"Taliban says most of ancient Buddhas destroyed..."

[Spoooon]

Jmman made a good point. Where do you draw the line? When you get right down to it, there are enough domestic problems as it is without the US getting mired into some kind of international thing. The US has her fair share of wife beaters, child abusers, molesters, and on and on. We can't get on a pedestal and preach to the world until we deserve to.

 

[Elledan]

There are only a few physical differences between males and females. They can do the same things, although in some jobs males are better, and the other way around.

Therefore, what the Taliban is doing at this moment, lacks motivation based on logic. You can't come to the conclusion that women should be limited in their freedom when only using logic.
Logic is replaced by religion and greed for power, ultimate control over the country.

Is this a good thing? I don't think it is. This already goes further than just cultural differences.
Instead of having determined before you've seen anything that women shouldn't have too much freedom, but that males can have all the freedom they want, logic predicts that you should give them both an equal amount of freedom and base any limitations on the results.

I must conclude for that reason that the Taliban doesn't act on logic, nor is the Islam based on logic.

 

[LadyJessica]

Jmman,

You read denniflosses's post? The women don't like it either and those who knew any better left.

 

[Jmman]

Good impersonation of Spock!! j/k

Last time I checked, logic plays a very small role in socio-economic decisions....

 

[Sohcan]

Jmman: What you're referring to is a common dilemma in cultural anthropology. On one end of the spectrum, there is ethnocentrism, the belief that one's culture is superior and every other is inherently wrong. On the other end of the spectrum is cultural relativism, the belief that every cultural practice has the right to exist and cannot be judged. Both sides are flawed: ethnocentrism is obviously destructive, but a cultural relativist would say that the Nazis were not at fault for committing the Jewish holocaust because the Nazi culture that existed at the time forced them to do it. Cultural relativism totally ignores any sort of common, prevaling human morality and rights. There has to be some sort of middle ground between the two sides.

The issue in Afghanistan is not merely the US looking at a culture they don't understand. Before the Taliban took power, women held jobs as doctors, teachers, and lawyers, but were forced to give up their previous lives under the threat of death. This is not the people of Afghanistan practicing their cultural beliefs, it is a political force imposing their system of laws on people who are helpless to resist.

 

[Jmman]

Well spoken, Sohcan, and for the most part I agree with you. The only possible flaw I see in your logic is that the Islamic tradition usually has placed a severe burden on women's rights. Even though these rights might have become more liberal in Afghanistan in the pre-Taliban days, I think many of the "injustices" can be attributed simply to a more traditional Islamic regime. I see great similarities between Iran and Afghanistan in this respect. During the Shaw's regime, many of the "traditional" requirements of the Islamic faith with repect to women were overlooked. With the Islamic revolution under Khomeini, many of these newer, liberal policies concerning women were overturned and a more traditional stance was taken. By the way, 1000 women were stoned to death in Iran from 1978-1994 for some of the same offences that are being stated here. The Islamic faith simply places great restrictions on women's rights. This can be seen in many fundamentalist countries. I agree with you though, both sides of the spectrum are flawed, but the correct stance is difficult to define and even harder to implement....

 

[dennilfloss]

Jmman,

many of the so-called restrictions are not religious but cultural in nature. They are not in the Khoran and stem in fact from older arabic traditions of controlling women. That is why King Hussein of Jordan had problems reforming some of those traditions even though the clergy were on his side.

Moving (Kate Bush)

 

[GL]

I believe that human rights are universal. But to here some of you Americans talk about how your rights are so advanced makes me giggle. There are laws being passed in your country and that have already passed that are slowly removing rights that were guaranteed via your constitution. The most well known to me is the DMCA which, if implemented to the extreme could outlaw all computers as copyright infringement mechanisms.

I'd say that European countries and Canada provide more advanced human rights than does the U.S. But I digress.

The Taliban is an extremist, pyschotic organization holding control of a country under the veil of religion. But guess what...who put them there? The U.S., by supplying arms and aid. If you want to stop this from happening again, you should keep a close eye on who your government decides to fund because, just like Saddam, they can turn on you.

-GL

 

[Spoooon]

...cultural relativist would say that the Nazis were not at fault for committing the Jewish holocaust because the Nazi culture that existed at the time forced them to do it...

I think that that is a different situation entirely. An egotistical maniac's vision of the future is hardly the basis of "culture". They found a scapegoat and punished it. This has more to do with psychology than sociology. The society embraced the holocaust because of humanity's tendency to listen to an authority figure and the fact that people are animals when in a mob.

...Before the Taliban took power, women held jobs as doctors, teachers, and lawyers, but were forced to give up their previous lives under the threat of death...

This goes to what I was saying about culture lag and backlash. They were exposed to new things, but not all of their society was ready. When the Taliban took control, they changed things back to the way they wanted. I forget the name, but there is a religion that is against the use of medicine to fight disease. The gist of it is that it's God's will whether you get sick and die, or get sick and get better. Is it right to force medical use on them? I have no idea what the answer is. What I do think is that we should take care of our own problems first before we try and fix the world (assuming we have the right to meddle).


edit "I'd say that European countries and Canada provide more advanced human rights than does the U.S." there goes that ethnocentrism again...

edit2: I just thought of this, I wonder what the world would be like if the bible flat out said that women were less than men?

 

[GL]

Spooon,

I've never heard of the term ethnocentrism but I just looked it up. Isn't that just a matter of perspective? I mean...when it all boils down to it, the Taliban is being ethnocentric by forcing an entire population to live a certain way. It seems to be a fancy word for "I know what's better for you than you do". I don't think it's being ethnocentric to denounce the Taliban because they are the ones that have started the debate on what is best. Therefore, they are ethnocentric and in order to accept or reject them, you have to be ethnocentric in return...does this make any sense?

-GL

 

[Spoooon]

You've got it kind of right. Ethnocentrism is more like "I'm an American and my way of life is better than yours." Not, "I believe this and I'm right and your wrong." I was just kidding before though.

Also, someone else started a thread on this but I didn't realize. Someone posted that what the Taliban is doing is contrary to Islam, the tearing down of the statues that is. Like I said before, the whole business seems more to draw attention rather than executing what they believe is dictated by their religion.

 

[silhoutte]

This truly saddens me thank you for informing all of us.

 

[monckywrench]

Oh well, there is nothing to be done about it unless the Taliban allow conservators from other nations to rescue some of the artifacts. There is no remotely feasable way to intervene. The nice thing about loonies like this destroying their own countries is that is leaves little energy for bothering their neighbors. Cambodia got pretty thrashed by the Khmer Rouge, but didn't bother nearby nations. I hope Afghanistan is similarly disabled and afterwards retreats into seclusion.

 

[RaDragon]

the taliban are just demonstrating how much or should i say, how little tolerance they have for religious artifacts. it's just ridiculous how they disregard their own country's history by obliterating ancient religious relics.

btw, that article is also discussed here.

 

[Jmman]

Tolerance and religious fervor are almost mutually exclusive....look at Christianity and how "idol worship" is dealt with.......

 

[eakers]

<< As strange as their customs are to us though, I think their right to sovereignty has to be upheld >>


im not asking that they change their religious beliefs im asking that they treat everyone with baisc human rights. this isnt an im right you're wrong kinda thing its an everyone has the right to control their own lives kinda thing.
funny how some people here are against abortions but all for letting them kill woman for no reason because &quot;its a culture thing and we shouldnt be involved&quot;

*kat. <-- :|

 

[Spoooon]

...funny how some people here are against abortions but all for letting them kill woman for no reason because &quot;its a culture thing and we shouldnt be involved...

Well, it used to be okay to beat your wife. It still happens, but for the most part it's agreed that women have rights, etc. But it didn't happen overnight. Times did change over there, and I'm sure times will change again. We shouldn't step in to make things right. The US just isn't good at meddling with other countries.

 

[joohang]

This is sickening...

 

Amazing how destructive and ignorant people can be.

 

[Czar]

kat/eakers

Human rights is a standard set by the western world, by people who have their society built up from christianity. Their society is based on totaly different things. There, we seem to be breaking human rights.

When we talk about human rights, then we cant go any further then our own borders. We must respect other customs.

But destroying these statues then they are destroying history, and history is sacret.

 

[Spoooon]

Remember, the destruction of the Buddhas have nothing to do with customs or religion. Like someone said in the other thread on the subject, Islamic religious leaders have said this goes against what is taught in the Koran. In my opinion, this is all designed to get world attention.

 

[madmacks]

man, that sucks! its like that scene in saving private ryan when that dude gets stabbed slowly and all you can do is watch and cringe.

 

[Jmman]

Actually, even though other Islamic leaders have said that the destruction of the Buddhas is wrong, the Afghani clerics(like bishops or cardinals)were the ones that ordered these destroyed.......

&quot;?Our Ulema [clerics] have given an edict. It cannot be taken back. There is no place for statues in an Islamic country,? Jamal said. &quot;

 

[soapdish]

Spooon,


You're right of course. This is actually a message to the taliban from within the Taliban itself. You see, there are moderat taliban members, and there are radical members. The moderats were gaining in popularity, with the country being in a shambles and everything, so the radicals threw down the gauntlet and said &quot;to be a taliban, you must strictly follow the koran, and it says blah blah blah&quot;. What they (the radicals) did was test whether the moderates would take a pro-rest-of-the-world stance, or a taliban-whacko stance by forcing this issue. The moderates had to tow the hard-line taliban line, for now, because they themselves were facing imprisonment and possibly execution within the taliban itself.


So, this whole thing is a lithmus test for taliban loyalty. The unfortunate thing is that the whole world, and even the arab world, will further isolate the afgahns because of it. And with the drought and other regional problems, millions will probably die before sense returns to the region.

 

[dennilfloss]

They misinterpret the prescription for no image of the divinity. This is what prompted the Muslims to destroy many icons in Sofia Haggia cathedral in Istambul 550 years ago. Buddha is not a divinity. He is revered, not worshipped.

Never (Heart)