TDP based turbo and reviews

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sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
149
106
I think what Silverforce meant was where individual cards fall on the scale. Each speed and voltage step will be based on the same table for all cards but individual cards ability to reach certain steps will vary a lot.

Nope. Every card has the same clock table. There is no difference between cards.
 

notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
3,375
0
0
Stock testing of gtx 680's would/should have been done without installing EVGA precision and adjusting any parameters.
Then you have basce clock 1006
Turbo clock 1058
In perfect settings of temperature/TDP there may be another 50mhz from all the sites I read. Who are also still trying to understand and find the correct way to state card behavior.
Worst case almost never will go below 1006 and best case almost never goes above 1100mhz, unless TDP parameters are adjusted or the default fan curve and ambient temperatures are extreme one way or the other. Being hot or cold.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_680/30.html


Temperature

In the briefings NVIDIA mentioned that GPU temperature is taken into account for dynamic overclocking. Wait, what? Will the card run slower when it's running hot ? Yes it does.

The following graph shows how changes in GPU temperature affect the selected clock. We tested this with a static scene that renders the same scene each frame, resulting in constant GPU and memory load, which would otherwise affect this testing.

GPU clock is plotted on the vertical axis using the blue MHz scale on the left. Temperature is plotted on the vertical axis too, using the red °C scale on the right. Time is running on the horizontal axis.



We see a clearly visible downward step pattern on the clock frequency curve as the temperature increases. This is not a gradual change, but the steps happen at what looks like predefined values of 70°C, 80°C, 85°C, 95°C. Once temperature exceeds 98°C, thermal protection will kick in and GPU clock drops like a rock to 536 MHz and then even 176 MHz trying to save the card from overheating.

Each step is 13.5 MHz in size, which results in a total clock difference of 40 MHz going from below 70°C to 95°C - with the exact same rendering load, all happening transparently by the NVIDIA driver.

For end-users this means that to maximize dynamic overclocking potential, they would have to run at temperatures below 70°C. Otherwise they will end up with up to 40 MHz less if their card runs above 90°C. Even users who don't care about manual overclocking will have to consider this. The dynamic overclocking in the driver is always active and can not be turned off.

Performance now being based on temperature will pose an interesting challenge for system assemblers and case manufacturers as they will now have to focus even more on thermals, while still trying to keep noise levels acceptable. How will reviewers test their cards? With an open bench? a normal case? or a worst case [sic] ?

I ran some additional testing with the card's fan speed set to maximum, which results in much lower temperatures of the card, directly increasing performance (without any manual overclocking).



It looks like on average just setting the fan to 100% results in a 0.8% performance increase. Again, this is without any overclocking or other tweaking. 0.8% is not very significant, but it still shows that there is now another variable that needs to be considered when trying to maximize performance. It also means that cases with really bad ventilation will suffer from a (small) performance penalty when a GeForce GTX 680 is installed in the case.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,126
738
126
When you say "vary a lot" you mean you consider a few MHz "a lot"?

There is about a 2 fps difference between stock and -32% TDP according to Anand, is that "a lot" of fps difference, or not "a lot"?

Well that's one card out of thousands. How many cards do you feel is sufficient for a decent sample size?



Nope. Every card has the same clock table. There is no difference between cards.

That is what I said... All cards use the same clock/voltage table (not sure about non-reference though) but each individual card will be able to hit a different level of that table.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
Nope. Every card has the same clock table. There is no difference between cards.

The voltage/multiplier is the same card to card as thats part of the firmware. However every card is unique when it comes to power consumption. Not all cards will be able to go up to the same frequency. So saying they are all the same is wrong.

One card may go to 1058, another card may hit 1200. Person reading the review sees a review of a card that hits 1200, so he goes out and buys one. Then finds out the one they bought only hits 1058, so he ends up with worse performance than he was expecting.
 

Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
1,576
1
0
Then there are people like me that have to deal with a warm computing environment.

What kind of auto-clocking will I get when my ambient room temperature is usually above 70 degrees?
 

notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
3,375
0
0
Then there are people like me that have to deal with a warm computing environment.

What kind of auto-clocking will I get when my ambient room temperature is usually above 70 degrees?

Auto clocking won't go below 1000mhz unless you are up above 80c, and if you are, then o/c with the current card you have would also be limited. Yes, No ?
70 Celsius is 158 Fahrenheit is that your room temp ?
 

Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
1,576
1
0
In my whole room no, my room gets to around 80F if I don't open the Windows or turn on AC.

Inside my computer case is another story, sometimes my current card gets up to around 90C under a full load. So no I no longer have the card OC'd. HD 6970s were not very good at over clocking anyway. And mine is a reference model on top of that.
 

sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
149
106
The voltage/multiplier is the same card to card as thats part of the firmware. However every card is unique when it comes to power consumption. Not all cards will be able to go up to the same frequency. So saying they are all the same is wrong.

Power consumption depends on clock and voltage. The highest Boost step is 1124MHz with 1,175V. Nearly all cards will have the same power consumption because they are using the same clock/voltage table.

You will see the only difference with the offset-clock. Some will get up to 150MHz others only to 130MHz.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,126
738
126
Power consumption depends on clock and voltage. The highest Boost step is 1124MHz with 1,175V. Nearly all cards will have the same power consumption because they are using the same clock/voltage table.

You will see the only difference with the offset-clock. Some will get up to 150MHz others only to 130MHz.

You sure about that?

[H] "Since the TDP of this video card is 195W, there might be some games that don't come close to tapping the full power of this video card. In these lower powered games, the GeForce GTX 680 is able to raise the GPU frequency to give you better performance until it reaches TDP. This means the GPU clock speed could increase from 1006MHz to 1.1GHz or 1.2GHz or potentially even higher. (Kyle saw a GTX 680 sample card reach over 1300MHz running live demos but it could not sustain this clock.)"

"GPU Boost is guaranteed to hit 1058MHz in most games. Typically, the GPU will be going much higher. We experienced clock speeds in demo sessions that would raise to 1.150GHz and even 1.2GHz in such games as Battlefield 3. With a GPU frequency increase of that much over base clock you can rest assured it will be a noticeable performance difference."
 

sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
149
106
I am. He is the only person who said that the boost would be higher than 1124MHz.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
Yeah, they really need to go back and validate their claims because review after review, they are the only one who has ever said anything of the like.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
Power consumption depends on clock and voltage. The highest Boost step is 1124MHz with 1,175V. Nearly all cards will have the same power consumption because they are using the same clock/voltage table.

You will see the only difference with the offset-clock. Some will get up to 150MHz others only to 130MHz.

Sorry dude, doesn't work that way. Each piece of silicon is unique. This includes leakage as well as other traits. Leakages can change the power consumption of each card by quite a bit. To say every single card is going to be identical is ignorant as it would infer that every single piece of silicon is exactly the same.

And of course this doesn't even touch on the fact that there are many other components on the board that handle power. And each of them is unique as well. Typically they are all +/- 5% from their specified values (1% parts are available but their cost is significantly higher). This can lead to fairly large changes in power consumption, especially if several components are all 5% off in the same direction. Its called a build up of tolerances and is not uncommon.

The way nVidia measures their TDP takes all this into account, as they are measuring power going into the board as a whole, not into just the GPU.
 

KingFatty

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2010
3,034
1
81
Does the card take into account power consumption when adjusting its speed?

From the techpowerup excerpt re-posted above, it suggests the card only looks at temperature, but I can't assume that is all there is to it?
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
107
106
There is a power consumption cap that cannot be passed. It will not clock higher than that cap will allow.

That cap can be adjusted to 132% of the default value on all the cards that are currently out.
 
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