Question System crash, need some help

[Bsmooth]

I have a pretty older system:
HD 500G|SEAGATE ST3500514NS %

(Added Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB 2.5 Inch SATA III Internal SSD) (2019)


MB ASROCK|P67 EXTREME4 (B3) P67 R


DVD BURN SAMSUNG | SH-S222A BK


VGA ASUS|ENGTX560 TI DCII TOP/2DI/1

Updated to EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti SC GAMING, 4GB 5/7/2018


CPU COOLER CM| RR-B10-212P-G1


MEM 4Gx2|KST KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX


CASE ROSEWILL|CHALLENGER


PSU ANTEC|650W EA650


CPU INTEL|CORE I5 2500K 3.3G 6M


WIN 7 HOME PREM SP1 64BIT ENG (Updated to Win 10)


ASUS XONAR DG 5.1 CHANNELS PCI INTERFACE SOUND CARD
I'm afraid it doesn't play well with Win 10, it started crashing when we started having Win10 upgrades about a year ago, and with the newest it finally went into a looping crash that I just couldn't get out of.
I loaded up Win7 64 bit and its working OK now, but I need to upgrade and need some advice for components.
I would like to run at 1920x1080 on a 24 inch monitor eventually. Mostly run Assetto corsa,GPL and a few other racing games. Would also like to get a slightly smaller case that also has plenty of USB 2 ports, not USB 3(smaller blue ports).
Probably would like to stick with Intel, maybe Intel Core i5-11400.
Any help or other forums for a build would be greatly appreciated.

 

[solidsnake1298]

It looks like Intel does not support the P67 chipset on Windows 10 anymore. It looks like Intel doesn't even make available any downloads for P67 altogether. So that is probably why you are having stability trouble in Windows 10: Lack of support.

First, a correction: USB 3 is not a port, it is a protocol. The "smaller blue ports" are "type C" connectors. Most modern motherboards have just one of them and are usually red. What you called "USB 2 ports" are called "type A" connectors and can be USB 2 or USB 3. A typical mid-range motherboard will have six type A connectors. Usually four of them are USB 3 speeds and two of them are USB 2 speeds. Some cheaper boards will have two USB 3 type A ports and four USB 2 type A ports.

If you are planning on getting a Core i5 11400, I would stick with a B560 motherboard. Something like this: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813145275

16GB DDR4-3200 kits are readily available and on the cheaper side. I'm pretty sure the 11400 will not allow memory speeds higher than 3200.

Stick with your 1050Ti. Wait until graphics card prices aren't insane.

The 11400 will come with a cooler, but if you want to go with an aftermarket cooler I always recommend Noctua. The NH-U12S is a top performer, quiet, and not too expensive. Your current cooler probably doesn't have compatible mounting hardware.

Your PSU is fine for now. In the future, when GPU prices come back down from the stratosphere and you get a current Nvidia or AMD GPU, you may want to upgrade that PSU.

Because of the gamery name of your case there are a lot of results and I can't be certain which result is your case. I'm assuming it is one of the mid-towers I am looking at. Since you have a DVD burner, I'm assuming internal, I think Be Quiet has a couple cases that have a one or two 5.25 inch bays. The Pure Base 600? But that wouldn't be much smaller than what you have. I'm not aware of a smaller mid-tower, that still support full ATX motherboards, and have 5.25 inch bays. If you are ok with ditching your DVD burner, or putting it in an external enclosure, I have a Fractal Meshify C and highly recommend it for those looking for smaller mid-tower cases. Maybe just stick with the case you have?

Your SSD and HDD are fine.

If that sound card uses an original PCI connector, you would have to ditch it since I am not aware of a Intel 500 series motherboard with OG PCI slots. Actually, I'm not aware of any motherboard made in the last few years that still have OG PCI slots. But onboard audio has come a long way since your P67 motherboard.

 

[solidsnake1298]

I just realized that your comment on USB ports was probably about USB ports on the front of the case. If so, just about all modern cases have two USB 3 type A connectors on the front. More expensive cases will have a single type C connector in addition to the two type A connectors.

 

[mikeymikec]

I built a system with the ASUS P8P67 PRO board and upgraded it to Win10 some years ago, still going fine to this day.

 

[Bsmooth]

Man that is a lot of great information. I couldn't figure out for the life of me why my always stable PC was having fits everytime Win 10 did an upgrade, then again I'm lucky to have gotten so many years service out of it.
I was surprised at how many types of motherboards there are for the newer Intel chips. Are there any great differences to look out for on the different 410,560,460,479, etc ?

 

[solidsnake1298]

Man that is a lot of great information. I couldn't figure out for the life of me why my always stable PC was having fits everytime Win 10 did an upgrade, then again I'm lucky to have gotten so many years service out of it.
I was surprised at how many types of motherboards there are for the newer Intel chips. Are there any great differences to look out for on the different 410,560,460,479, etc ?

For the 11th gen Intel you have to use a 500 series motherboard, period. So filter your searches on Newegg, or wherever you are shopping, to only include 500 series intel chipsets.

H510 = super cheap, bare bones motherboards. Usually includes the bare minimum ports and connectors. Cannot overclock a CPU even if the CPU itself supports it.
B560 = mid range, includes typical ports and more of them. Cannot overclock a CPU even if the CPU itself supports it.
H570 = Similar to B560 but with support for more USB ports. Has a few more chipset PCIE lanes.
Z590 = high end, includes faster USB/thunderbolt ports, and even more of them. Even more chipset PCIE lanes. Supports CPU and memory overclocking if used with a K SKU CPU.

List of Intel chipsets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I recommended the B560 board in my first post because the CPU you were thinking of getting, an 11400, does not have a K SKU so there is probably no point in getting a Z590 board. Also, there are A LOT of B560 boards to choose from. The H510 series boards are soooo bare bones. They tend to cater toward a particular type of user that knows that they will never need the extra ports. There isn't much selection for H570 boards. The extra chipset PCIE lanes aren't useful for most people. The addition of RAID support is not useful for most users.

In my opinion, the choice is between B560 for non-K CPUs and Z590 for K CPUs. Since you are looking at a non-K CPU, my suggestion is B560.

 

[Bsmooth]

Thanks, wasn't doubting your word, but I just didn't know much about the new MB's there are so many options now. Even with all the reading I've been doing I still didn't understand the difference, and I didn't see a thing about K or Non-K CPU's at all.
With all thats changed since I built my last PC that I mentioned in my first post, will the power supply even have the right connections for a new Motherboard ?

 

[solidsnake1298]

Thanks, wasn't doubting your word, but I just didn't know much about the new MB's there are so many options now. Even with all the reading I've been doing I still didn't understand the difference, and I didn't see a thing about K or Non-K CPU's at all.
With all thats changed since I built my last PC that I mentioned in my first post, will the power supply even have the right connections for a new Motherboard ?

K CPUs are unlocked and overclockable, but only in a Z590 board. non-K CPUs cannot be overclocked. Some of Intel's CPUs have one or more letters at the end denoting particular traits they have.

K = Unlocked and overclockable
F = Does not have an iGPU
T = Lower power, lower base and boost clocks

Power supply connections have not changed in quite some time. Mid 2000's? When the ATX main power connector went from 20 to 24 pins. And the addition of PCIE, SATA, and the CPU EPS power connectors. Perhaps the number of each has change a little, but that's it. The main reason you would need a new PSU is if A) your PSU is flakey, B) you need more power, C) you have a non-modular PSU and need a modular PSU for space saving reasons, or D) your PSU is butt ugly and you want a do a glam build. I was using a PSU from 2008 up until 2019 when I moved to a smaller case, the aforementioned Fractal Meshify C. I had a non-modular PSU and went to a fully modular PSU.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

@solidsnake1298 covered everything you will need for the new build.

About B560: Stay away from most of the budget boards if you do anything more than light gaming. Hardware Unboxed did a couple of vids on how terrible some of them are. They also provide the best relatively inexpensive models tested, to help you avoid the garbage.

One of the pros of 560 v. 460 is being able to run ram at XMP.

My experience: i5 10400 on one of the worst of the worst ASRock B560M-HDV. It did okay for gaming, but even with power limits at max, it would not boost past 4GHz. And I did not do any long sessions that could potentially cause VRM throttling. I suspect hours of Warhammer II might be the game to make it wilt. The board did run DDR4 3200 at XMP which was nice. Bought a AORUS ELITE Z490 here in the FS/FT forum for a great price to replace it. Much happier with the 10400 system now.

 

[Arkaign]

Punisher has great info there. Hey check out our FS/FT section, I just got a B560 and 11500 for a buddy from someone here and it works fantastic, I believe he still has some stuff available including more (new, unused) B560 boards, ram, etc. Great trader and better deals than Newegg/Amazon.

 

[Arkaign]

Oh, and selling your P67, 2500k, and 8GB DDR3 I'd imagine would get you perhaps $60-$70 towards the new stuff if you felt like parting with it 👍

 

[Bsmooth]

I'm thinking going with a quiet rig, no overclocking.
Either keep my case or maybe a Fractal case, read they are very quiet.
Motherboard either a GIGABYTE B560 AORUS PRO AX or MSI MAG B560 Tomahawk Wifi Motherboard, both did very well in the testing, just have to see which has more USB Type A ports.
keep my current low end GTX 1050 TI and Samsung Evo SSD which is where I'll put Win 10, but those PCI-e SSD's look interesting too, maybe put the OS on that instead. Only thing about the SDD's that scared me a bit was a finite time of writes to them, which the mechanical drives don't have( they just tend to die at the worst times instead).
Biggest thing I'll be constantly doing is importing RAW images from my camera into my PC then rerworking them in Photoshop and exporting to another drive for safekeeping.
Problem is now trying to find an Intel i5-11400. I did see them at Adorama and B&H, but it should be just around $200.00 shouldn't it ?

 

[solidsnake1298]

I'm thinking going with a quiet rig, no overclocking.
Either keep my case or maybe a Fractal case, read they are very quiet.
Motherboard either a GIGABYTE B560 AORUS PRO AX or MSI MAG B560 Tomahawk Wifi Motherboard, both did very well in the testing, just have to see which has more USB Type A ports.
keep my current low end GTX 1050 TI and Samsung Evo SSD which is where I'll put Win 10, but those PCI-e SSD's look interesting too, maybe put the OS on that instead. Only thing about the SDD's that scared me a bit was a finite time of writes to them, which the mechanical drives don't have( they just tend to die at the worst times instead).
Biggest thing I'll be constantly doing is importing RAW images from my camera into my PC then rerworking them in Photoshop and exporting to another drive for safekeeping.
Problem is now trying to find an Intel i5-11400. I did see them at Adorama and B&H, but it should be just around $200.00 shouldn't it ?

The Fractal Define 7 and Define 7 XL both have a 5.25 inch bay for your DVD drive. And they are known for their quiet operation. I love Fractal cases.

Both of those motherboards are solid choices, whichever you end up picking. I've heard particularly good things about the MSI Tomahawk line. Both for AMD and Intel chipsets.

Unless you are writing tens or hundreds of gigabytes to a SSD every day you do not need to worry about the write endurance of modern SSDs. FYI, your 860 EVO suffers from the same write endurance issues that NVME SSDs do. That all NAND flash suffers from. That includes thumb drives and SD cards. I have, and still use as a secondary drive, an Intel X25-M G2 160GB SSD (circa 2009) and in 12 years have only gone through 3% of its write endurance. And because of its small size, I semi-regularly shuffled what games were installed on it when it was my main OS/game drive. Sure, it is MLC and not TLC/QLC and has more write endurance. But for a typical home user the write endurance of a TLC/QLC SSD is not an issue. As long as your daily write totals are hundreds of MBs or a couple GBs, it is fine. If you are importing tens of GBs every day, or more, it may be prudent to import onto a mechanical HDD. Unless you want to shell out for an enterprise grade MLC SSD (uber expensive). I, personally, import my 24MP RAW photos onto a mechanical HDD and the performance in Adobe Lightroom is more than satisfactory.

$200 is about right for an 11400.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Only thing about the SDD's that scared me a bit was a finite time of writes to them

Honestly, under a "normal" consumer workload (NOT a database or VM server), and expecting a "normal" lifespan (5-10 years), you really don't have much to worry about these days, as long as you go with a 1st-tier brand-name. Samsung, Intel, Crucial/Micron, or WD/Sandisk. Maybe Toshiba or SKHynix too. Adata and Kingston aren't too bad either, but they don't mfg controllers or flash memory themselves.

 

[Arkaign]

Honestly, under a "normal" consumer workload (NOT a database or VM server), and expecting a "normal" lifespan (5-10 years), you really don't have much to worry about these days, as long as you go with a 1st-tier brand-name. Samsung, Intel, Crucial/Micron, or WD/Sandisk. Maybe Toshiba or SKHynix too. Adata and Kingston aren't too bad either, but they don't mfg controllers or flash memory themselves.

Yeah I've only seen a few dead ssds out of many thousands over the past decade+, and mostly old 60GB OCZ and the like.

 

[VirtualLarry]

and mostly old 60GB OCZ and the like.

Yep, those old (pre-Toshiba acquisition) SSDs, had... issues. Most died within a few years, or, during a power outage. I gave a buddy one, and he used it for a while, and the power went out, and ... it died. He had a wallet on it too.

To be sure, I equipped his PC with a standard HDD, which was fine, but he never really got into the habit of copying important files to BOTH drives. Some people need more training as to their computer habits.

 

[Bsmooth]

Thats the thing I still have the original spin HD which I had win10 on and so many issues, and I happened to just get another 2TB Barracuda drive that was on sale for under $50, so I have plenty of HD space. Maybe just reformat both of them and use them for storage ?.
I also checked CPU's and the one I picked i5-10400 is bringing almost $240 now, so I'm wondering If theres a more readily available option around the same price, maybe the i5-10600K or i5 11600K instead, or is going to a i7 a better option. hardest part is just finding one.
Is the shortage because of so many people being home and building there own PC's, or just a case where supply can't keep up with demand?
I did see a story about container ships being kept waiting outside ports for weeks and weeks, maybe thats part of thee reason as well, robably the same reason for shortage of GPU's too.

 

[solidsnake1298]

I'm seeing $270-280 for an 11400. So if you are seeing $240 that is on the low side. $200 may have been the launch MSRP, but with the chip shortages nothing is going for MSRP.

As for the cause of chip shortages? All of the above? Difficulty shipping because of COVID restrictions. Shortages of workers relative to demand. Super high demand for chips in all markets (cars, computers, gaming consoles, crypto mining, phones). Only a couple suppliers of cutting edge silicon (Samsung and TSMC). For Americans, 20% tariffs for products made in China.

Practically speaking, for everyday tasks and gaming, a NVME SSD is not much faster than a SATA 3 SSD. If you want to save a buck, making your 860 EVO your OS drive would be almost as fast as getting a NVME SSD. But if you are set on getting a NVME SSD, anything from Samsung is a good choice (I have a 970 EVO and my wife's computer has a 960 EVO). Any of Western Digital's SSDs with their in-house controllers are also a good choice. Like the SN850, SN750, and SN550.

If you want to stick with Intel I would only consider the 11th gen chips. Even though they are still 14nm, they are a new core design instead of being Skylake derivatives like 10th gen.

 

[Arkaign]

11600K at $265 is a deal

Intel Core i5-11600K Processor (3.9 GHz, 6 Cores, Socket FCLGA1200) Box - BX8070811600K for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Core i5-11600K Processor (3.9 GHz, 6 Cores, Socket FCLGA1200) Box - BX8070811600K at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

To take full advantage, need a Z590

ASRock Z590 Phantom Gaming 4 LGA 1200 Intel Z590 ATX Intel Motherboard | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for ASRock Z590 Phantom Gaming 4 LGA 1200 Intel Z590 ATX Intel Motherboard at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Bsmooth]

According to most of the charts I see the i5 11600KF probably is the best bang for the buck for 11gen Intel chips, at least for single core performance anyways.

 

[Arkaign]

According to most of the charts I see the i5 11600KF probably is the best bang for the buck for 11gen Intel chips, at least for single core performance anyways.

Normally true. But right now the 11600K is $265 new on eBay, and the 11600KF is $290 🤷

I would suggest the 11400 but it's barely any cheaper than the 11600K 🤔

 

[Bsmooth]

Has anyone said anything about when the prices and quantities available might return to normal ?

 

[solidsnake1298]

All predictions are Q4 2021 into Q1 2022.

 

[Arkaign]

Has anyone said anything about when the prices and quantities available might return to normal ?

Your guess is as good as mine 🤔

 

[Bsmooth]

This is what I have so far, keeping my own case:
GIGABYTE B560 AORUS PRO AX LGA 1200 Intel B560 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Intel Motherboard $199

Intel Core i5-11600K Rocket Lake 6-Core 3.9 GHz LGA 1200 125W BX8070811600K Desktop Processor Intel UHD Graphics 750 $287

Patriot Viper Steel 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model PVS416G320C6K $93

Noctua NH-U12S 120x120x25mm ( NF-F12 PWM) SSO2-Bearing ( Self-stabilising oil-presure bearing ) CPU Cooler $70

Not sure what else I need, difference between the i5-10400 at $202 and the i5-11600k is only $80, seems like a pretty good upgrade for the money, hopefully the memory will work right out of the box without tweaking. Just remembered need thermal paste. I think I used Arctic something last time with one dot of it on the CPU, not sure If they still sell it though.
Its a bit of a cash outlay around $700, and thats without a Video card either, hopefully all my internal cables will still work ?