Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I just love the jackholes who come in this thread and bitch and moan about "Oh! Stop blaming Bush for everything! Oh the noes, Bush caused the hurricane 'cause he is God." Blah, blah, blobbity blah. I hope you know who you are and what jackholes you sound like when you sit there and apologize for the incompetent federal response with your lame diversion of blaming the mayor/gov. You people are a 180-degree mirror image of the "dirty libs" you're fighting against. Pathetic. Fact is, blame can be leveled up and down the political spectrum, but hey, here's a novel concept -- we have agencies like FEMA and DHS for a very good reason. That reason being: when disasters strike, whether natural or terrorist, local agencies and government are often overwhelmed and unable to respond effectively. That seems like a self-evident logical explanation to most of us around here with more than two brain cells to rub together and yet there are some dense, very dense skulls around here who can't seem to comprehend.
WASHINGTON (AP) _ In a March 1 story, The Associated Press reported that federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees in New Orleans, citing confidential video footage of an Aug. 28 briefing among U.S. officials.
The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun. The story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees, rather than the levees breaking.
The day before the storm hit, Bush was told there were grave concerns that the levees could be overrun. It wasn't until the next morning, as the storm was hitting, that Michael Brown, then head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said Bush had inquired about reports of breaches. Bush did not participate in that briefing.
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Associated Press Clarification: Katrina-Video story
WASHINGTON (AP) _ In a March 1 story, The Associated Press reported that federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees in New Orleans, citing confidential video footage of an Aug. 28 briefing among U.S. officials.
The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun. The story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees, rather than the levees breaking.
The day before the storm hit, Bush was told there were grave concerns that the levees could be overrun. It wasn't until the next morning, as the storm was hitting, that Michael Brown, then head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said Bush had inquired about reports of breaches. Bush did not participate in that briefing.
AP?s clarification of the OP, not that it really matters to many around here, good to see the AP own up to its own misleading story however.
Although many critics on the right have been harshly criticizing a recent Associated Press article for 'misreporting' that President Bush, despite stating otherwise, had been warned that Hurricane Katrina might breach levees, the A.P. fires back by using the White House's own 'lessons learned' review, RAW STORY has found.
Late Friday night, the Associated Press issued a clarification to their March 1 story, after being attacked by many on the right for initially reporting "federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees" when the released partial transcripts to the leaked video only specifically mentioned "overtopping."
But the A.P. cites a report issued by the White House called "The Federal Response to Hurricane Katrina: Lessons Learned" which compares the two terms.
"Overtopping is a term used to describe the situation where the water level rises above the height of the levee or floodwall and consequently overtops, or flows over the structure. A breach is a break in the levee or floodwall. A prolonged overtopping can actually cause a levee or floodwall breach," the review said.
"In general, a breach can lead to more significant flooding than an overtopping since breaches take time to repair and until repaired continue to allow water to flow until the water level has receded below the height of the breach. Overtopping, on the other hand, will stop as soon as the water level recedes below the top of the levee or floodwall."
"Although the consequences are significantly different, from outward appearances, it is often difficult to differentiate a breach from an overtopping," the report said.
In addition, the A.P. article also refer to interviews with officials from the Corps of Engineers and former FEMA chief Michael D. Brown to show that the debate over the two terms is more of "a matter of semantics."
According to A.P., Brown told a Denver radio station on Monday, "I can tell you everyone involved in that videotape and in my conversations with the president and with the chief of staff, our concern was always the breach of the levees."
Excerpts from the article, "Tapes Refresh Debate Over Katrina, Levees," by Tom Raum:
#
But civil engineers understand that once a levee is "topped," floodwaters can rapidly erode the structural base of the levee and nearly always result in a breach, according to AP interviews with officials from the Corps of Engineers and others.
The White House's own "lessons learned" review of the federal response issued last month compared overtopping to a breach of a levee.
....
In a document it called "Setting the Record Straight," the White House said Bush's Aug. 28 videoconference "was open to the press and the full transcript of this videoconference was released to Congress and the public in the fall of 2005."
However, only the opening portion of the conference, where Bush made brief remarks, was witnessed by a small news media pool. And full transcripts of that and other sessions were not released by either the administration or Congress.
Brown said Bush and other top officials knew from those briefings there was a serious chance that New Orleans' levees would be breached. "Everybody else knew and clearly on our conference calls it was being discussed," Brown said in a March 1 interview with The Associated Press.
#
The federal "Lessons Learned" report can be read at this link.
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Associated Press Clarification: Katrina-Video story
WASHINGTON (AP) _ In a March 1 story, The Associated Press reported that federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees in New Orleans, citing confidential video footage of an Aug. 28 briefing among U.S. officials.
The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun. The story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees, rather than the levees breaking.
The day before the storm hit, Bush was told there were grave concerns that the levees could be overrun. It wasn't until the next morning, as the storm was hitting, that Michael Brown, then head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said Bush had inquired about reports of breaches. Bush did not participate in that briefing.
AP?s clarification of the OP, not that it really matters to many around here, good to see the AP own up to its own misleading story however.
<AHEM>
http://rawstory.com/news/2006/AP_White_House_compared_overtopping_to_0308.html
Although many critics on the right have been harshly criticizing a recent Associated Press article for 'misreporting' that President Bush, despite stating otherwise, had been warned that Hurricane Katrina might breach levees, the A.P. fires back by using the White House's own 'lessons learned' review, RAW STORY has found.
Late Friday night, the Associated Press issued a clarification to their March 1 story, after being attacked by many on the right for initially reporting "federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees" when the released partial transcripts to the leaked video only specifically mentioned "overtopping."
But the A.P. cites a report issued by the White House called "The Federal Response to Hurricane Katrina: Lessons Learned" which compares the two terms.
"Overtopping is a term used to describe the situation where the water level rises above the height of the levee or floodwall and consequently overtops, or flows over the structure. A breach is a break in the levee or floodwall. A prolonged overtopping can actually cause a levee or floodwall breach," the review said.
"In general, a breach can lead to more significant flooding than an overtopping since breaches take time to repair and until repaired continue to allow water to flow until the water level has receded below the height of the breach. Overtopping, on the other hand, will stop as soon as the water level recedes below the top of the levee or floodwall."
"Although the consequences are significantly different, from outward appearances, it is often difficult to differentiate a breach from an overtopping," the report said.
In addition, the A.P. article also refer to interviews with officials from the Corps of Engineers and former FEMA chief Michael D. Brown to show that the debate over the two terms is more of "a matter of semantics."
According to A.P., Brown told a Denver radio station on Monday, "I can tell you everyone involved in that videotape and in my conversations with the president and with the chief of staff, our concern was always the breach of the levees."
Excerpts from the article, "Tapes Refresh Debate Over Katrina, Levees," by Tom Raum:
#
But civil engineers understand that once a levee is "topped," floodwaters can rapidly erode the structural base of the levee and nearly always result in a breach, according to AP interviews with officials from the Corps of Engineers and others.
The White House's own "lessons learned" review of the federal response issued last month compared overtopping to a breach of a levee.
....
In a document it called "Setting the Record Straight," the White House said Bush's Aug. 28 videoconference "was open to the press and the full transcript of this videoconference was released to Congress and the public in the fall of 2005."
However, only the opening portion of the conference, where Bush made brief remarks, was witnessed by a small news media pool. And full transcripts of that and other sessions were not released by either the administration or Congress.
Brown said Bush and other top officials knew from those briefings there was a serious chance that New Orleans' levees would be breached. "Everybody else knew and clearly on our conference calls it was being discussed," Brown said in a March 1 interview with The Associated Press.
#
The federal "Lessons Learned" report can be read at this link.
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Associated Press Clarification: Katrina-Video story
WASHINGTON (AP) _ In a March 1 story, The Associated Press reported that federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees in New Orleans, citing confidential video footage of an Aug. 28 briefing among U.S. officials.
The Army Corps of Engineers considers a breach a hole developing in a levee rather than an overrun. The story should have made clear that Bush was warned about floodwaters overrunning the levees, rather than the levees breaking.
The day before the storm hit, Bush was told there were grave concerns that the levees could be overrun. It wasn't until the next morning, as the storm was hitting, that Michael Brown, then head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said Bush had inquired about reports of breaches. Bush did not participate in that briefing.
AP?s clarification of the OP, not that it really matters to many around here, good to see the AP own up to its own misleading story however.
<AHEM>
http://rawstory.com/news/2006/AP_White_House_compared_overtopping_to_0308.html
Although many critics on the right have been harshly criticizing a recent Associated Press article for 'misreporting' that President Bush, despite stating otherwise, had been warned that Hurricane Katrina might breach levees, the A.P. fires back by using the White House's own 'lessons learned' review, RAW STORY has found.
Late Friday night, the Associated Press issued a clarification to their March 1 story, after being attacked by many on the right for initially reporting "federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees" when the released partial transcripts to the leaked video only specifically mentioned "overtopping."
But the A.P. cites a report issued by the White House called "The Federal Response to Hurricane Katrina: Lessons Learned" which compares the two terms.
"Overtopping is a term used to describe the situation where the water level rises above the height of the levee or floodwall and consequently overtops, or flows over the structure. A breach is a break in the levee or floodwall. A prolonged overtopping can actually cause a levee or floodwall breach," the review said.
"In general, a breach can lead to more significant flooding than an overtopping since breaches take time to repair and until repaired continue to allow water to flow until the water level has receded below the height of the breach. Overtopping, on the other hand, will stop as soon as the water level recedes below the top of the levee or floodwall."
"Although the consequences are significantly different, from outward appearances, it is often difficult to differentiate a breach from an overtopping," the report said.
In addition, the A.P. article also refer to interviews with officials from the Corps of Engineers and former FEMA chief Michael D. Brown to show that the debate over the two terms is more of "a matter of semantics."
According to A.P., Brown told a Denver radio station on Monday, "I can tell you everyone involved in that videotape and in my conversations with the president and with the chief of staff, our concern was always the breach of the levees."
Excerpts from the article, "Tapes Refresh Debate Over Katrina, Levees," by Tom Raum:
#
But civil engineers understand that once a levee is "topped," floodwaters can rapidly erode the structural base of the levee and nearly always result in a breach, according to AP interviews with officials from the Corps of Engineers and others.
The White House's own "lessons learned" review of the federal response issued last month compared overtopping to a breach of a levee.
....
In a document it called "Setting the Record Straight," the White House said Bush's Aug. 28 videoconference "was open to the press and the full transcript of this videoconference was released to Congress and the public in the fall of 2005."
However, only the opening portion of the conference, where Bush made brief remarks, was witnessed by a small news media pool. And full transcripts of that and other sessions were not released by either the administration or Congress.
Brown said Bush and other top officials knew from those briefings there was a serious chance that New Orleans' levees would be breached. "Everybody else knew and clearly on our conference calls it was being discussed," Brown said in a March 1 interview with The Associated Press.
#
The federal "Lessons Learned" report can be read at this link.
That really says nothing at all to the AP's clarification of what I posted. Brown can say all he wants about "serious chances" even in light of Mayfield's model of "minimal flooding", but that video doesn?t call into question that there will be a breach. Consequently, the AP points out there mistake clearly, and rightly so, as a concern for an overrun.
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: conjur
It was before his photo op overflight and AFTER the city was flooded.
And, virtual meetings? Pffft...yeah, right.
At least now we see how people can think things like Saddam was behind 9/11. With people as gullible to Rush and Hannity like palehorse is, anything is possible!
In the very timeline that YOU YOURSELF just linked to above, it is abundantly clear that Bush himself, and his entire admin, was involved from the very beginning with Katrina! Even prior!
He was engaged in fulltime communications with all of the parties involved, and he stayed on top of it throughout the entire week! Your very own link shows that!
like i said, spin much?!
In my opinion, he did all that a President can and shiould do in such an event. This was a natural disaster ffs! The key to the entire event is in learning from the mistakes and not repeating in the future should another catastrophe ever occur.
Yes, mistakes were amde, but HOPEFULLY we learned from them and will do a little better next time. Blaming every mistake on Bush is just plain childish.
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: conjur
It was before his photo op overflight and AFTER the city was flooded.
And, virtual meetings? Pffft...yeah, right.
At least now we see how people can think things like Saddam was behind 9/11. With people as gullible to Rush and Hannity like palehorse is, anything is possible!
In the very timeline that YOU YOURSELF just linked to above, it is abundantly clear that Bush himself, and his entire admin, was involved from the very beginning with Katrina! Even prior!
He was engaged in fulltime communications with all of the parties involved, and he stayed on top of it throughout the entire week! Your very own link shows that!
like i said, spin much?!
In my opinion, he did all that a President can and shiould do in such an event. This was a natural disaster ffs! The key to the entire event is in learning from the mistakes and not repeating in the future should another catastrophe ever occur.
Yes, mistakes were amde, but HOPEFULLY we learned from them and will do a little better next time. Blaming every mistake on Bush is just plain childish.
WOW.. amazing
Do you realize the BS this creep did while REAL AMERICANS WERE DROWNING AND DYING ON OUR SOIL
Play around on his GEETAR and PLAY AROUND ON HIS RANCH and pat folks on the back and say they are doing great jobs.. etc etc
And FEMA and DHS were TURNING AWAY HELP AND SUPPLIES
Whatever
The point is he completely failed to provide the leadership needed to break down bureaucratic barriers and moblize the resources so desperately needed to save lives. I'm always astounded that the Bush faithful brag about what a great, strong, decisive "leader" Bush is when examples like this prove exactly the opposite.Originally posted by: palehorse74
he was ALSO in constant communication with the major forces involved in the response...every day... so your point is what exactly?Originally posted by: dahunan
WOW.. amazing
Do you realize the BS this creep did while REAL AMERICANS WERE DROWNING AND DYING ON OUR SOIL
Play around on his GEETAR and PLAY AROUND ON HIS RANCH and pat folks on the back and say they are doing great jobs.. etc etc
And FEMA and DHS were TURNING AWAY HELP AND SUPPLIES
Whatever
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: conjur
It was before his photo op overflight and AFTER the city was flooded.
And, virtual meetings? Pffft...yeah, right.
At least now we see how people can think things like Saddam was behind 9/11. With people as gullible to Rush and Hannity like palehorse is, anything is possible!
In the very timeline that YOU YOURSELF just linked to above, it is abundantly clear that Bush himself, and his entire admin, was involved from the very beginning with Katrina! Even prior!
He was engaged in fulltime communications with all of the parties involved, and he stayed on top of it throughout the entire week! Your very own link shows that!
like i said, spin much?!
In my opinion, he did all that a President can and shiould do in such an event. This was a natural disaster ffs! The key to the entire event is in learning from the mistakes and not repeating in the future should another catastrophe ever occur.
Yes, mistakes were amde, but HOPEFULLY we learned from them and will do a little better next time. Blaming every mistake on Bush is just plain childish.
WOW.. amazing
Do you realize the BS this creep did while REAL AMERICANS WERE DROWNING AND DYING ON OUR SOIL
Play around on his GEETAR and PLAY AROUND ON HIS RANCH and pat folks on the back and say they are doing great jobs.. etc etc
And FEMA and DHS were TURNING AWAY HELP AND SUPPLIES
Whatever
he was ALSO in constant communication with the major forces involved in the response...every day... so your point is what exactly?