Talking Taiwan

[igor_kavinski]

They saw what China has done with Hong Kong.

And what they continue to do with certain minority groups. They are inhuman dickless power grubbers.

 

[akugami]

And what they continue to do with certain minority groups. They are inhuman dickless power grubbers.

I am of Chinese descent. The only thing I will say is to not ostracize an entire people.

With an authoritarian government, their actions does not always represent the people. There are many Chinese in China who disagree with such actions. But when you're in China, what can you do?

 

[igor_kavinski]

But when you're in China, what can you do?

Revolt

 

[MrSquished]

I'm telling you guys, if we think China is a big threat, we must pre-emptively strike first! I've heard it here from the smartest!

 

[rommelrommel]

Taiwan is Chinese that fled the revolution (simplified version). Is the eyes of the Chinese at least some of those that fled are criminals (if any are still alive).

Yes, Taiwan has been busy arming, but have they been busy trying to get into the UN, who does not recognize them as a country? Why isn't the west making similar noises about Hong Kong?

Taiwan is more like PR or the USVI arming against the US and expecting international assistance. OK, not exactly, but still ...

Ukraine was a well established independent nation and has a much better case for assistance.

I know you aren't a useful idiot, but you're making useful idiot arguments.

Taiwan has been de facto independent for almost 75 years.

Giving Hong Kong back has ended up being a mistake. Should have taken a vote for independence and dared the PRC to use force.

Now that we know that PRC promises to regions they view as theirs aren't worth spit, why let them get Taiwan on the cheap?

 

[iRONic]

I know you aren't a useful idiot, but you're making useful idiot arguments.

Yeah, no. They kinda are.

 

[akugami]

I know you aren't a useful idiot, but you're making useful idiot arguments.

Taiwan has been de facto independent for almost 75 years.

Giving Hong Kong back has ended up being a mistake. Should have taken a vote for independence and dared the PRC to use force.

Now that we know that PRC promises to regions they view as theirs aren't worth spit, why let them get Taiwan on the cheap?

Slightly different situation with Hong Kong vs Taiwan.

Without getting into too much history, there is some argument that the true China is actually Taiwan. And there is some legitimacy to Taiwan and PRC being as one. I mean, aside from the locals in Taiwan, there was an influx of mainland Chinese that went to Taiwan due to a civil war. Much like we can argue that had the south won in the US civil war, and taken over the country, they'd be the true USA.

Getting back to Hong Kong for a moment, HK was never free territory and never belonged to Britain. It was leased land. Qing Dynasty China was basically forced at gunpoint to lease land to European empires such as Britain and Germany due to having lost the opium wars. Keeping in mind that it was a lease, Britain legally had to return it to China. Though one can argue HK was leased from the Qing Dynasty and not the current incarnation of China. Had HK tried to secede or if Britain had tried to retain HK after the lease was over, I truly believe China would have gone to war over it.

 

[rommelrommel]

Sure, the HK lease wasn't really British, but they could have set up an independent state well prior to the end of the lease and dared China to fight for it. At the very least the mask would have been completely off decades earlier.

 

[cytg111]

Reminds me of Catalonia, how would the west handle a situation like this?

Civilized it seems. Difference is of course Taiwan is not breaking away today, that was 75 years ago. Taking back old empire dirt by force is very much a Putinistic idea.

Want Taiwan back? Give them a better deal. Otherwise fuck off.

Catalonia Can’t Quit Madrid

But separatist parties hope upcoming elections will revitalize the independence movement.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[sdifox]

Reminds me of Catalonia, how would the west handle a situation like this?

Civilized it seems. Difference is of course Taiwan is not breaking away today, that was 75 years ago. Taking back old empire dirt by force is very much a Putinistic idea.

Want Taiwan back? Give them a better deal. Otherwise fuck off.

Catalonia Can’t Quit Madrid

But separatist parties hope upcoming elections will revitalize the independence movement.

foreignpolicy.com

ROC didn't break away. Mao started a new country called PRC.

 

[K1052]

Reminds me of Catalonia, how would the west handle a situation like this?

Civilized it seems. Difference is of course Taiwan is not breaking away today, that was 75 years ago. Taking back old empire dirt by force is very much a Putinistic idea.

Want Taiwan back? Give them a better deal. Otherwise fuck off.

Catalonia Can’t Quit Madrid

But separatist parties hope upcoming elections will revitalize the independence movement.

foreignpolicy.com

Fascinating the impression Brexit has made on separatists across Europe lol.

 

[Oric]

The US will defend Taiwan with everything they have against China and at any cost. Taiwan is way too important to the US because of TSMC and no way they're letting them fall into China's hands.

So what, the ASML and the likes produce new tech every 3-4 years. Without manufacturing the chip manufacturing machines, it is a temporary win, also people and know how are required to operate the fabs, which will not be there. (assuming the fabs are not blown up at the last second)

It is, a geopolitical strategy issue, assume there were a dozen of Cubas surrounding United States on 3 fronts (Atlantic, Pacific and the Carribean), you would not behave much different.

 

[akugami]

Just as a note, part of what makes Taiwan so important is all of the chip manufacturing in Taiwan.

It is monumentally stupid for the US to not manufacture critical military grade equipment inside the US. We're not talking about a new jacket, shirt, or consumer hardware like a vacuum cleaner. We're talking computer chips used to power critical infrastructure (both military and civilian) as well as weapons.

 

[K1052]

Just as a note, part of what makes Taiwan so important is all of the chip manufacturing in Taiwan.

It is monumentally stupid for the US to not manufacture critical military grade equipment inside the US. We're not talking about a new jacket, shirt, or consumer hardware like a vacuum cleaner. We're talking computer chips used to power critical infrastructure (both military and civilian) as well as weapons.

TBF we are now dumping an assload of money into onshoring this capability.

 

[cytg111]

Just as a note, part of what makes Taiwan so important is all of the chip manufacturing in Taiwan.

It is monumentally stupid for the US to not manufacture critical military grade equipment inside the US. We're not talking about a new jacket, shirt, or consumer hardware like a vacuum cleaner. We're talking computer chips used to power critical infrastructure (both military and civilian) as well as weapons.

Well Intel was the leader of the pack for decades ... until it stumbled a couple of times.

 

[dainthomas]

Slightly different situation with Hong Kong vs Taiwan.

Without getting into too much history, there is some argument that the true China is actually Taiwan. And there is some legitimacy to Taiwan and PRC being as one. I mean, aside from the locals in Taiwan, there was an influx of mainland Chinese that went to Taiwan due to a civil war. Much like we can argue that had the south won in the US civil war, and taken over the country, they'd be the true USA.

Getting back to Hong Kong for a moment, HK was never free territory and never belonged to Britain. It was leased land. Qing Dynasty China was basically forced at gunpoint to lease land to European empires such as Britain and Germany due to having lost the opium wars. Keeping in mind that it was a lease, Britain legally had to return it to China. Though one can argue HK was leased from the Qing Dynasty and not the current incarnation of China. Had HK tried to secede or if Britain had tried to retain HK after the lease was over, I truly believe China would have gone to war over it.

Hong Kong island was ceded in perpetuity and was a crown colony. The British could have set up an indepence vote on just the island, or kept it and dared China to take it from them (and involve NATO). Not sure China would start a full on war with NATO over 30 sq miles.

 

[m8d]

 

[kage69]

China invading Taiwan would be suicide. America would nuke them before letting them take Taiwan.

I feel both of these statements are incorrect.

A failed invasion would be fatal to the CCP perhaps, but not China. While we don't currently have a No First Use policy, I haven't seen anything, anywhere, from anyone, that would indicate we are willing to start a thermonuclear conflict with China over Taiwan. Responding to China using nuclear weapons against Japan, well, that's different.

China sees taking Taiwan as a matter of face but also a key to unlocking their destiny of Pacific hegemony, also replacing the post WWII world order. IIRC they told Japan they consider Taiwan worthy of Chinese nukes being used. Conditions both political and practical mean if they're going to do it they've got a window open to about 2027, supposedly. Things get a lot harder after that I guess. I've heard several people of note say their money is on 2025 being when Xi pounces. We'll see.

It's a shame Xi doesn't concern himself with carving up the vulnerable turkey on his doorstep, rather than trying to hunt a heavily armed porcupine. One with friends, a fortress and a bitchin moat no less.

CCP and face tho, it's like if short man syndrome was a government. How short? Ron DeSantis short, Putin short.

 

[sdifox]

Hong Kong island was ceded in perpetuity and was a crown colony. The British could have set up an indepence vote on just the island, or kept it and dared China to take it from them (and involve NATO). Not sure China would start a full on war with NATO over 30 sq miles.

99 year lease for the New Territory, HK Island and Kawloon was perpetuity. But since NT is 86.2% of total area, there is no viable way to keep HK Island and Kawloon.

 

[Jaskalas]

Xi warned Biden during summit that Beijing will reunify Taiwan with China​

China is essentially vowing to kill the people of Taiwan. Who is going to stop them?

 

[sdifox]

Xi warned Biden during summit that Beijing will reunify Taiwan with China​

China is essentially vowing to kill the people of Taiwan. Who is going to stop them?

Yawn. That is the same rhetoric since 1949. ROC (well Kuomingtan) used to pretend they will retake the mainland. They have stopped pretending some decades back.