Tazed 5 times. lol

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Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
Only fool is you. In the old days cop would knock teeth out and break your orbital bones with club and charge you with resisting while laying in hospital. Now it's just taze and no one gets hurt. FYI tazers do not hurt they disable peripheral nervous system and drop you. It's all over in minutes.

Yeah.. except for when they kill you...

A taser is a replacement for a bullet, not a replacement for police work. Does this drunk imbecile deserve to be shot? He likely had an ass whooping coming but the disregard people show is kind of sad.. They are not intended to be used against non compliance because a cop is lazy.. they are to defend against violent assault.

One shock in that situation is plenty... more than 3 and they are lucky the fellow isn't dead. They are not magical fuzzy bunny rays, they are lethal weapons that police really need to start getting trained on better.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Oh I think this is pretty amusing. And I think it is amusing he complied with the officer everytime the tazer went off hehe.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
Yeah.. except for when they kill you...

A taser is a replacement for a bullet, not a replacement for police work. Does this drunk imbecile deserve to be shot? He likely had an ass whooping coming but the disregard people show is kind of sad.. They are not intended to be used against non compliance because a cop is lazy.. they are to defend against violent assault.

One shock in that situation is plenty... more than 3 and they are lucky the fellow isn't dead. They are not magical fuzzy bunny rays, they are lethal weapons that police really need to start getting trained on better.

Meh, sure would be better for him to get into a struggle with a drunk imbecile, possibly lose his weapon, and we on the other end of his own gun. Those are probably the worst IFs imaginable, but no less, when you should comply... you should comply. The officer stood back, issued commands, and the suspect didn't respond as he should've. When he did, the officer stopped, set the tazer down, and cuffed him.

And while a tazer can kill someone, I would bet most are designed to be a much more non-lethal weapon than what you suggest.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
Meh, sure would be better for him to get into a struggle with a drunk imbecile, possibly lose his weapon, and we on the other end of his own gun. Those are probably the worst IFs imaginable, but no less, when you should comply... you should comply. The officer stood back, issued commands, and the suspect didn't respond as he should've. When he did, the officer stopped, set the tazer down, and cuffed him.

And while a tazer can kill someone, I would bet most are designed to be a much more non-lethal weapon than what you suggest.

Canadian police forces are instructed to only use them in place of a gun. They have the exact same restrictions and occupy the same place on the escalation of force charts. They are very handy weapons when used properly but entirely over used likely due to the propaganda on their safety. Specially given the recent recommendation by our review into the Vancouver airport incident that the police officers there be charged they are not at all treated as non lethal.

Frankly I'd be surprised if good old physical force (when properly applied) were not drastically less lethal than multiple tazer blasts. I'd have hard time thinking an officer would have too much trouble with someone so drunk they can't understand simple commands. A bruise and a tackle may not look as neat and tidy, but we let kids play football, why is it so bad?
 
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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Meh, sure would be better for him to get into a struggle with a drunk imbecile, possibly lose his weapon, and we on the other end of his own gun. Those are probably the worst IFs imaginable, but no less, when you should comply... you should comply. The officer stood back, issued commands, and the suspect didn't respond as he should've. When he did, the officer stopped, set the tazer down, and cuffed him.

And while a tazer can kill someone, I would bet most are designed to be a much more non-lethal weapon than what you suggest.

Yep. Most electric stun systems like that are not lethal in the least.
Electricity in the human body is fairly predictable. Our body functions using the principal of electron sharing and metal ions.
With the right voltages and amperage, researchers essentially know exactly what is going to happen.

And hell, when someone resists an officer, they know exactly what they are getting into. Officers are not going to just talk kindly to you, hoping you'll cooperate and if you don't, they just give up and walk away. No, you're going to get hurt, bad.
In every single case of resisting arrest, regardless by what means an officer subdues an offender, the chance of serious physical harm, even death or coma, is always present. When attempting to restrain a person, a cop might tackle someone and their head could strike pavement the wrong way, or the body just falls the wrong way, and boom - serious medical complication from a routine maneuver. It has happened. So what do officers do?
Use whatever provides the lowest chances of lasting physical damage to the offender, and least chance of harm to the officer on scene. Guess what that is?
The Tazer brand is quite popular for that very reason.

Personally, I have seen some cases where officers are on a power trip, or just lose control of the situation and go above and beyond what is necessary.
The officer in the OP's video? Calm, restrained, acted appropriately.
Honestly, he could have easily used physical force to restrain the guy after the second or third shock.
But when someone doesn't cooperate after a taser shock, when you are the one person near them and trying to subdue them, you are a little confused and certainly a little worried. Your own safety is on the line at all times in this cases, and while we know the outcome, don't apply hindsight here. We see many cases of assault against an officer, and it definitely happens more often when the offender is under the influence of any chemical, like alcohol in this instance. Officers are almost always under threat, even if minimal, and most often they do use violence in an appropriate manner.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
Yep. Most electric stun systems like that are not lethal in the least.
Electricity in the human body is fairly predictable. Our body functions using the principal of electron sharing and metal ions.
With the right voltages and amperage, researchers essentially know exactly what is going to happen.

That is BS. Violence is surely required in many situations, I do not dispute that. Tasers are simply not as safe as people woudl like us to believe. One can not predict how each human body will react to extreme stress. Whether the electrical current is enough to out right destroy nerves or not makes no difference. Folks die all the time while chemically bearing no difference to a living person.. knowing if a stressor is going to result in immediate deterministic effects is wholly insignificant. If that were the case we could easily allow thousands of times the radiation into our water than we do without 'worrying'.
 

D1gger

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,411
2
76
That is BS. Violence is surely required in many situations, I do not dispute that. Tasers are simply not as safe as people woudl like us to believe. One can not predict how each human body will react to extreme stress. Whether the electrical current is enough to out right destroy nerves or not makes no difference. Folks die all the time while chemically bearing no difference to a living person.. knowing if a stressor is going to result in immediate deterministic effects is wholly insignificant. If that were the case we could easily allow thousands of times the radiation into our water than we do without 'worrying'.

I personally would rather see non-compliant offenders tazed (and in some rare cases die) than see our police officers forced to get into physical confrontations where they risk injury (and in some rare cases death) to subdue these offenders.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
I personally would rather see non-compliant offenders tazed (and in some rare cases die) than see our police officers forced to get into physical confrontations where they risk injury (and in some rare cases death) to subdue these offenders.

I wouldn't rather the tazed person die, I'd rather they just shut up and listen.

But if you don't listen, something has to be done. No perfect solution.
 

jersiq

Senior member
May 18, 2005
887
1
0
...

Frankly I'd be surprised if good old physical force (when properly applied) were not drastically less lethal than multiple tazer blasts. I'd have hard time thinking an officer would have too much trouble with someone so drunk they can't understand simple commands. A bruise and a tackle may not look as neat and tidy, but we let kids play football, why is it so bad?

I don't think I am taking you out of context, if so, mea culpa.
In this video the suspect was belligerent but seemingly capable of understanding simple commands.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
That is BS. Violence is surely required in many situations, I do not dispute that. Tasers are simply not as safe as people woudl like us to believe. One can not predict how each human body will react to extreme stress. Whether the electrical current is enough to out right destroy nerves or not makes no difference. Folks die all the time while chemically bearing no difference to a living person.. knowing if a stressor is going to result in immediate deterministic effects is wholly insignificant. If that were the case we could easily allow thousands of times the radiation into our water than we do without 'worrying'.

Just a quick google search prompted the results of which you speak. Though, one such incident was a man trying to evict the devil from his wife (high on cocaine) who was tased and died from heart complications. IMO, that seems as if his circumstances were altered by his own past (and present) behavior.

At any rate, according to this article (http://www.seattlepi.com/local/201827_taser01.html), in 4 years (2000 to 2004) there have been 78 incidents where suspects have died after being tased.

Right at about 20 deaths per year. I would think that the wrong strike from an officer, or instead having to rely on his service weapon if the situation permits it would yield similar or higher numbers.
 

L1FE

Senior member
Dec 23, 2003
545
0
71
I think it's harder to put down a drunk person than Daedalus685 makes it seem. Considering the cop tazed the guy 5 times and he was still non-compliant gives me the impression that the cop could have wailed on the guy with his fists and still not have gotten him to stop. Considering how unpredictable drug rage can be (flailing arms, resistant to pain, etc), I think the cop correctly used his tazer in this scenario.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
You know I see that and more 3 minutes passed. There was not another cop in the area that couldn't have come and help the cop out? When people are drunk like that they just don't get it.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
I think it's harder to put down a drunk person than Daedalus685 makes it seem. Considering the cop tazed the guy 5 times and he was still non-compliant gives me the impression that the cop could have wailed on the guy with his fists and still not have gotten him to stop. Considering how unpredictable drug rage can be (flailing arms, resistant to pain, etc), I think the cop correctly used his tazer in this scenario.

I do not dispute that a drunk is "hard" to put down.. nor that he may have needed to be responded to with force.. Merely that a taser is NOT a non lethal weapon, despite what we may want to think. It is not a good idea to simply accept them as blanket "you are not complying" response. They are prohibited in most countries around the world, many even for police officers.

5 times is excessive.. if the first couple don't work what is to make you believe the next 3 will? This is certainly not a case of neglect on the part of the officer as was dealt with the Braidwood inquiry but 5 times is pushing what a body can take, whether you are going down or not one of those blasts is going to kill you eventually. At what point do we use traditional force or is it many peoples belief we should do away with it entirely? In this case the chances of death by merely being that wasted are likely rather high, but we should set a precedence at what point exactly a taser is acceptable.. In Canada that precedence is set at the level a fire arm woudl be acceptable, they carry the same paper work. I get the feeling many folks want that level set at any use of force, which I can respect (at some point physical force is required and always carries some risk).. just don't agree with using a taser as such.
 

BlackTigers

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2006
4,491
2
71
I do not dispute that a drunk is "hard" to put down.. nor that he may have needed to be responded to with force.. Merely that a tazer is NOT a non lethal weapon, despite what we may want to think. It is not a good idea to simply accept them as blanket "you are not complying" response. They are prohibited in most countries around the world, many even for police officers.

5 times is excessive.. if the first couple don't work what is to make you believe the next 3 will? This is certainly not a case of neglect on the part of the officer as was dealt with the Braidwood inquary but 5 times is pushing what a body can take, whether you are going down or not one of those blasts is going to kill you eventually. At what point do we use traditional force or is it many peoples belief we should do away with it entirely? In this case teh chances of death by merely beign that wasted are likely rather high, but we shoudl set a precedence at what point exactly a taser is acceptable.. In Canada that precedence is set at the level a fire arm woudl be acceptable, they carry the same paper work. I get the feeling many folks want that level set at any use of force, which I can respect.. just don't agree with.

Actually it did work after the first few times, just took a while to get the idiot to comply.

You must have gone through the taser trainings school.

And I've seen drunks that get fucking crazy and can be impossible to take down, some of them need a lot of force to go down. Hell, my one friend, at about 175, put up such a fight that there needed to be 5 bouncers and a cop to get him out of the bar, while completely obliterated. He wasn't going down.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
Actually it did work after the first few times, just took a while to get the idiot to comply.

You must have gone through the taser trainings school.

And I've seen drunks that get fucking crazy and can be impossible to take down, some of them need a lot of force to go down. Hell, my one friend, at about 175, put up such a fight that there needed to be 5 bouncers and a cop to get him out of the bar, while completely obliterated. He wasn't going down.

Yeah, I have heard stories from the instructors at the police academy about junkies doing a push-up with a coupe cops on top of them to the point they tear their muscles... It is certainly no joke.

But then, is the argument that they are going to get hurt badly anyway so why not use a taser? That just seems like far too slippery of a precedence to set as what defines "out of control intoxicated" in relation to various mental illnesses especially. When one is so out of their mind it is likely the situation will not end well but there needs to be hard cap set on the number of discharges and exactly when it is ok to sue them. Lethal is lethal whether they seem to be ok due to the drugs or are passed out after the first zap. The issue is not whether it 'worked' eventually but with how there are only a finite number of the shocks one can survive. The alcohol/drugs may make it easier to shrug off the effects but that does not mean the subsequent discharges are not as dangerous to them as they would be to an otherwise healthy individual. The body is still in a tremendous amount of stress whether it can be overcome mentally or not.

Police have a tough job.. but a taser is not a suitable replacement for all forms of physical work. Demolition man may yet give us the stun wands though.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
I do not dispute that a drunk is "hard" to put down.. nor that he may have needed to be responded to with force.. Merely that a taser is NOT a non lethal weapon, despite what we may want to think. It is not a good idea to simply accept them as blanket "you are not complying" response. They are prohibited in most countries around the world, many even for police officers.

5 times is excessive.. if the first couple don't work what is to make you believe the next 3 will? This is certainly not a case of neglect on the part of the officer as was dealt with the Braidwood inquiry but 5 times is pushing what a body can take, whether you are going down or not one of those blasts is going to kill you eventually. At what point do we use traditional force or is it many peoples belief we should do away with it entirely? In this case the chances of death by merely being that wasted are likely rather high, but we should set a precedence at what point exactly a taser is acceptable.. In Canada that precedence is set at the level a fire arm woudl be acceptable, they carry the same paper work. I get the feeling many folks want that level set at any use of force, which I can respect (at some point physical force is required and always carries some risk).. just don't agree with using a taser as such.

While five times is excessive, it appeared to me that the suspect was excessive. There was, at first, a physical altercation. The cop could not subdue him. In realizing that the suspect was belligerent, he tased. Problem is, the guy kept trying to get back to his feet. And, point of fact, the fifth one was the charm. At that point, the idiot realizes that this cop is not going to let this go, and he is "down for the count." To me, as the situation escalates, so does the cop's appropriate reaction.

If option A is to tase (again as needed) and option B is to beat the suspect with his baton, what sounds more brutal? Which one puts the cop at great risk? To me, both of those is the baton. The closer he gets, the more options the drunk has to fight back (IE - grab the baton, or kick, or punch, or grab, etc.).

In the interests of the safety of an officer, I say any suspect who doesn't first realize that the first tasing means business, deserves the second, third, fou...
 

Skitzer

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2000
4,414
3
81
Only a drunk moron could take 5 taser shots in a row and still be babbling and talkin' shit. Very intertaining ..... Thanks Nick!
 
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