Synthetic Motor oil deal ...

[dud]

I just bought a Lexus SC400 and the previous owner used synthetic oil ... so I decided to continue to do so. I drove down to Autozone and found a very good deal on a Syntec/Filter combo deal and posted it in the Hot Deals section. If this is against forum rules then I humbly submit myself to Moderator chastisement. I just thought that those of us who have expensive cars and use synthetic oils could use a break ... considering where the price of oil/gas is going.

here is the link:


Anandtech link to Syntec deal

 

[M2008S]

youre talking new castrol syntec, iirc it says something about classic cars on the bottle?

syntec has high levels of zinc and other items in it ideal for older cars and old motors (early 80s back probably). it has to do with the way the internals are made, the zinc and etc provides extra coverage and protection for us. neat huh? i know 20w50 says superior performance for classics on the bottle but im not sure about the other grades.

if you want a good synthetic type oil do with something like durablend and a good filter. its actually a semisynthetic, so its make sure youre using the correct weight of oil (5w30, whatever) that lexus recommends, look in the manual. also mobile 1 fully synthetic is a good oil for lexus'. since youre already with fully synth id just go with mobile 1.

 

[zerocool84]

The Mobil 1 filter is great but I don't use syntec. I just wish they would have a deal with with a full synthetic like Mobil 1. This is a great deal otherwise.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
The Mobil 1 filter is great but I don't use syntec. I just wish they would have a deal with with a full synthetic like Mobil 1. This is a great deal otherwise.

Mobile 1 isn't full synthetic.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: zerocool84
The Mobil 1 filter is great but I don't use syntec. I just wish they would have a deal with with a full synthetic like Mobil 1. This is a great deal otherwise.

Mobile 1 isn't full synthetic.

I thought it was the only one that still was. Are any then?

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: zerocool84
The Mobil 1 filter is great but I don't use syntec. I just wish they would have a deal with with a full synthetic like Mobil 1. This is a great deal otherwise.

Mobile 1 isn't full synthetic.

I thought it was the only one that still was. Are any then?

it has been a while since i last looked, but it used to be, then there were some reports of people with chromographs looking at M1 samples and saying they weren't all group 4 oils anymore.
When people tried asking mobil about it, they just gave vague replies like, our oil contains group 4s and other stuff. Who knows now.

 

[fstime]

Mobil 1 is still a synthetic, just a group III, not group IV.

The only group IV you can buy over the shelves at autozone is Castrol Syntec 0W-30 "Made in Germany," not the made in USA stuff.

Very good oil. While Mobil 1 5W-30 is almost as thin as a 20 weight oil, Castrol 0W-30 is almost as thick as a 40 weight at operating temps. The "0W" only refers to the oils weight when cold, flows better (which is good) until in gets up to temp and thickens up.

It has many approvals (VW, BMW, MB, Porsche) and I believe its the only 30 weight approved by Porsche which usually sticks with 40 weight oils.

The Mobil 1 filter works well all around...

 

[dud]

on a side note ... I posted this as a "combo" deal, available at just about any Autozone. I told a friend about this deal ... this frind travels to Germany all the time (he is going in mid Marc, again). He drives a Viper and asked me how much I thought Synthetic (perhaps the expensive "Group IV" oil referred to above was. I said I had no idea.

The answer boggled my mind. As of last week a quart of synthetic oil in Germany is 28 Euros, or about $40 A QUART!

if I lived in Germany I'd by traditional oil before I spent $200 on 5 quarts of this oil.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: dud
on a side note ... I posted this as a "combo" deal, available at just about any Autozone. I told a friend about this deal ... this frind travels to Germany all the time (he is going in mid Marc, again). He drives a Viper and asked me how much I thought Synthetic (perhaps the expensive "Group IV" oil referred to above was. I said I had no idea.

The answer boggled my mind. As of last week a quart of synthetic oil in Germany is 28 Euros, or about $40 A QUART!

if I lived in Germany I'd by traditional oil before I spent $200 on 5 quarts of this oil.

Amsoil is what? $7.50 a quart; and its supposed to be the best stuff out there.

$40 a quart is ridiculous.

 

[CptCrunch]

Amsoil is good stuff, worth the extra money, especially since it is rated for up to 25k miles, depending on how you drive. You can prolly do one oil change per year with amsoil. Have to use their filter though, which I believe is a tad expensive. Overall, worth it in my opinion.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
The Mobil 1 filter is great but I don't use syntec. I just wish they would have a deal with with a full synthetic like Mobil 1. This is a great deal otherwise.

The MObil1 Filter is too restrictive and prohibits good oil flow. Check out BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy) for the results of his filter tests.

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: zerocool84
The Mobil 1 filter is great but I don't use syntec. I just wish they would have a deal with with a full synthetic like Mobil 1. This is a great deal otherwise.

The MObil1 Filter is too restrictive and prohibits good oil flow. Check out BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy) for the results of his filter tests.

No it isn't. The only report I ever remembered reading about which documented that was on the old version of the filter, not the new EP version. Besides, all of those tests were conducted by some "garage" engineer that I really don't trust.

The composition of Mobil 1 is unknown, and we have nothing concrete to prove that it's truly Group III and not Group IV. It's really a moot point anyway, as oils are sold on a performance basis and not composition (not completely).

Also, remember that PAOs are not always superior to Group III. PAOs generally tend to have relatively poor additive solubility, though blending it correctly with ester can help. Still, Group III comes so close to PAO that the gains are often so minuscule that it's hard to justify the expense of PAO.

 

[imported_wonderwrench]

Originally posted by: M2008S
youre talking new castrol syntec, iirc it says something about classic cars on the bottle?

syntec has high levels of zinc and other items in it ideal for older cars and old motors (early 80s back probably). it has to do with the way the internals are made, the zinc and etc provides extra coverage and protection for us. neat huh? i know 20w50 says superior performance for classics on the bottle but im not sure about the other grades.

if you want a good synthetic type oil do with something like durablend and a good filter. its actually a semisynthetic, so its make sure youre using the correct weight of oil (5w30, whatever) that lexus recommends, look in the manual. also mobile 1 fully synthetic is a good oil for lexus'. since youre already with fully synth id just go with mobile 1.

The amount of Zinc in oil has been slowly decreased over the last 10 years or so. It was removed because it can damage catalytic converters and is claimed to be bad for the environment. Today no oil has zinc in it as far as I know. Zinc was a great extreme pressure lubricant that gave great anti wear protection. Semi synthetic oil is a joke, Durablend is only 16% synthetic. You would be better off mixing conventional and synthetic oil in a 3 to 1 ratio your self. It would be cheaper and contain more synthetic oil.

Now Castrol Syntec is not true synthetic oil. Its hydrocracked from conventional base stocks. Exception being Syntec made in Germany is supposed to be true synthetic. Most so called synthetic oils are in reality hydrocracked and not true synthetic. Hydrocracked oil is better oil than normal conventional oil but not as good as a good synthetic. Mobil took Castrol to court over this a few years back. I never heard the outcome but I would guess since most oil on the market that claims to be synthetic is now hydrocracked mobil lost.

Quote from http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php
"This type of oil was less costly to produce than the PAO based synthetics (although it has been effected by the rising petroleum costs of the past few years). Unfortunately the consumer never benefited from the lower manufacturing costs, and it seems the oil manufacturers most likely made a bigger profit from each sale. This has now changed how oil is made and sold, and it's classification. There are five Groups of oils. Group I rarely is used anymore, while Group II is your common petroleum oil. This "hydrocracked" oil is commonly referred to as a Group III oil, while the PAO synthetics are a Group IV. Group V oils do exist, but are uncommon, and typically not often used for automotive use."

Now is using synthetic oil even worth it? IMO if you get a different car every few years, no its not because you will never see the benefits that using synthetic oil can give. Exception being if you live in an extreme climate. If you keep your cars for as long as possible or drive in extreme climates using systhetic oils can be of benefit.

If you buy a vehicle that has ran synthetic oil you should have no problem switching back to conventional oil. Should you switch back see above.

From my experience Amsoil is about the best synthetic oil and Mobil 1 is second best.
Mobil 1 is easier to find and is what I use in every 4 cycle engine I own. I do not run extended drain intervals as claimed can be done by Mobil and Amsoil. I change oil every 6K or every spring, which ever comes first.

 

[M2008S]

Originally posted by: wonderwrench
The amount of Zinc in oil has been slowly decreased over the last 10 years or so. It was removed because it can damage catalytic converters and is claimed to be bad for the environment. Today no oil has zinc in it as far as I know. Zinc was a great extreme pressure lubricant that gave great anti wear protection. Semi synthetic oil is a joke, Durablend is only 16% synthetic. You would be better off mixing conventional and synthetic oil in a 3 to 1 ratio your self. It would be cheaper and contain more synthetic oil.
Now Castrol Syntec is not true synthetic oil. Its hydrocracked from conventional base stocks. Exception being Syntec made in Germany is supposed to be true synthetic. Most so called synthetic oils are in reality hydrocracked and not true synthetic. Hydrocracked oil is better oil than normal conventional oil but not as good as a good synthetic. Mobil took Castrol to court over this a few years back. I never heard the outcome but I would guess since most oil on the market that claims to be synthetic is now hydrocracked mobil lost.

Quote from http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php
"This type of oil was less costly to produce than the PAO based synthetics (although it has been effected by the rising petroleum costs of the past few years). Unfortunately the consumer never benefited from the lower manufacturing costs, and it seems the oil manufacturers most likely made a bigger profit from each sale. This has now changed how oil is made and sold, and it's classification. There are five Groups of oils. Group I rarely is used anymore, while Group II is your common petroleum oil. This "hydrocracked" oil is commonly referred to as a Group III oil, while the PAO synthetics are a Group IV. Group V oils do exist, but are uncommon, and typically not often used for automotive use."

Now is using synthetic oil even worth it? IMO if you get a different car every few years, no its not because you will never see the benefits that using synthetic oil can give. Exception being if you live in an extreme climate. If you keep your cars for as long as possible or drive in extreme climates using systhetic oils can be of benefit.

If you buy a vehicle that has ran synthetic oil you should have no problem switching back to conventional oil. Should you switch back see above.

From my experience Amsoil is about the best synthetic oil and Mobil 1 is second best.
Mobil 1 is easier to find and is what I use in every 4 cycle engine I own. I do not run extended drain intervals as claimed can be done by Mobil and Amsoil. I change oil every 6K or every spring, which ever comes first.

castrol syntec 20w50 has a higher than .12 weight percent zinc level which is more zinc than most regular oils. true it has been removed TO AN EXTENT but zddp (zinc, phospherous, is present probably at least around .05 weight percent. but syntec has high levels of zddp. reg oils have about .10 weight percent or less. the high zinc content is good for high revving engines and older engines with flat tappet cams and etc. read the bottle. mobile 1 is good for the money and the protection, so what if its not 100% fully entirely synthetic. old cars need old type oil. new cars need new type oil. what makes synthetic being partial or group what the hell ever is the fact that its not a plain REGULAR conventional oil. the main subject is switching to synthetic. i never read fully synthetic or any other parameters, i just just retelling the facts of castrol syntec and how it has higher zddp and how its bad for new cars and good for old, so maybe he should think mobile 1 or the like.


quote from nordicgroup

API Certification, Phosphorus & ZDDP
Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters.

Amsoil
Amsoil actually makes some very good products. The negative image of Amsoil is due to their distribution method (MLM) and their marketing approach. If Amsoil products were competitively priced with Mobil 1 and other synthetics, and if I could buy them in a store, I would not hesitate to use their XL-7500 synthetic as opposed to Mobil 1. What upsets me about Amsoil is that they didn't disclose until recently (and then it was by accident) the real reason that their oils (except for XL-7500) are not API certified. In the past they came up with all sorts of bizarre excuses about the reason for their lack of API certification and this greatly contributed to the distrust that people have of the company.

 

[DVad3r]

I got a 2001 Lexus ES300 and use full synthetic 5W-30. I use the Quaker State Advanced Q one. My manual says I gotta change the oil every 8000 km but I go 10,000-12,000. I change the filter every oil change also and use premium gas. Good? Bad? Should I try something new?

 

[DVad3r]

I usuaully buy the oil on special too at Canadian Tire, 4.4 liters for around 24 bucks plus tax.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: thecritic

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: zerocool84
The Mobil 1 filter is great but I don't use syntec. I just wish they would have a deal with with a full synthetic like Mobil 1. This is a great deal otherwise.

The MObil1 Filter is too restrictive and prohibits good oil flow. Check out BITOG (Bob Is The Oil Guy) for the results of his filter tests.

No it isn't. The only report I ever remembered reading about which documented that was on the old version of the filter, not the new EP version. Besides, all of those tests were conducted by some "garage" engineer that I really don't trust.

The composition of Mobil 1 is unknown, and we have nothing concrete to prove that it's truly Group III and not Group IV. It's really a moot point anyway, as oils are sold on a performance basis and not composition (not completely).

Also, remember that PAOs are not always superior to Group III. PAOs generally tend to have relatively poor additive solubility, though blending it correctly with ester can help. Still, Group III comes so close to PAO that the gains are often so minuscule that it's hard to justify the expense of PAO.

I don't know what version he tested but my tests showed similar results to his. I actually use the older style supertech filters myself as they are VERY similar in construction to the AC Delco Gold filters. The new batch doesn't seem to be of the same build quality so I'm looking for a replacement!

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: GillbotI don't know what version he tested but my tests showed similar results to his. I actually use the older style supertech filters myself as they are VERY similar in construction to the AC Delco Gold filters. The new batch doesn't seem to be of the same build quality so I'm looking for a replacement!

I don't understand why you are concerned about the newer design. I assume that you are using the Ecore version of the filters?

If so, the Mobil 1 filters have never been of the Ecore design (and won't be for the forseeable future).

I don't think any of us having the correct instruments to do adequate testing to conclude that the new design is inferior to the old one. Same goes for backyard engineers concluding that paper endcaps are of a lesser quality than a metal or thermally bonded one.

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: wonderwrench
The amount of Zinc in oil has been slowly decreased over the last 10 years or so. It was removed because it can damage catalytic converters and is claimed to be bad for the environment. Today no oil has zinc in it as far as I know. Zinc was a great extreme pressure lubricant that gave great anti wear protection. Semi synthetic oil is a joke, Durablend is only 16% synthetic. You would be better off mixing conventional and synthetic oil in a 3 to 1 ratio your self. It would be cheaper and contain more synthetic oil.

Now Castrol Syntec is not true synthetic oil. Its hydrocracked from conventional base stocks. Exception being Syntec made in Germany is supposed to be true synthetic. Most so called synthetic oils are in reality hydrocracked and not true synthetic. Hydrocracked oil is better oil than normal conventional oil but not as good as a good synthetic. Mobil took Castrol to court over this a few years back. I never heard the outcome but I would guess since most oil on the market that claims to be synthetic is now hydrocracked mobil lost.

Quote from http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php
"This type of oil was less costly to produce than the PAO based synthetics (although it has been effected by the rising petroleum costs of the past few years). Unfortunately the consumer never benefited from the lower manufacturing costs, and it seems the oil manufacturers most likely made a bigger profit from each sale. This has now changed how oil is made and sold, and it's classification. There are five Groups of oils. Group I rarely is used anymore, while Group II is your common petroleum oil. This "hydrocracked" oil is commonly referred to as a Group III oil, while the PAO synthetics are a Group IV. Group V oils do exist, but are uncommon, and typically not often used for automotive use."

If you read my earlier post, Group III oils have done nearly as well as the Group IV (PAO) oils, if not better. PAOs give you a slight advantage (maybe a few degrees) on the high temperature and low temperature performance, but generally is not worth the added expense. In addition, Group V (ester) is found in automotive uses. Group IV generally has very poor additive solubility (going back to why Group III can sometimes be superior), which is why some ester must be blended with Group IV to solve the problem.

Also, most oils still contain some Zinc. It is slowly being phased in favor of other, more advanced additives. The new SM oils do a fine job of wear protection in most cars made within the last 20 ?? years. I'd only be concerned about the Zinc levels if I was driving a 60s muscle car.

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: DVad3r
I got a 2001 Lexus ES300 and use full synthetic 5W-30. I use the Quaker State Advanced Q one. My manual says I gotta change the oil every 8000 km but I go 10,000-12,000. I change the filter every oil change also and use premium gas. Good? Bad? Should I try something new?

That engine is extremely hard on oil. The 1MZ-FE is not very tolerant of people going slightly over the recommended service interval (which is why there were sludge complaints for a while), so I'd keep your intervals around 8,000 KM.

Take care of that engine, and it'll last you a very long time. I have a friend with 500,000 KM on his 1MZ-FE in his '00 Sienna.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: thecritic

Originally posted by: GillbotI don't know what version he tested but my tests showed similar results to his. I actually use the older style supertech filters myself as they are VERY similar in construction to the AC Delco Gold filters. The new batch doesn't seem to be of the same build quality so I'm looking for a replacement!

I don't understand why you are concerned about the newer design. I assume that you are using the Ecore version of the filters?

If so, the Mobil 1 filters have never been of the Ecore design (and won't be for the forseeable future).

I don't think any of us having the correct instruments to do adequate testing to conclude that the new design is inferior to the old one. Same goes for backyard engineers concluding that paper endcaps are of a lesser quality than a metal or thermally bonded one.

Speak for yourself. I have access to a full oil analysis lab and we routinely test oils and filters for all types of industries.

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: Gillbot
Speak for yourself. I have access to a full oil analysis lab and we routinely test oils and filters for all types of industries.

Fair enough, though may I ask what you consider to be restrictive?

Are you an oil filter engineer? Champs makes a lot of filters for AC Delco and I'm quite certain that they are aware of OEM requirements for oil flow.

 

[Arkaign]

Any advice on synthetic oil for a 2008 Ford Focus? It's a 16V DOHC 2.0L I4, Duratec, I think it's a Mazda design. Currently has ~1500 miles on the oil it came with, getting ready to flush/fill with synthetic + some kind of decent filter.

Would love to hear recommendation. Was thinking Amsoil, but man it's hard to find.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Any advice on synthetic oil for a 2008 Ford Focus? It's a 16V DOHC 2.0L I4, Duratec, I think it's a Mazda design. Currently has ~1500 miles on the oil it came with, getting ready to flush/fill with synthetic + some kind of decent filter.

Would love to hear recommendation. Was thinking Amsoil, but man it's hard to find.

Only 1,500 miles? I highely doubt the manual reccomends doing the first oil change at 1,500 miles, probably more like 5,000 miles.

The first oil change is very importent, do it at the right time as specified in the manual.

As for which oil to use, Penzoil Platinum has been popular lately as a pick over Mobil 1. (Both are good otc oils).

If you can find the German 0W-30 Castrol at Autozone, that would be good too assuming the Ford reccomends a 30 weight oil; I really don't know.


Your not going to find Amsoil at any stores, your only option is online.

 

[thecritic]

Ford recently upped their recommendation to every 7500 miles for the 2007 and newer vehicles. There's no need to service it before then, unless it has been a year since your last service.