Teachers pay is a disgrace.

tec699

Banned
Dec 19, 2002
6,440
0
0
I?ve brought this issue up from time to time and I feel it needs revisiting. Teachers are inadequately paid. Plain and simple. Take a look at the starting salary from state to state and you?ll find that in most states teachers are starting off at a measley $27,000 a year. They max out in the mid $40,000 and the starting teacher?s salary that I just mentioned is for the mid-west and south. On the east and west coast teachers start off between $36,000-$42,000 We max out in the mid $60,000 Some of the wealthier districts even go as high as $80,000 Now you might think that this is great but you have to realize that NJ is an expensive state to live in. I?m talking $400,000 houses, $8,000 a year property taxes, $2,000 car insurance, etc? That $40,000 starting salary isn?t so hot after all. Also, to get up to the mid $60,000 range your talking 15+ years of teaching. I have buddies that have business degrees. Their starting salary was comparable to a teachers starting salary but they quickly shot up to the mid $60?s in a few years while a public school teacher's salary increases so much slower. I?m talking a few thousand every 3-5 years. Teachers do have a great benefits package though.

So what am I trying to say? It amazes me that I have to go to a 4 year college like everyone else and I?ll have to endure the low teachers pay while my peers will be making double my salary. The people that would make great teachers are driven out of the education field due to the low pay. For instance, my dads buddy was telling me that he has a cousin that graduated with her masters degree in education. She is a single mother with 2 children. She got a job last year as a 1st grade teacher at a public school in South Carolina. Her starting salary was $24,000 How the hell can you survive on this paltry salary in today?s society and especially when children are involved? It?s a damn shame because she left at the Christmas break and immediately got a job working with computers starting at $60,000 a year. The public schools in South Carolina lost another good teacher.

Now I know what most are thinking to themselves? Teachers get the summers off and leave at 3pm everyday. That?s not fully correct. For example, I had to teach a lesson on primary and secondary colors to kindergarteners. I spent $20 of my own money and 3+ hours working on this project. I made an interactive learning center, poems, worksheets and handouts, and the actual lesson plan. These activities take time to prepare. I loved setting up and constructing the activities. It was a lot of fun but imagine doing this 3-4 times a week? I only did one lesson and it took some time to complete. Of course, as time progresses and I get the experience I?ll spend less time on my lessons. Plus, I?ll be able to save my activities for future use so the time shaping my lesson will decrease. Summers also aren?t just a relaxing time for most teachers. There are some teachers that go back to college in the Summer and they take the recommended courses that their district say that they need to take. Some take on Summer jobs to supplement their incomes but why should they have to do this? Why should individuals with bachelor and master degrees have to take on a second job? Shouldn?t their main job be enough to support their lifestyle? Usually though this isn?t the case. Hell my father who has an 8th grade education makes more then most public school teachers. My father makes $100,000 plus a year.

You go into teaching to make a difference and you don?t go into it for the money. I know this and luckily I?ll have my parents business to run in the summer. I?ll have two incomes coming in but not everyone is as fortunate.
 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
Originally posted by: tec699


You go into teaching to make a difference and you don?t go into it for the money. I know this and luckily

Hence why they are paid low

 

ucdbiendog

Platinum Member
Sep 22, 2001
2,468
0
0
im not even reading your post and i agree with you. how bout some cliff notes?

EDIT: although i disagree with one thing. i think the great teachers do not do it for the money. the great teachers do it because they love it, so i dont htink they get driven out by the low pay
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81
I agree 100%, however, don't compare teachers to others, like your father for example. I'm sure he had some lucky breaks along the way, and he's not making 100k because of his 8th grade education, but in spite of it.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
but just about everybody that goes into teaching knows this, so it's their choice
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0
Most of the teachers I had in California weren't even earning thier crappy pay. If they suck that bad at teaching, they don't deserve any more money.
 

Isshinryu

Senior member
May 28, 2004
922
0
0
And doctors go to school for 8 years, start off making an avg. of 30K for 3 years, end up making the same, if not less than, alot of people who have a four year business degree, while working 80+ hours a week. Life's not fair. If the money is such a deterent, don't do it.
 

tec699

Banned
Dec 19, 2002
6,440
0
0
Originally posted by: ThePresence
I agree 100%, however, don't compare teachers to others, like your father for example. I'm sure he had some lucky breaks along the way, and he's not making 100k because of his 8th grade education, but in spite of it.

My father is a hard worker and a good business man that took some chances in life. He does very well for himself and I look up to the guy. In my eyes he's a success.


 

tkdkid

Senior member
Oct 13, 2000
956
0
0
Teachers don't produce any income for their business. Where are they supposed to get extra money to pay teachers with?
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81
Originally posted by: tec699
Originally posted by: ThePresence
I agree 100%, however, don't compare teachers to others, like your father for example. I'm sure he had some lucky breaks along the way, and he's not making 100k because of his 8th grade education, but in spite of it.

My father is a hard worker and a good business man that took some chances in life. He does very well for himself and I look up to the guy. In my eyes he's a success.



I don't doubt, I wasn't saying otherwise. I'm just saying that he's making that money IN SPITE of his education. He's not typical, he's against the odds. So don't compare the norm of a teacher's pay to that.
 

Crucial

Diamond Member
Dec 21, 2000
5,026
0
71
Why should individuals with bachelor and master degrees have to take on a second job?

Why do individuals with degrees expect to be paid tons and tons of money? You are not entitled to anything because of that piece of paper.
 

Ranger X

Lifer
Mar 18, 2000
11,218
1
0
What are you talking about? My friend is a teacher and she went into teaching, starting at like 40k. She only works 9 months out of the year and her work hours are 7am-3pm. She gets all the gov't holidays and gets great benefits. The rest of us work 8am-5pm and work year round -- minus vacation.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
My university was a big engineering and elementary education school in my state, I remember the elem ed majors talking about having a class devoted entirely to making bullitin boards. Talk about a bloody waste of time. Frankly there is generally an oversupply of those that want to teach and hence wages are what the profession will demand with the excess supply. In addition that 27,000 includes their 3 months off in the summer.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Supply and demand. If teachers werent' willing to work for peanuts, they'd stop going into the profession.
 

dolph

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
3,981
0
0
and how many great potential teachers have been deterred from teaching because they'd know that it'd be impossible to also raise a family and not live in a slum or out in the boonies? DOUBLE teachers' salaries, eliminate tenure (wtf is that? just 'cause you're in a business for 15 years means you're entitled to your job, no matter what? ha!), and watch the next generation of geniuses cure cancer and world hunger.

or, turn everything over to the private sector (that one's for you, amused )
 

tec699

Banned
Dec 19, 2002
6,440
0
0
Originally posted by: notfred
Most of the teachers I had in California weren't even earning thier crappy pay. If they suck that bad at teaching, they don't deserve any more money.

Was it the teacher or the pupil? I can work with a pupil until I'm blue in the face but if he is unresponsive then how is that my fault? I can only do so much. I can't make a student pass a test. Teachers and students have to meet halfway in regard to academics and parent support is vital for student success. How many parents are involved in their children?s education? From what I've seen it's not many. It's a disgrace.

You can't continue to blame teachers for everything. Some issues are just out of their hands.
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
1
0
Oh, let me see.
Especially in NJ, I know the NJ teaching racket pretty well:
$35k+ to start. Close to $100k (probably more in some districts) for an Ed.D. in the highest bracket.
Virtually guaranteed job security once you get tenured, no matter how awful and incompetent you are.
10 month work year, including a week off at Christmas, a week off at Easter, major Jewish holidays, and Federal holidays.
After the first couple years of teaching, reuse the same lesson plans - less time spent outside of work.
Benefits package that you can't shake a stick at.
Extra money for coaching or doing extra curriculars.
Membership in one of the most powerful labor unions in America.
Work for 25 years and you can retire at 55 or older with a pension and full benefits for life.

Sure, it's an important job, but if you're teaching in the state of NJ, I don't feel sorry you, you've got one of the best rackets around. NJ is a small state and you don't have to live in the town where you teach. Housing costs are not universally $400k+, so that's no excuse.

Honestly, I've been searching for jobs in the NJ public school system because it's such a damn good racket.

Oh, I forgot all of the personal days and the bankable sick days that you get to trade in for cash when you retire at 55.

Edit: You won't get rich, but you will live comfortably, especially dual-income families.
 

wyvrn

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
10,074
0
0
In my hometown, teachers start at 36k (39k in Dallas) and go from there. Seeing as they only work 185 days of the year, this isn't bad compensation. The advantage to them is that they can either take a 3 month vacation in the summer, or do other work to supplement their income. How many jobs have this flexibility?

I know several teachers that spend extra time grading papers and working on lesson plans and assignments. They have learned to budget their time so that they are not working 60 hours a week, yet still have a good education for their students. A lot of it is networking, using other people's effective low-cost ideas, etc. It really isn't that hard of a job. I think the worst part is dealing with parents. But then again I considered my time on the help desk as more stressful than that, and the MOST I ever made was 35k doing that (started at 26k mind you).

Sorry, but I don't have a lot of sympathy.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
No. They are paid adequately.

First, there is no shortage of teachers. That should be your first sign that their pay is sufficient.

Second, their benefits are top-notch. Paid retirement benefit plans, paid health care even for spouses and children, all worth tens of thousands per year on top of their base salary.

Third, public school teachers make more in salary and benefits (on average) than private school teachers, and yet children can get a better education at a private school.

That is all.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Supply and demand. If teachers werent' willing to work for peanuts, they'd stop going into the profession.

It's a hard concept but I understand and agree.
 

wyvrn

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
10,074
0
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Supply and demand. If teachers werent' willing to work for peanuts, they'd stop going into the profession.

Not really Skoorb. Most teachers are paid from governments, who have limited funding capabilities tied to tax rates. This isn't an open market, and there are definate caps on what localities have to spend on education. Texas is having a huge issue right now with having to cut education expenses because of tax problems.
 
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