Syria is an absolute disaster *Update 5/17*

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2timer

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2012
1,803
1
0
This will be my third time asking a question you insist on not answering: Why do you believe these rebels are any better than Assad? Why do you think Syria will be better for the people?

Since you demand that I answer what is already blatantly obvious to those in the highest seats of our government, I will. The rebel fighters include factions that want self determination and popular rule. Their ranks include younger, idealistic Syrians who want Assad's clearly brutal, corrupt government overthrown. These aren't the Taliban or Al-Qaeda, mind you. Does that make sense enough for you?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
How is it a win-win, when thousands of civilians have died in the civil war up to this point?

Given your questionable support for a bloody war, I'm sure this story of a teenage boy being tortured by Assad's henchmen for 24 days must warm your heart.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oody-genocide-slogans-sprayed-schoolyard.html

You realize it's usually expensive and politically complicated to kill people who hate America, right? These people are killing each other for free. Zero fucks given.
 

2timer

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2012
1,803
1
0
You realize it's usually expensive and politically complicated to kill people who hate America , right? These people are killing each other for free. Zero fucks given.

Do you understand what a stereotype is, or is that concept too large for your tiny brain to grasp? Not everyone who lives in the Middle East hates America. For you to generalize so much makes you clearly ignorant. :whiste:
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Do you understand what a stereotype is, or is that concept too large for your tiny brain to grasp? Not everyone who lives in the Middle East hates America. For you to generalize so much makes you clearly ignorant. :whiste:

If they don't now, they will eventually.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Hey look, Racan can link to a URL. Good job Racan, don't try to analyze it at all. No, it will just be more red meat for the fact-twisting nuts.

What analysis is needed.

Read between the lines or the lines themselves.

IF Syria makes any gains; the rebels will retaliate by doing ethnic cleansing (if they are not already)

They are making threats in such that
Support us and do not support Assad

Apparently ethnic cleansing is OK from your POV as long as the government is removed
 

2timer

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2012
1,803
1
0
What analysis is needed.

Read between the lines or the lines themselves.

IF Syria makes any gains; the rebels will retaliate by doing ethnic cleansing (if they are not already)

They are making threats in such that
Support us and do not support Assad

Apparently ethnic cleansing is OK from your POV as long as the government is removed

Nope. You've got your facts mixed up. A headline is meant to grab attention, it's purposefully sensational.

I did read between the lines, and I didn't see any quote from an FSA leader directly stating a plan to commit ethnic cleansing, do you?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Since you demand that I answer what is already blatantly obvious to those in the highest seats of our government, I will. The rebel fighters include factions that want self determination and popular rule. Their ranks include younger, idealistic Syrians who want Assad's clearly brutal, corrupt government overthrown. These aren't the Taliban or Al-Qaeda, mind you. Does that make sense enough for you?

Such was proclaimed in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt.

One shade of black was exchanged for another.

Have the people of those countries done any better.

AQ is involved with the Syrian rebels
Look at the Muslim Brotherhood - what gains they have since made/done for Egypt.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Nope. You've got your facts mixed up. A headline is meant to grab attention, it's purposefully sensational.

I did read between the lines, and I didn't see any quote from an FSA leader directly stating a plan to commit ethnic cleansing, do you?

Communities inhabited by Shiite Muslims and President Bashar al-Assad&#8217;s Alawite minority will be &#8220;wiped off the map&#8221; if the strategic city of Al-Qusair in central Syria falls to government troops, rebel forces said.

&#8220;We don&#8217;t want this to happen, but it will be a reality imposed on everyone,&#8221; Colonel Abdel-Hamid Zakaria, a spokesman for the Free Syrian Army in Turkey, told Al-Arabiya television yesterday. &#8220;It&#8217;s going to be an open, sectarian, bloody war to the end.&#8221;

Apparently Zakaria is not a FSA leader; just a spokesman who has no authority to say anything. /sarcasm

What do you call wiping specific communities off the map?

And only if those communities are Shites?


<snip>
I didn't see any quote from an FSA leader directly stating a plan to commit ethnic cleansing, do you?

This was the first two paragraphs. How difficult is it to spot them?


quote == statement - check

FSA leader - spokesman - check

ethnic cleansing - wipe out based on religion - check
 
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2timer

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2012
1,803
1
0
Let me explain what I think about this story.

First of all, the direct quote from the leader *never directly states* that he intends to commit an "ethnic cleansing." Directly, as in "I will do [this and that]. Given that the *direct* quote of 'wiped off the map' is attributed to the very general 'rebel forces,' it's clear that no FSA leader ever said that, and the report is playing words for shock effect. I think what happened is some random Syrian rebel in a YouTube video made some crazy statement, and Zakaria is probably just responding to a question about it.

It's like when American Marines urinated on the corpses of dead Iraqis. If a few soldiers say or do something reckless, is their action attributed to the commander? I don't believe so.

That's exactly what I think about this story. Lots of quotes taken out of context, but not really the same as direct facts.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
That's a different subject and not going to address it here, thanks anyway.



Appeasement? Who said anything about appeasement? This is about the ethics of ending a civil war and the slaughter of thousands of civilians. This has nothing to do with appeasement, there.is a crises going on, and Russia and China are morally and ethically in the absolute wrong.

In case anyone missed this.

Assad stays in power, the war goes on, and Obama joins in Russia and China in being morally and ethically in the absolute wrong, except you approve now of leaving Assad in power and the war go on.

Delicious.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Apparently Zakaria is not a FSA leader; just a spokesman who has no authority to say anything. /sarcasm

What do you call wiping specific communities off the map?

And only if those communities are Shites?

This was the first two paragraphs. How difficult is it to spot them?

quote == statement - check

FSA leader - spokesman - check

ethnic cleansing - wipe out based on religion - check
WOW!

One enduring thing about the Middle East is the extremely low bar for being the good guy.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
Isn't it more likely that they want to go to war for some nefarious unarticulated purpose, and that the russians know this and have used public opinion to force obama to postpone while helping secure syria?
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126
New twist, rebels fighting each other. FSA vs ISIS. So now we have a 3-way war. Might be better for the FSA since now they aren't linked with the Islamist. Though from what I hear the ISIS is a more effective fighting force than the FSA.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
Syriasly unsurprising turn of events. But fascinating. Oh syria. What's behind this? Surely it's orchestrated?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
The infighting goes well beyond just three distinct factions, and the infighting is certainly not a recent development.

Even the multiple AQ-affiliated groups have fought with one another during the last two years.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
The infighting goes well beyond just three distinct factions, and the infighting is certainly not a recent development.

Even the multiple AQ-affiliated groups have fought with one another during the last two years.

And that's another problem. Right now everyone there seems intent on hitting the other. Once we set foot in Syria they will stop and become allies and fight us, with the Syrian people still screwed. If I feel sympathy for any (and I do) it's them. There is no one with means who stands for them.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
And that's another problem. Right now everyone there seems intent on hitting the other. Once we set foot in Syria they will stop and become allies and fight us, with the Syrian people still screwed. If I feel sympathy for any (and I do) it's them. There is no one with means who stands for them.
That's entirely possible. To Obama's credit, he did try to stand with the Syria people; we wouldn't let him because (A) he didn't have a strategy that makes sense and (B) we're war-weary. But even if we had stood with the Syrian people, the only way we have to help is by dropping bombs and missiles, and even if we bomb the right people, the Syrian people's problem is not a lack of bombs and missiles falling on them.

The old saw "We had to destroy the village to save it" sounds funny, but it really sucks if you're living in the village at the time.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
The infighting goes well beyond just three distinct factions, and the infighting is certainly not a recent development.

Even the multiple AQ-affiliated groups have fought with one another during the last two years.

If certain groups didn't manage to control the oil early on, the entire middle east would look like this.
 
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