Teacher says she was fired for giving zeroes to students who didn't turn in their work

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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,522
759
146
Teachers are forced to drill meaningless bullshit about sentence construction when they could actually be teaching their kids how to read and think. I don't know if you know anyone who works in urban education but I would be amazed if you could find one who thinks that standardized tests are improving the quality of education.

I think a lot of students could potentially benefit if English classes in high school resembled foreign language classes, considering how poorly developed students' writing skills are coming into high school. Starting in 9th grade, all that basic stuff is dropped for teachers to devote an inordinate amount of time on reading a few books and having students sporadically do ~3-page essays. Because of their limited knowledge on grammar, vocab, etc., those essays remain garbage from 9th-12th grade. I've noticed a lot of people just plateau around 9th grade.

In NYS, schools that are considered low performing can be taken over by the state, putting their entire staff at risk to be fired and this designation is largely related to state math and ELA proficiency scores. Needless to say people don't want to get fired so what do they do? Jack up the test scores by any means possible. They know this is bad teaching but they feel they have no choice and in these schools you'll see a tremendous amount of time devoted to teaching the test as opposed to teaching what they think best represents the material that applies best to the course and their students.

If students can't pass that pathetic shit, then i don't know what to tell you. The material would essentially be the same elementary shit. You get tested on very basic elements of the given test subject.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,803
581
126
What a lot of you here aren't realizing is how much funding is tied to performance. When the schools under-perform they're often at risk of losing funding. This applies significant pressure on manipulating results to be a diploma factory over teaching. You could fill a library with all the valid criticisms against administrators, teachers, unions, BOEs, legislators, etc., but no matter what approach you take cutting funding is not going to right the ship of a failing school.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,522
759
146
What a lot of you here aren't realizing is how much funding is tied to performance. When the schools under-perform they're often at risk of losing funding. This applies significant pressure on manipulating results to be a diploma factory over teaching. You could fill a library with all the valid criticisms against administrators, teachers, unions, BOEs, legislators, etc., but no matter what approach you take cutting funding is not going to right the ship of a failing school.

And the reality is that it's not the teacher's fault or the lame "teaching to the test" issue, but no one wants to pin the blame on something else. Teachers/schools account for a small percentage of the performance. Not surprisingly, the students matter the most. That's the reality. In fact, a lot of people talk shit about US system, but the US scores in the top range if you separate the total average of international scores into averages of racial groups.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
Yup, in my personal XP, it's the administrators that drive these things. I've seen teachers at odds with administrations more than I care to. Teachers, for the most part, want to teach the children effectively.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
What a lot of you here aren't realizing is how much funding is tied to performance. When the schools under-perform they're often at risk of losing funding. This applies significant pressure on manipulating results to be a diploma factory over teaching. You could fill a library with all the valid criticisms against administrators, teachers, unions, BOEs, legislators, etc., but no matter what approach you take cutting funding is not going to right the ship of a failing school.

It's shortsighted thinking though. It might work for a few years but when it comes to curriculum that builds on itself it falls apart quickly and tends towards students doing progressively worse in the follow up subjects. So your scores might get a nice bump at first but then will deteriorate again. Maybe if they are in immediate risk of losing funding or a few people just want to eek out a couple more years till retirement but the school will likely end up in worse shape in the near future
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
It's shortsighted thinking though. It might work for a few years but when it comes to curriculum that builds on itself it falls apart quickly and tends towards students doing progressively worse in the follow up subjects. So your scores might get a nice bump at first but then will deteriorate again. Maybe if they are in immediate risk of losing funding or a few people just want to eek out a couple more years till retirement but the school will likely end up in worse shape in the near future

It's true. So also in my XP, the student hits the middle school, very unprepared, and the middle school is then left to clean up the mess
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,653
136
I don't think anyone is too cofnused about the firing itself. People are confused/angry/dismayed about the policy itself.

50% as a baseline... it affects the weights and scaling of grades, but how many taking a test would actually get under 50%?
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
Public schools are, for the most part, place holders. You learn to read, do basic mathematics, get a little history and, civics. Even the best merely train you to be accepted to college. Not that the basics are trivial but, 12 freaking years? The holes in the system are monumental. Trades are all but totally ignored, how to work isn't even talked about, problem solving isn't taught and, going to college is the ONLY plan presented by teachers, parents and, peers for after hs. It's total bs promoted by government, educators and, corporations.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,522
759
146
You might want to go read my post again.

You've said they've gotten out of hand when they've been watered down into pathetic and very elementary examinations. This is all considering that high school spans 4 yrs, while not even requiring calculus material. You then say local communities should be given more flexibility, which will undoubtedly lead to a fall in standards or inane methods for teaching. Many of the top performing nations rely on more centralized education systems, so did you really identify a problem?

What's "teaching to the test" in your opinion? It's about aligning classroom instruction and curriculum to standards. That's a good thing! I'm baffled when people suggest that it means that teachers narrow down subject matter to a few problems/concepts or whatever nonsense, since standardized testing is broad and has more than just a few distinct problem types encountered on the test.

It's true. So also in my XP, the student hits the middle school, very unprepared, and the middle school is then left to clean up the mess

The majority of that can't be cleaned up, and is not the fault of the school/teachers. Have you ever wondered why a 6th grader can run circles around someone in 12th grade or university in writing/reading ability? Or how someone can get a perfect score on a difficult final & cumulative Calculus I/II/III test? Shit like that is not from the teacher/school.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180905-how-genes-influence-achievement-and-success-in-school

We found that about 70% of the stability in achievement is explained by genetic factors, while 25% is accounted for by the twins’ shared environment, such as growing up in the same family and attending the same school. The remaining 5% was explained by their non-shared environment, such as different friends or different teachers.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
You've said they've gotten out of hand when they've been watered down into pathetic and very elementary examinations. This is all considering that high school spans 4 yrs, while not even requiring calculus material. You then say local communities should be given more flexibility, which will undoubtedly lead to a fall in standards or inane methods for teaching. Many of the top performing nations rely on more centralized education systems, so did you really identify a problem?

What's "teaching to the test" in your opinion? It's about aligning classroom instruction and curriculum to standards. That's a good thing! I'm baffled when people suggest that it means that teachers narrow down subject matter to a few problems/concepts or whatever nonsense, since standardized testing is broad and has more than just a few distinct problem types encountered on the test.



The majority of that can't be cleaned up, and is not the fault of the school/teachers. Have you ever wondered why a 6th grader can run circles around someone in 12th grade or university in writing/reading ability? Or how someone can get a perfect score on a difficult final & cumulative Calculus I/II/III test? Shit like that is not from the teacher/school.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180905-how-genes-influence-achievement-and-success-in-school

We found that about 70% of the stability in achievement is explained by genetic factors, while 25% is accounted for by the twins’ shared environment, such as growing up in the same family and attending the same school. The remaining 5% was explained by their non-shared environment, such as different friends or different teachers.

I'm not saying that's not the case. Genetics plays a huge role in learning aptitude. I have real world experience with a son who has ADHD, dyslexia, and another language disorder. Schools don't want to address the dyslexia since is costly, not treated with medication, and overall a thorn in their side. These are all genetic traits that can be handled, but it takes time and money that not all districts have to spare.

Again, in my XP, this is not a teacher issue, its a admin issue.

But we we're discussing short term gains(pushing them along in elementary) for long term losses (screwed when they get to a place that won't push them along line the previous school). And indeed, a snowball effect, especially for kids with learning disabilities, starts to happen.

As a parent of a kid in this situation, I can only be diligent in ensuring the schools follow his IEP, and bring an educational advocate to all his meetings
 
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GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Public schools are, for the most part, place holders. You learn to read, do basic mathematics, get a little history and, civics. Even the best merely train you to be accepted to college.

The problem is that public schools are not even that anymore. You used to spend 12 years learning what could be taught in 6, but at least you did in fact learn. That was mandatory, kids were failed, they were held back, they were sent to summer school and they were held accountable for participating in the process. They had to work at it. Those days are long gone and we're not even close to being able to clear a bar set embarrassingly low. Now kids can get through high school without knowing how to read, without being able to do basic mathematics, getting no useful history, no science, no ability to communicate in the English language, nothing. The entire system is devoted to getting kids through school, not in teaching them while they're there. As long as school funding is tied to graduation rates the goal of schools will be to protect themselves and that means passing kids no matter what. Nobody gives a shit if they learn anything, just get them through each year and out the door.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
What a lot of you here aren't realizing is how much funding is tied to performance. When the schools under-perform they're often at risk of losing funding. This applies significant pressure on manipulating results to be a diploma factory over teaching. You could fill a library with all the valid criticisms against administrators, teachers, unions, BOEs, legislators, etc., but no matter what approach you take cutting funding is not going to right the ship of a failing school.

Bingo!
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
First, like I said I don't think there should be no standards for education. Some degree of standardized tests are fine to maintain minimum standards but that's not what's being done in low performing districts. Second, I suspect you are in a school district that is considered high performing or at least decently performing and in those standardized tests don't do much damage at all because student aptitude is high enough that for the most part the district doesn't give a shit about the tests as they will be in no danger of 'failing'.

In NYS, schools that are considered low performing can be taken over by the state, putting their entire staff at risk to be fired and this designation is largely related to state math and ELA proficiency scores. Needless to say people don't want to get fired so what do they do? Jack up the test scores by any means possible. They know this is bad teaching but they feel they have no choice and in these schools you'll see a tremendous amount of time devoted to teaching the test as opposed to teaching what they think best represents the material that applies best to the course and their students.

I am fortunate to live in an area with great school districts and lots of quality educators.
That and my kids are doing great in school and surround themselves with other kids that are top of the class.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
No child left behind, etc... even if it means cutting corners.

Sorry, some kids are retarded. They deserve a retarded stamp - not a "special needs stamp". They don't deserve "special treatment" unless by "special treatment" you mean a few hard smackings with a ruler.

And when the parents come by on the one occasion of the year and want to blame the teacher - they are also worthy of a few hard smackings with a ruler.

But retards gonna retard. Keep on with the PC culture. I'm sure it will succeed one of these days with kids and their gender studies degrees. But tell me more while you pour my latte Mr/Ms. Barista.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,717
25,053
136
No child left behind, etc... even if it means cutting corners.

Sorry, some kids are retarded. They deserve a retarded stamp - not a "special needs stamp". They don't deserve "special treatment" unless by "special treatment" you mean a few hard smackings with a ruler.

And when the parents come by on the one occasion of the year and want to blame the teacher - they are also worthy of a few hard smackings with a ruler.

But retards gonna retard. Keep on with the PC culture. I'm sure it will succeed one of these days with kids and their gender studies degrees. But tell me more while you pour my latte Mr/Ms. Barista.

Quoted for the irony.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,182
5,646
146
Quoted for no real argument. Must mean you agree.

Either that or you have deemed th aw t you have special needs kids that always deserve a trophy.

Or because as is constantly the case with you, you're a fucking moron that doesn't know what you're talking about. Who was it that pushed "No Child Left Behind"? The same group now constantly crying about things being too PC. Hence the irony in your statement, dumbass.

Well that and the fact that you routinely show that you're massively stupid. So go slap yourself with your ruler.

At least you know you'll be safe in a zombie apocalypse. You'd be completely invisible to anyone seeking brains.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
You stated there should be no system of standardized test yet state there should be a minimum.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension skills.

He used a double negative as in he "doesn't want it not to happen" means he wants it to happen.

Just read his post slowly.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
Quoted for no real argument. Must mean you agree.

Either that or you have deemed th aw t you have special needs kids that always deserve a trophy.

Oh, I certainly disagree with beating retarded kids. I'm not sure how you think that's acceptable. Fucking disgusting, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
 
Reactions: mikeymikec

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
Or because as is constantly the case with you, you're a fucking moron that doesn't know what you're talking about. Who was it that pushed "No Child Left Behind"? The same group now constantly crying about things being too PC. Hence the irony in your statement, dumbass.

Well that and the fact that you routinely show that you're massively stupid. So go slap yourself with your ruler.

At least you know you'll be safe in a zombie apocalypse. You'd be completely invisible to anyone seeking brains.

Dead on.

People who lean right will blame this on PC culture while sticking their fingers in their ears screaming lalalalala can't hear you! Then start complaining about snowflakes who call them idiots....complete lack of self awareness.

I've posted it earlier in the thread, the situation in the OP has less to do with the kids, and almost everything to do with admins fudging numbers to look good on apaper and keep funding.

In my area, a public school was failing it's students so miserably that the state actually took over the district based on how poorly the students were doing on tests.

So while Im not a huge fan of standardized testing in general due to the corporate interests involved and how corporate leadership's style the admins have become. I also think that something to measure a baseline of knowledge should be in place.

I also attended a small christian school for 8-12 grade. They certainly passed people who should've failed. They would be required to administer the standardized test now. It wouldn't have gone well. I doubt christian teachings are on the exam. Also noting that IMXP, it was the religious that we're the most up in arms about standardized testing, they knew what it meant for their schools.
 
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