****System Buyer's Guide****NEW UPDATE 12/01

[jpeyton]

I've heard good stuff about PDP lately, for people looking at fast timings for less money than OCZ, Corsair, or Crucial.

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Lots of positive user reviews, and fairly inexpensive for 2-3-2-5 and 2-2-2-5 PC3200 memory.

Getting single channel or dual channel memory depends on what mobo you end up with; Socket 754 boards don't support dual channel, while Socket 939 boards do.

The Ballistix are good too; they get great reviews everywhere. If you have the money, go for it. Corsair XMS Low Latency is another good option if you have the money, as is OCZ EL Platinum.

The whole DDR400 vs. DDR500 debate is a moot issue to me. I personally think DDR500 RAM is just DDR400 that they "guarantee" to run at a higher FSB at higher latencies. In my opinion, if you have good memory that will run DDR400 at low latencies, it will almost assuredly run DDR500 at higher latencies.

 

[Ardan]

Yes, I know that:roll:

I didn't point that out because, hey, every anandtech regular reader should know by now

Yeah I decided to go with either Crucial's Ballistix 1x512Mb DDR400 or something TCCD-based like PQI's turbo series of RAM reviewed on anandtech quite recently. Then 2 weeks from now i'll buy an OEM 3400+, Silent Boost and the EPoX motherboard (8K3ADJ or whatever the model # is) unless I find something better to choose.

I'm really leaning towards the Ballistix ram.

 

[jpeyton]

If you can get TCCD, get it. The guys at xtremesystem.org swear by that stuff now that BH5 is a collector's item.

 

[Ardan]

Do you suppose, memory-wise, it would be safer to go with a Socket 939/Winchester core CPU? You see....I've been told some ram has troubles with Socket 754 motherboards, is this still true?

My decision is whether I should get Socket 939 90nm 3000+ and overclock it, or if I should go Socket 754 and go with a 3400+ so that I'm not doing such an aggressive amount of overclocking. I will probably go with Ballistix even if there are good TCCD chips out there, because I have always been a loyal (and happy) Crucial customer and my buddies have had fabulous experiences with the Ballistix RAM as well.

I will most likely choose one of those two boards you posted as being good overclockers (if I go with S754), because apparently everyone else online agrees . Well I plan to upgrade in about 2 weeks, so I have plenty of time to think about it anyways.:beer:

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Ardan
Yes, I know that:roll:

I didn't point that out because, hey, every anandtech regular reader should know by now

Yeah I decided to go with either Crucial's Ballistix 1x512Mb DDR400 or something TCCD-based like PQI's turbo series of RAM reviewed on anandtech quite recently. Then 2 weeks from now i'll buy an OEM 3400+, Silent Boost and the EPoX motherboard (8K3ADJ or whatever the model # is) unless I find something better to choose.

I'm really leaning towards the Ballistix ram.

I would advise against getting the Silent Boost. Thermaltake may make OK PSU's but evewrything else is horrible. The Silentboost is not silent and doesn't cool nearly as well as a Thermalright or Zalman with a Panaflo fan. Thermaltake is flashy over quality.

IMO Crucial ballistix is hands down one of the best memory modules out there. TCCD chips are good and according to the review are better for the A64, but still the ballistix are very high quality RAM.

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Also i posted at the beginning and i think Jpeyton is doing an awesome job. However that MAxline III supports NCQ, which is useless as Nforce 3 chipsets are recommended which offer no support for it. You might want to consider revising that... or just leave it on there and make a note below it.

Nice Job!!

-Kevin

 

[Ardan]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I would advise against getting the Silent Boost. Thermaltake may make OK PSU's but evewrything else is horrible. The Silentboost is not silent and doesn't cool nearly as well as a Thermalright or Zalman with a Panaflo fan. Thermaltake is flashy over quality.

IMO Crucial ballistix is hands down one of the best memory modules out there. TCCD chips are good and according to the review are better for the A64, but still the ballistix are very high quality RAM.

-Kevin

Well I have already decided on the Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu cooler instead before you posted, but thanks for the tip anyways. I have used thermalright before, actually. I use a Thermalright SLK-800A in this system with a Panaflo fan and everyone knows its a fantastic combination. From a friend's experience, however, I know that the system I want doesn't require a tremendous amount to cool properly. Mainly because of the room (68-70 degrees no matter what time of the year), the case (2x120mm fans--1 rear and 1 front) and the processor. I do agree, the Zalman is a MUCH better choice and comes more highly recommended. If you check it out on Newegg, it has an average rating of 5 stars out of 132 voters. It is only about a few bucks more than the Silent Boost as well!

Yeah thats what I was trying to figure out. I know that the TCCD chips are good and that Crucial's Ballistix are good, no doubt, but I can't figure out if I should be going for the TCCD instead. Nobody seems to know that for sure (what can you say? both are great), but I do like this PQI Turbo ram on Newegg for a good price. It is also the same stick that was reviewed on anandtech which did pretty well. You know anything about how well it runs?

 

[Gamingphreek]

Oh sry

Anyways i still wouldn't get the silent boost. He might as well stay with a stock cooler or just get a Speeze or something. That thermaltake is going to be loud, and it isn't going to cool much better than the Stock cooler.

I dont have anything against PQI. They are new, so not too mature yet but hey i would buy it but i dont need it . Well the Ballistix are much more expensive and OC just as well only they are on different chips. If they made like Rev2. Ballistix off of the TCCD chips im sure it would outperform everything else (based on what they did with the first gen). Im sure the PQI will be fine but for bragging rights and/or just super high quality name brand stuff the Ballistix are waht your looking for.

-Kevin

 

[Ardan]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Oh sry

Anyways i still wouldn't get the silent boost. He might as well stay with a stock cooler or just get a Speeze or something. That thermaltake is going to be loud, and it isn't going to cool much better than the Stock cooler.

I dont have anything against PQI. They are new, so not too mature yet but hey i would buy it but i dont need it . Well the Ballistix are much more expensive and OC just as well only they are on different chips. If they made like Rev2. Ballistix off of the TCCD chips im sure it would outperform everything else (based on what they did with the first gen). Im sure the PQI will be fine but for bragging rights and/or just super high quality name brand stuff the Ballistix are waht your looking for.

-Kevin

Okay, okay I get it about the silent boost don't WORRY I don't plan on buying it .

I was talking to someone online from here a few minutes ago that mentioned that he had better performance on his Socket 754 with the Ballistix RAM. Also, others have said that it would be best to go with Ballistix since Micron is more compatible, and since the performance/OC difference is negligible, its just simply the safest route. That aside, I found out that there is a 4% coupon on the Ballistix RAM this week! After the coupon/discount thing, I would be ordering a 512mb stick for $125 roughly. Thats cheaper than the PQI, which is $130 + $4.99 shipping. Also, Crucial has free 2-day shipping for purchases $40 and higher.

About the fan, I just simply don't prefer the same route as last time. I obviously got great performance from the combo, but this time around it just isn't my thing . Sounds like the Zalman one mentioned here performs VERY well. But is it compatible with every motherboard for the Socket 754?

 

[Mendoza13]

Absolutely great post. The most help I have ever had when building my own:

I just purchased this system:

1 x (80704-R) AMD Athlon 64 3400+ Processor Socket 754, 512KB Cache Retail *** Free 2nd Day *** @ $220.00

CASE ANTEC|SLK3700-BQE BK 350W RET (Qty=1,Price=$75.00)
MB nFORCE3-250GB EP-8KDA3J EPOX RTL (Qty=1,Price=$73.00)
DDR CRSR 512MB X2 KIT|VS1GBKIT400 (Qty=1,Price=$157.00)
HD 160GB|SAMSUNG SP1614C 8MB 72R % (Qty=1,Price=$92.00)
DVD+-RW OPTORITE|DD0405 BG/BK RTL (Qty=1,Price=$48.00)

1 x (370488) Thermaltake A1838 Venus Silent Boost K8 Cooler Retail ***Free 2nd Day*** @ $27.95
1 x (292003) Chaintech AV710 VIA ENVY 24PT Sound Card Retail *** Free 2nd Day *** @ $29.99

All I need now is a graphics card. My question is simple. I have a 9800 pro. Is it good enough? How much better are those 6800's you listed? How much better is the 6800OC over the 6800GT, is it worth my additional 120 bucks?

Followup, will this memory prevent overclocking?

Thanks for the help. =)
-Doza

 

[Ardan]

Originally posted by: Mendoza13
Absolutely great post. The most help I have ever had when building my own:

I just purchased this system:

1 x (80704-R) AMD Athlon 64 3400+ Processor Socket 754, 512KB Cache Retail *** Free 2nd Day *** @ $220.00

CASE ANTEC|SLK3700-BQE BK 350W RET (Qty=1,Price=$75.00)
MB nFORCE3-250GB EP-8KDA3J EPOX RTL (Qty=1,Price=$73.00)
DDR CRSR 512MB X2 KIT|VS1GBKIT400 (Qty=1,Price=$157.00)
HD 160GB|SAMSUNG SP1614C 8MB 72R % (Qty=1,Price=$92.00)
DVD+-RW OPTORITE|DD0405 BG/BK RTL (Qty=1,Price=$48.00)

1 x (370488) Thermaltake A1838 Venus Silent Boost K8 Cooler Retail ***Free 2nd Day*** @ $27.95
1 x (292003) Chaintech AV710 VIA ENVY 24PT Sound Card Retail *** Free 2nd Day *** @ $29.99

All I need now is a graphics card. My question is simple. I have a 9800 pro. Is it good enough? How much better are those 6800's you listed? How much better is the 6800OC over the 6800GT, is it worth my additional 120 bucks?

Followup, will this memory prevent overclocking?

Thanks for the help. =)
-Doza

the Value Select can overclock a tad bit (in surprising ways), but the ultimate for overclocking on your platform is the Crucial Ballistix RAM or sticks with Samsung's "TCCD" chips on them (like the PQI Turbo 2-2-2-5 DDR400, or the OCZ Platinum Revision 2). That memory CAN overclock though, just not as well as the top ones.

That depends on what games you want to run. I have a 9600XT 128Mb and I can run Doom III at 1024x768 in medium/high settings (no FSAA, of course) and it is perfectly smooth on a non-mobile 2500+ @ 2.2Ghz (goes higher of course...and it's multipliers are unlocked!). I have played CS Source as well, and have done that HL2 stress test and it also runs well and looks good. Personally, that should tell you how well your 9800 Pro would perform. I think you'll be just fine, and if I was you I would hold on to the 9800 pro and then budget for a nice 6800GT or whatever down the line. From what I've heard, the 6800GT is a nice value and many people say that, while the 6800OC is excellent, it isn't worth spending $120 extra to get it over your other choice. I'm sure someone with either one of those cards could give you a more accurate (since they use it) opinion on that, however.

On another subject related to your HSF purchase, does anyone have that Silent Boost K8 in operation? I know Anandtech uses it in some articles, but i'm curious about how well it cools when you overclock. Everyone and their brother tells me the Zalman CNPS7000A-Cu (or the B-Cu model) is a better choice because it cools better and is quieter, but really how much more cool is it? I don't really have the time right now to install that backplate in the kit for the Zalman, would much rather take advantage of how easy it is to install the Silent Boost K8. That and this room never goes above 65-68 F and the case has very good airflow with the adjustible 120mm front fan and rear 120mm fan.

 

[Mendoza13]

the Value Select can overclock a tad bit (in surprising ways), but the ultimate for overclocking on your platform is the Crucial Ballistix RAM or sticks with Samsung's "TCCD" chips on them (like the PQI Turbo 2-2-2-5 DDR400, or the OCZ Platinum Revision 2). That memory CAN overclock though, just not as well as the top ones.

That depends on what games you want to run. I have a 9600XT 128Mb and I can run Doom III at 1024x768 in medium/high settings (no FSAA, of course) and it is perfectly smooth on a non-mobile 2500+ @ 2.2Ghz (goes higher of course...and it's multipliers are unlocked!). I have played CS Source as well, and have done that HL2 stress test and it also runs well and looks good. Personally, that should tell you how well your 9800 Pro would perform. I think you'll be just fine, and if I was you I would hold on to the 9800 pro and then budget for a nice 6800GT or whatever down the line. From what I've heard, the 6800GT is a nice value and many people say that, while the 6800OC is excellent, it isn't worth spending $120 extra to get it over your other choice. I'm sure someone with either one of those cards could give you a more accurate (since they use it) opinion on that, however.

On another subject related to your HSF purchase, does anyone have that Silent Boost K8 in operation? I know Anandtech uses it in some articles, but i'm curious about how well it cools when you overclock. Everyone and their brother tells me the Zalman CNPS7000A-Cu (or the B-Cu model) is a better choice because it cools better and is quieter, but really how much more cool is it? I don't really have the time right now to install that backplate in the kit for the Zalman, would much rather take advantage of how easy it is to install the Silent Boost K8. That and this room never goes above 65-68 F and the case has very good airflow with the adjustible 120mm front fan and rear 120mm fan.

Thanks for the input. I have decided that I will hold on to my 9800 pro for now. I'll mainly be playing EQ2 and WoW.. (not a big FPS fan, *gasp*). I'd still like to overclock my machine to get the best bang for the buck. I just hope the memory wont hold me back too much, but considering that decent overclocking memory is twice as much, it doesn't seem worth it, considering cost/return. Unless there is a cheaper alternative for overclocking memory thats near the price of the Value Select?

I'll let you know about the fan too. I did a bit of reseach on it, and the reviews in several places says that the Silent Boost is fine for overclocking. The room I'll be using it doesn't get much higher than 68. And I plan on creating a "windtunnel" in my box anyway, putting in as many fans as I can.

What the best idea for fan placement? Two in front blowing in, PS pointing out, and another rear fan pointing out? (i just need to make sure i dont blow in more air than I am blowing out, correct?)

 

[imported_Kensai]

Maybe you could stick a summary in? (As someone else said before me.)

 

[Satchels]

Ok im trying to get ready for the barrage of pc games coming down the pipe line so I want to update something on my computer. Here are my choices

I have a AMD 2200+ which I would update to 3000+ (as far as MOBO will allow not switching MOBOs yet)

I have 3200 512 Ram which I would put another 3200 512 in to get 1GB(3200 most MOBO would allow)

I have 2 old HDs(at least 3-4 years) in there one 5400 rpm 10gb the other 7200 rpm 20 gb or 40 gb(dont remember) both are old both came from OEM systems so no telling the cache size probably 2mb not sure what I would update to I guess an up to date 7200 rpm drive with 8 mb cache (HD gb size isnt a worry cause this isnt my production machine so anything on here is a few games and maybe the OS)

btw my MOBO is a Asus A7N8X regular no SATA and not bothering with raid for it.

So which would u upgrade all 3 are around or a little more than 100 dollars

Pls any opinion is helpful

btw i'll be buying halflife 2 definetly and either EQ2 or WOW after the upgrade and what ever else comes out this year (bloodlines anyone)

THANKS IN ADVANCE

 

[Ardan]

Thats a tough choice, but I think I would update the HD primarily. You said one of them is a 5400 rpm drive and the other is aroudn 20 or 40gb. Aside from 1GB ram, I think you could really do some good with a decent hard drive. I would recommend the Hitachi Deskstar 7K250 80GB Parallel ATA version, because it just has to be cheap by now and it is ultra-fast while at the same time being quiet and relatively cool.

 

[Ardan]

Originally posted by: Mendoza13
Thanks for the input. I have decided that I will hold on to my 9800 pro for now. I'll mainly be playing EQ2 and WoW.. (not a big FPS fan, *gasp*). I'd still like to overclock my machine to get the best bang for the buck. I just hope the memory wont hold me back too much, but considering that decent overclocking memory is twice as much, it doesn't seem worth it, considering cost/return. Unless there is a cheaper alternative for overclocking memory thats near the price of the Value Select?

I'll let you know about the fan too. I did a bit of reseach on it, and the reviews in several places says that the Silent Boost is fine for overclocking. The room I'll be using it doesn't get much higher than 68. And I plan on creating a "windtunnel" in my box anyway, putting in as many fans as I can.

What the best idea for fan placement? Two in front blowing in, PS pointing out, and another rear fan pointing out? (i just need to make sure i dont blow in more air than I am blowing out, correct?)

In my computer, I have 1x120mm rear fan and 1x120mm speed-adjustible front fan. I usually try to have the same amount of air going in as there is going out and it has always worked wonders for the temperature. Yes, you also want to make sure the rear fan can output more than the front one/ones as well. I have always liked having a front-adjustible fan so that I can increase the speed of it in case I can tell that it needs more air coming in. Thats just me, i'm like that

 

[Satchels]

thanks Ardan i appreciate the opinion

 

[The Internal]

A SEMPORON?!?!?! God, I wouldn't recommend a nuetered proc to anyone.

 

[The Internal]

Ardan, I only read a little, but I can also say I trust Crucial. The few times I've had problems, they are quick to make good on their limited lifetime warranty.

 

[Rebel Nugget]

Can anyone explain to me the pros and cons of going with a 3500+ .90nm core compared to buying the FX-55 instead (under the assumption that the price is not a factor). I read the two reviews of them and it looks like the 3500 overclocks to well past the speed of FX-55 stock. But then again, the FX-55 could probably overclock well past that as well. So without looking at cost, what are the factors to take into account.

Edit: it's probably worth mentioning that this is concerning gaming as the biggest issue.

 

[Ardan]

Originally posted by: The Internal
Ardan, I only read a little, but I can also say I trust Crucial. The few times I've had problems, they are quick to make good on their limited lifetime warranty.

Indeed, I always use Crucial. I plan to get another 512mb for dual channel in...........30 minutes

 

[LS20]

you say that the recommended xp-m is 1.667Ghz but the newegg site says opearting frequency is 1.8Ghz?

 

[ciwell]

It is the 16th, time for another update. :-D

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: LS20
you say that the recommended xp-m is 1.667Ghz but the newegg site says opearting frequency is 1.8Ghz?

You are looking at the desktop version. The Mobile version has 1.67 Ghz speed as it only has (a highly OCable) 266mhz FSB.

-Kevin

 

[LS20]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: LS20
you say that the recommended xp-m is 1.667Ghz but the newegg site says opearting frequency is 1.8Ghz?

You are looking at the desktop version. The Mobile version has 1.67 Ghz speed as it only has (a highly OCable) 266mhz FSB.

-Kevin

im using the link provided there

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