Talk me into or out of a Hackintosh

[aman74]

Hello all and thanks for any help in advance, it's much appreciated and needed.

Some background...I am by no means that proficient with computers. On the other hand, I did build a PC, probably over 10 years ago. The past couple weeks I've been reacquainting myself with current hardware. I have the general idea down and some of the not-so-general stuff as well. I guess I'm trying to say I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as the average poster here, but much more knowledgeable than the average person out there.

I wouldn't mind paying a modest premium for an Apple product and I know if you compare exact spec items that the prices can be not too drastically apart. However, they are when choice becomes a factor. I'm not looking for a laptop, so that's a biggie right there. There are no quad core minis. No headless desktop. I'd actually consider the iMac as I need a nice screen anyhow, but there are too many downsides and not enough flexibility or long term value. I'm actually considering the 2012 Mini, but it really kinda sucks to pay a premium for old tech that I still need to mod with drives, spend for externals, etc...

If the Hackintosh isn't viable for me though, I think I'll have to go the 2012 Mini or newer iMac route. If that's the case are there any external options that run as well as internal for SSD's/HDD's?

I've done some research on that, but am confused still. I found some numbers that at first made it sound like throughput wasn't that far off, but then real world numbers showed a significant difference. I think some of those numbers were a couple years old, so I'm wondering if things have changed at all? USB3 or Thunderbolt the way to go? There are new versions of both coming out? Some USB3's can't be boot drives? USB3 can't run trim? I'm also not thrilled with a boot drive being external as cords get bumped.

I need drive flexibility and probably a lot of storage as I'm doing photoshop and digital audio work. So separate drives for OS for ease of backup, maybe a separate scratch drive, etc...I'll probably start of simple, but it needs to be fast and flexible and I'm not sure this is possible externally?

Ok, if I go Hackintosh. I was excited at first because I'm reading about how much easier it's gotten. While I'm not totally clear on the basic procedure and really don't know about DMG's, Kexts, DSDT's, SSDT's, etc...The basic procedure doesn't seem much harder than a normal OS install. The issue seems to be all the other futzing around? Some questions...

-If people are using the same known and recommended hardware, why are there so many different issues between like users? Is some of this stuff truly that buggy and random?

-I was going to do a mITX build, but then became concerned that since there's only one PCIe slot that if I had an issue with the NIC or BT cards I'd not have an option to add a separate card if I got a GPU, which I initially wasn't going to, but then I heard about how IGP's are causing issues. Would you avoid mITX because of this if you were me?

-There are half size PCIe slots now too? I thought I saw something about smaller NIC and BT cards...maybe that would solve the issue. There are also small DC slots for some kind of micro power supplies?

-There are still no Mac's with Broadwell, so that means that Z97 isn't natively supported? Is native support that big of a deal and was Z87 more stable because of it?

-I saw reference to Apple not supporting older configurations after a few years. I understand comments that we can't be guaranteed of things on a Hackintosh when updating the OS, but this comment seemed to be aimed at real Mac's as well. Not sure what it could have meant?

-I keep reading threads about successful builds, but their idea of success seems different then mine. They have a list of things not working still.

-What usually works and doesn't? I don't want any surprises. I thought I knew the deal in general, then I come across posts about how DRM content doesn't work. Is that just for iTunes? If it's just iTunes, it probably won't be a deal-breaker as there are alternatives, but it's an example of something I never would have known about.

-The Hackintosh sites all seem to hate each other and the help seems limited with people questions often going ignored. What sites do you recommend? Anyone willing to hold my hand through this? Long shot, but thought I'd ask as you never know.

-Clover is more stable, but harder?

-How high of a chance that Apple does something that "breaks" a part of the system? I'd have a backup available, but if there happens to be an OS update that we can't use, the system is then stuck at the point? I'd have to switch to MS or buy an Apple at that point I suppose. Doesn't seem like it's happened yet, but I wonder if people have had to buy a new motherboard or something because some part just wouldn't work anymore?

Thanks for reading, if you got through it all.

I suppose even if it's just to get my own thoughts down, it's worthwhile.

 

[renatoaraujoc]

Any apple laptop can be used as a "tower", you don't necessarily need to opt for iMac or Mini. Buy yourself a quad core macbook pro and delegate it's processing power to an external mice, keyboard and monitor, you will gain the portability you need. Tbh, I myself will do the same in the very near future, I'll buy an MSI gaming laptop for only games and a macbook pro quad core for workspace (I am Web developer), buy a 2k monitor and input both the laptops on it. All I need to do is to switch back and forth using the controller. Hope I could help.

 

[Emulex]

It's far less trouble to just buy a used mac product and use it - than have to deal with hackintosh b/s every time an osx upgrade comes out.

You can get a cheap macbook white - upgrade the ram to 8gb and throw an ssd in it for $100 (over the cost of the $200-300 laptop) and have a fine osx computer that will be good for a few more years.

Hackintosh are far more trouble than its worth if you plan to use OSX truly!

 

[mmntech]

Tonymacx86 is a good resource to get your started. He's got some build guides as well with hardware that's known to work. Gigabyte motherboards have long been the ones to get.

Hackintoshes though are by nature... unstable. Software updates could cause problems. So it's not something I'd use for any serious work. If you're going to go ahead with it, set up two separate partitions and have it dual boot. One with Windows and the other OS X. Put your photo and audio work on Windows.

 

[aman74]

It's far less trouble to just buy a used mac product and use it - than have to deal with hackintosh b/s every time an osx upgrade comes out.

You can get a cheap macbook white - upgrade the ram to 8gb and throw an ssd in it for $100 (over the cost of the $200-300 laptop) and have a fine osx computer that will be good for a few more years.

Hackintosh are far more trouble than its worth if you plan to use OSX truly!

I'm looking at 4790 cpu's and bare minimum 4690.

Any apple laptop can be used as a "tower", you don't necessarily need to opt for iMac or Mini. Buy yourself a quad core macbook pro and delegate it's processing power to an external mice, keyboard and monitor, you will gain the portability you need. Tbh, I myself will do the same in the very near future, I'll buy an MSI gaming laptop for only games and a macbook pro quad core for workspace (I am Web developer), buy a 2k monitor and input both the laptops on it. All I need to do is to switch back and forth using the controller. Hope I could help.

Yes, I'm on an ancient Macbook at the moment, but Macbooks are pricey, especially when paying for a screen that I don't need. Not to mention all the external drives I need.

Tonymacx86 is a good resource to get your started. He's got some build guides as well with hardware that's known to work. Gigabyte motherboards have long been the ones to get.

Hackintoshes though are by nature... unstable. Software updates could cause problems. So it's not something I'd use for any serious work. If you're going to go ahead with it, set up two separate partitions and have it dual boot. One with Windows and the other OS X. Put your photo and audio work on Windows.

The audio and photo work is specifically with I want OSX in the first place.

I'm hearing it's best to have two separate drives if you dual boot.

 

[renatoaraujoc]

If money is a concern, then do what Emulex told you, get a used macbook pro quad core, upgrade the ram, put in an ssd and gg. Forget those hackintoshes, iMacs, Apple Minis, they are trouble and offer bad portability.

 

[renatoaraujoc]

Just a tip: be careful with those newer macbook pros and airs, they are coming with everything solded, thus unupgradable, I had this problem with a macbook air (had to exchange with a mbpro retina and add money)

 

[Emulex]

Well that is why I suggest used. IE if you want a tower, get an older MAC PRO, throw in your own ram, upgrade the CPU's, VIDEO CARD, go to town.

I have an old MAC PRO with dual E5520's I got about 3 years ago for $1800, nowadays i'd doubt it would cost $900 for the same server. Easy to upgrade cpu's to X5650 for $150, 32gb of ram = easy,cheap, video card = easy to do with UEFI flash, Add SSD's and go!

Don't have to worry about incompatibility with used apple gear as long as you are only 1 generation behind!

Having to deal with chameleon boot loader, and OSX upgrades as fast as they are coming. Holding off on an upgrade or hosing your whole system due to a bad patch just isn't worth it if you are using LOB business apps like audio/photo work.

Plus you can run windows on a MAC, or even ESXi if you need to get more utilization out of a mac product to run windows/freebsd/linux/OSX VM's. So you can stretch the cost of the unit out a bit!

Plus the resale value on mac products guarantees if you get out before the OS goes EOL for that MAC - you will make your money back!

 

[aman74]

If money is a concern, then do what Emulex told you, get a used macbook pro quad core, upgrade the ram, put in an ssd and gg. Forget those hackintoshes, iMacs, Apple Minis, they are trouble and offer bad portability.

I'll have to check the pricing again, but in the past I didn't think the Macbook's were much off of an iMac if anything they were more I thought.

Well that is why I suggest used. IE if you want a tower, get an older MAC PRO, throw in your own ram, upgrade the CPU's, VIDEO CARD, go to town.

I have an old MAC PRO with dual E5520's I got about 3 years ago for $1800, nowadays i'd doubt it would cost $900 for the same server. Easy to upgrade cpu's to X5650 for $150, 32gb of ram = easy,cheap, video card = easy to do with UEFI flash, Add SSD's and go!

Don't have to worry about incompatibility with used apple gear as long as you are only 1 generation behind!

Having to deal with chameleon boot loader, and OSX upgrades as fast as they are coming. Holding off on an upgrade or hosing your whole system due to a bad patch just isn't worth it if you are using LOB business apps like audio/photo work.

Plus you can run windows on a MAC, or even ESXi if you need to get more utilization out of a mac product to run windows/freebsd/linux/OSX VM's. So you can stretch the cost of the unit out a bit!

Plus the resale value on mac products guarantees if you get out before the OS goes EOL for that MAC - you will make your money back!

I'll have to give the Mac Pro's a look. The good resale is actually a problem in this case though, if they're holding well, then that means I'll be paying more.

I don't know much about the Pro's, I'll have to check the previous generation or two behind and get an idea on price and what they can be upgraded to. They usually use Xeon's? Is that on X79 and X99 format?

What did you mean about not having to worry about incompatibility if only a generation behind? Did you mean for upgrading the CPU's?

The price on them is so high that I don't know that it's going to be anywhere near what I had in mind, even used.

I can build a 4790K machine with 16GB's of ram and a 256GB SSD for under 800 dollars.

This really makes me consider Windows and I really don't want to.

 

[renatoaraujoc]

You have to be aware that you will have to pay twice as much to join the OSX Ecosystem. You can build amazing Windows computers with not much money, but if you want OSX, you'll have to spend extra bucks on it.

 

[aman74]

You have to be aware that you will have to pay twice as much to join the OSX Ecosystem. You can build amazing Windows computers with not much money, but if you want OSX, you'll have to spend extra bucks on it.

This is not lost on me...it's the main reason for most Hackintosh's in the first place.

 

[renatoaraujoc]

This is not lost on me...it's the main reason for most Hackintosh's in the first place.

Don't wanna be harsh, I've tried a hackintosh once, spent days on it, it's just not worth it, too much trouble unless you really buy the specific hardware for it (and still opt-in for random bugs). Its all up to you bro.

 

[Childs]

I think an old Mac Pro is the way to go. I've been fooling around with PC video cards in one, and combined with a USB3 card it adds a lot of life back into the Mac Pro. I've seen 8 core versions for around $500.

 

[aman74]

I think an old Mac Pro is the way to go. I've been fooling around with PC video cards in one, and combined with a USB3 card it adds a lot of life back into the Mac Pro. I've seen 8 core versions for around $500.

I never paid much attention to them, so don't know what year/specs to look at? Not sure if they even come out every year? I seem to recall this newest one people had been waiting awhile for one to come out.

 

[RossMAN]

I'll have to check the pricing again, but in the past I didn't think the Macbook's were much off of an iMac if anything they were more I thought.

If you haven't already, check out your local Craigslist.org frequently.

 

[aman74]

If you haven't already, check out your local Craigslist.org frequently.

Sure, but then we have to compare apples to apples, , why would we compare a used MacbookPro to a new iMac when iMac's are available used as well. Everything is available used. I always find it odd when people say get a used one to save off the new price of this other model....well, the other model has used ones as well. Seems to come up a lot in any type of forum.

 

[Emulex]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40|R40&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=mac+pro+xeon+2.26&_sop=15
the eight core 2.26ghz nehalem (2009) are the oldest you'd want to get. I see auctions closing in the $500 range!

or single socket systems for $370:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...S1&_nkw=mac+pro+xeon+2009&ghostText=&_sacat=0

 

[vailr]

Yosemite runs fine on my Gigabyte Z97 system, (triple boot configuration on separate drives) with Win7 & Win8.1. OSX 10.9 Mavericks and 10.10 Yosemite are both mature enough that the only minor problem with OSX point updates is with: the (onboard Realtek chip) audio device driver. But: that's a fairly simple procedure to get back to working order.
So: check tonymac's site for Z97 builds and pick from those recommended parts lists. Creating a bootable USB installation medium is the tricky part. An OSX already running on a 2nd machine is needed. However, there are downloads available on bittorrent sites that can bypass that requirement; search for names such as Olarila or Niresh.

 

[aman74]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40|R40&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=mac+pro+xeon+2.26&_sop=15
the eight core 2.26ghz nehalem (2009) are the oldest you'd want to get. I see auctions closing in the $500 range!

or single socket systems for $370:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...S1&_nkw=mac+pro+xeon+2009&ghostText=&_sacat=0

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Interesting that some of those CPU pairs are 10 dollars and others 40, for the same thing.

What is the highest clock that socket can be updated to?

This option is going to take a bit of research for me as I don't really know what I'm looking at or for.

Ultimately though, is that really that much faster than a 2012 Mini? While I do use software that benefits from more cores, a 4 core mini with HT seems comparable as those clock speeds look similar?

The Pro would allow me some more expansion and GPU options I'd imagine. That will take some figuring out on my part though to know what monitor connections I'll have and all that.

Thanks very much for the links though, it will get me started.

Yosemite runs fine on my Gigabyte Z97 system, (triple boot configuration on separate drives) with Win7 & Win8.1. OSX 10.9 Mavericks and 10.10 Yosemite are both mature enough that the only minor problem with OSX point updates is with: the (onboard Realtek chip) audio device driver. But: that's a fairly simple procedure to get back to working order.
So: check tonymac's site for Z97 builds and pick from those recommended parts lists. Creating a bootable USB installation medium is the tricky part. An OSX already running on a 2nd machine is needed. However, there are downloads available on bittorrent sites that can bypass that requirement; search for names such as Olarila or Niresh.

And these are the types of posts that want to make me give it a shot!

Why is Gigabyte preferable? It seemed they were almost necessary in the past, but now I see lots of other boards being used. What are the right chips to look for as far as the onboard features...I guess Realtek for audio? What about the others?

What do you mean about the medium? Are you saying the actual USB drive I use matters?

Thanks

 

[Kaido]

My take as a Hackintosh nerd: (TL;DR - GL!)

1. I refer to Hackintoshes as "science projects". If you're careful with buying parts & doing the installation, you can have a super-reliable machine for a fraction of the cost of the Mac Pro & iMac. I've had mine running for years, very stable & solid. But, they can also make you pull your hair out from glitches. A lot of people go in thinking they'll have a turnkey budget Mac Pro; you CAN do that, but you have to be careful in your approach (finding a guide where someone has worked out all of the kinks, buying the right hardware, making sure the software supports your system, etc.). But it's equally as easy to buy a huge headache of parts if you're not careful.

2. The absolute easiest route to go is to buy hardware listed on the Tonymac website. It was just updated for March:

http://www.tonymacx86.com/building-customac-buyers-guide-march-2015.html

On another Mac, you create a USB install stick using Unibeast:

http://www.tonymacx86.com/announcements/155558-unibeast-5-1-update.html

After installation, you install third-party drivers & other configuration stuff using Multibeast:

http://www.tonymacx86.com/announcements/156184-multibeast-7-2-update.html

If you read a guide, pick compatible hardware, use Unibeast, and use Multibeast, it's hard to go wrong. The problems come when people go into it blindly or make bad hardware decisions. There's only a limited number of video cards that work really well, for example, and that's what causes most of the headaches. And you're pretty much stuck using Intel processors if you want maximum compatibility with minimum headaches. Clover & stuff like that is available if you want to turn it into a research project (I've used a few different bootloaders...there's others available too), but if you just want a personalized machine on a budget - buy compatible hardware & follow a guide, especially if your computer skills are a bit rusty. Also not sure if this is still relevant, but the boot drive limit was a one-terabyte drive max, so you'd either need a drive that size or smaller, or probably partition off a segment. Been awhile, and I mostly only do smaller 240gb or 500gb SSD's for boot anyway.

3. You can take it one step further & make a "double vanilla" system, which is what I run. That basically means:

1) Using a PCI NIC card & USB sound card (no drivers required)

2) Keeping the bootloader on a USB drive (boots to USB, then the bootloader on the USB boots the hard drive). This keeps all of the Hackintosh stuff off the hard drive.

You can literally swap drives between a real Mac & a Hackintosh this way...there's no Hackintosh drivers or bootloader stuff on the boot drive itself using this method. I like it because then I can tweak things via the USB stick easily. It's not for everyone, but I like it...the hard drive is 100% Mac.

4. There's always the risk that Apple will shut the Hackintosh project down, or switch from OSX to iOS or something crazy, although it would be difficult due to the open-source nature of the base *nix/BSD operating system. I got into Macs just as they were migrating to Intel; my first exposure was working on the porting Windows onto the Intel Macs, and then migrating to the reverse. I've been doing Hackintoshes since Snow Leopard (10.6); they have done zero to stop it, aside from shutting down people who were commercially selling pre-loaded systems (Psystar), but they haven't stopped anyone from selling enablers commercially (EFI-X boot chip & Quo modified motherboards). My suspicion is that in the spirit of hacking that led to Apple's creation, they're leaving it alone (partly thanks to the Woz, I'd imagine), as well as for the legal openness of the underlying Unix stuff. So there's a risk, but it's been years with no issues, so as long as you're not selling it commercially, it's been a non-issue.

5. There are a lot of politics in the Hackintosh world, which is somewhat odd as the other projects I've been involved in (mostly open-source stuff) are typically far more unified from a community POV. I got a lot of hate mail for writing some step-by-step guides & making software with other devs (like 1-click) to make things easier...a lot of the people in the original group felt that Hackintosh needed to be done manually through endless manually-typed commands & whatnot because they viewed it as a learning experience; however, some people just want a fast, cheap Mac & don't want to learn the nuts & bolts, which is fine - different people have different goals, and not everyone wants to become a master of the inner-workings of OSX. You kind of have to figure out what level you want to approach this project at: turnkey, tinker, developer, etc.

Anyway, once the software idea caught on, a lot of competing groups came out with their own versions of the software, and for some reason got all up in arms about it, which is kind of silly since everyone is working towards the same goal on a volunteer basis, and was really unfortunate because there were a lot of talented developers who chose not to work with each other, so now we have a zillion different software packages available But politics aside, there are a lot of approaches to setting up a Hackintosh:

1) The manual way (using a lot of Terminal commands)
2) The hardcore developer way (creating custom DSDT's & SSDT's & really digging into the lower-level hardware type of stuff)
3) The pre-made installer CD way (Kalyway, iDeneb, iPC, iAtkos, Leo4All, etc.)
4) The software package way (Tonymac, myHack, Kakewalk, etc.)
5) The hardware way (EFI-X, Quo Computer, BIOS mods, etc.)
6) The alternative bootloader way (Clover, Chameleon, rEFIt, etc.)

And probably some more I can't think of off the top of my head. It all depends on what you want to do. If you want to make it your hobby, there's a ton of options available. I did, for awhile, but eventually got burnt out (sorry guys). If you want something turnkey, Tonymac is definitely the easiest & most fleshed-out system available. If you want to do a little bit of development, the Hackintosh tools are incredible these days - stuff like Pandora's Box, Hackintosh Vietnam, OZMTool, etc.

6. My opinion is this: Apple makes fabulous hardware and they charge a premium for it; that's great, if it fits your budget & you don't like to tinker, because they are as turnkey as you can get. If you would like a more customized system & are on a budget, Hackintosh is a really fun route if you're either (1) willing to follow a guy & buy the right parts, or (2) are willing to play with it until it does work. Like I said, there are a lot of great tools available now...my first guide was 15 or 20 pages long of ridiculous strings of commands; now you can simply stick in a USB stick, push a button, and you can now boot into OSX to install on a PC, it's amazing! So building a Hackintosh is not without risk or effort, but the reward can be hundreds or thousands of dollars in cost savings, a fun experience, and a machine built exactly to your specifications, one that you can repair yourself without having to take it to an Apple store. Those things are really appealing to me.

Honestly it's been awhile since I built a new machine...my old Hack has been working flawlessly for many years now, no need to upgrade (I think it has 32 gigs of RAM or something nutty), plus I can just add a faster chip or a bigger SSD down the road if I need to, you know? So that's nice. Just make sure you think about all of the stuff above...if your goal is simply to have a DIY budget Mac, then I'd go with the Tonymac stuff since it's all laid out on a silver platter for you (that's what I use on my main rig).

 

[bmacd]

I was on the fence about switching over to the Mac/OSX platform, so I started on a hackintosh that I bought off of Craigslist. It was great for me - the Mac setup at a fraction of the price. If you compare Mac prices to PC prices, you'll find that Mac stuff has today's prices with technology from 2 years ago. It's hard to swallow knowing how inexpensive the PC stuff can be.

I bought a Hackintosh for my father in law; he hated it. Something was always wrong, and I'm convinced that if I had gotten him an actual Mac, he wouldn't have had half of the issues.

I just recently bought my first real Mac - a Mac Mini. I love everything about it.

If you're on the fence about buying a Mac and want to try it out, go for the Hackintosh. If you want to save yourself the trouble of constantly trying to fix driver issues, buy a Mac.

 

[Emulex]

Mac Pro's can also run ESXi to virtualize both OSX and Windows/linux/freebsd legit! Plus i threw in a M5014 Raid controller (megaraid) and a $100 10gbe nic to really spiff it up. I mean $377 for a quad-core nehalem built with stylish case is not a lot of cash to throw at it! Plus you don't have to deal with pages of hacks!

It's all about just wanting to use the PC or wanting to dick around with settings and glitches! Time is money for many of us!

 

[Childs]

Mac Pro's can also run ESXi to virtualize both OSX and Windows/linux/freebsd legit! Plus i threw in a M5014 Raid controller (megaraid) and a $100 10gbe nic to really spiff it up. I mean $377 for a quad-core nehalem built with stylish case is not a lot of cash to throw at it! Plus you don't have to deal with pages of hacks!

It's all about just wanting to use the PC or wanting to dick around with settings and glitches! Time is money for many of us!

What 10GbE card did you get?

 

[Emulex]

solarflare SN6121F with 10gbase-SR dual optics for $100 ebay. Drivers work excellent and are free for OSX!

 

[Rakehellion]

A hackintosh is, as the name suggests, a hack. Don't build one as your main machine. You can't get a perfectly fine Mac for about $500 if you shop around.

Also Apple.com has a refurbished store where you can buy used Macs with the full warranty.