fast, stable card.
X1900AIW stock = moderately fast, stable card.
X1900AIW overclocked = very fast, but can't play games.

You said "If I use 6.2 I have no problems." If that's the case, why not stick with 6.2 for the time being? And I still feel that your problems stem from ATItool. That being said, I wish you well with the 7900GT, enjoy it :beer:

You may be right about ATI Tool, however, I find it is the only way for me to overclock since I need to increase my memory and core voltage to reach those overclocks.

 

[hmorphone]

Originally posted by: anandtechrocks

You may be right about ATI Tool, however, I find it is the only way for me to overclock since I need to increase my memory and core voltage to reach those overclocks.

Good point, I had forgotten about that. There is a new ATItool beta, but I don't think it's stable enough to use yet. Something about the X1*** series cards seems to make writing a good OCing program for them harder than for the X*** series or the Nvidia cards. On the other hand, I guess you can't change the volts in software with the Nvidia cards... sigh. I guess I should be glad I don't have to fiddle with the volts to get my X1900GT OC

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: hmorphone

Originally posted by: Rhezuss

It's not a sapphire, it's a "genuine" ATI. Here it is:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/prodde...S10079016&catid=10524&logon=&langid=FR

I just wonder the difference between the X1900AIW and the X1900GT. The GT has higher clocks but the AIW have 12 more pixel shaders. Then again, the AIW seems to perform better than the GT.

Which would be better in mid-term gaming....clocks or shaders.

(My guess would be shaders since I can OC the card a bit)

Ahhh, okay, I thought it was probably a built by ATI. Now if I could just read French I have a X1900GT and I'm pretty happy with it. I believe you are on the right track though with the X1900 AIW
- X1900 AIW, full set of pipes and shaders, lower clocks
- X1900GT, 3/4 set of pipes and full set of shaders, higher clocks
According to the THG charts the AIW does about the same or better in most of the benchmarks. Of course, that's without overclocking. My X1900GT is a good overclocker, but I think you'll see even bigger gains on the AIW. And when you start OCing, they both need aftermarket cooling. So I stand by what I said before, go for the X1900 AIW, I think you'll be happy with it.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/prodde...gid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10079016&catid=
English link.

For Canadian $$$, that's an extremely good price.

I'd jump on that, since even if you don't like it, FS has a nice 30-day return policy.

 

[imported_Graeme]

Just wondering....did you follow the steps in this link before trying to overclock your card anandtechrocks?

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=450596

I have been reading that symptoms can vary system to system and that it may not be a simple lockup....games/programs can crash etc. One major sticking point seems to be in the change over from 2d to 3d much like when you start up a game. At that point the overclock causes instability and can start having problems.

You might want to take a look at that link and see if its of any help.

On the X1900AIW vs the X1900GT one thing to keep in mind is the driver situation. The AIW has a much larger driver set due to the greater capabilities of the AIW card requiring more drivers/software to manage it. I would keep this in mind when it comes to overclocking.

 

[Rhezuss]

Well lots of feedback in here, really appreciated, thank you everyone.

What bothers me though is some reviews still states the drivers instabilities. I remember, in the old days, that I couldn't run anything with my 9800PRO, not even internet for 5 minutes, it was always crashing.

I don't want this bs happen again but I'd like to give ATI a "second" chance. I know their cards are good but their drivers are mediocre.

And theres the X1900AIW vs. X1900GT "battle" that runs in my thoughts. Graeme has a good point about the weight of the AIW drivers. I'm not an expert overclocker, but I like to get a little more juice from my hardware from time to time, well just the video card since I never and don't want to OC my processor.

I'll keep looking for reviews for those cards. For now, it's X1900AIW vs. X1900GT vs. 7900GT. The X1900s are at the same price here in Quebec, well at least for now since the AIW is on sale at FS and I can get the GT (from Sapphire) for 249CAD anytime.

Oh...just saw while I was writing this that the genuine ATI X1900AIW is 259CAD at a computer shop here...well nice price too.

I'd like a little feedback from the "old timer" ATI users. Stability and everything there is to know about those drivers.

Thanks again!

 

[sisq0kidd]

x1900 AIW is slower than both the x1900gt and 7900gt.

The tuner on the x1900 AIW is crap compared to the older model tuners they used to use (latency).

I've had the x1900 AIW and promptly got rid of it because:

1. It's about as fast as a 7800gt/x1800xl aiw (same specs with the exception of the pixel shaders).
2. It's too slow to push 1920x1200 for me.
3. Tuner sucks.
4. Tuner software sucks. Seriously, why can't they revert back to the 9800aiw days when those aiw drivers were solid?

As for myself, I have never really had any problems with ATI drivers with the exception of the AIW drivers. They are solid now and I've never had a problem with them before.

You may hate CCC though...

 

[Avalon]

I have an X1900AIW, and I'm pretty sure its speeds are more equivalent to a 7800GT or X1800XL at stock. That should put it pretty even or 5% behind the X1900GT.

I'm also having the same problems as Anandtechrocks with it. I could overclock the card up to 600/600 (default is 500/475) with it without artifacts, and 3DMark 05/06 would run fine, but when I played Oblivion with ANY overclock, my monitor would lose video card signal and go black. I had to reboot.

I was using the latest beta of ATiTool to overclock, since ATT said overclocking for my AIW was disabled. I was also at stock voltages, because I couldn't find a way to give the card a light boost. I'm currently running the 6.6 Warcats with ATT. Any suggestions for alternative overclocking/overvolting/getting past that blank screen bug?

 

[Rhezuss]

The more I read the more i'm leaning toward the X1900GT or the 7900GT. The AIW drivers looks to much trouble.

If I go for the X1900GT....Sapphire or ATI?

I hate shopping for computer stuff!