Teachers pay is a disgrace.

[tec699]

Frankly there is generally an oversupply of those that want to teach

In some areas yes and in others no.

Special ed, Mathematics and Sciene teachers are in great demand while History, Literature and Gym teachers are in lesser demand.

 

[Drakkon]

teachers are doing nothing more than what the parents should be doing teaching their kids. In most states/schools they are a glorified babysitters these days and thus I have no qualms about what they get paid. Only at private schools do teachers actually TEACH kids and so they get paid more. How many of you that went through public school actually can say every teacher taught you something new that your parents didn't already mention? Or they just did enough to keep the kids entertained for a good portion of the day? That is why teachers don't get paid more...there are too many of them that just dont care anymore...

 

[tec699]

Third, public school teachers make more in salary and benefits (on average) than private school teachers, and yet children can get a better education at a private school.

Again put the full balme on the public schools and don't even mention the rotten parents that don't give a rats ass. I've been to and observed parent/teacher nights at a few schools and guess what? The parents don't show up! If a parent can't take 30 minutes to go to a parent/teacher conference what does that say about the parent? It says education is not important!

So don't put the full blame on the public schools and the public school teachers. Bad parenting is also the culprit behind the low test scores, but I guess you would like to ignore this issue.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: wyvrn

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Supply and demand. If teachers werent' willing to work for peanuts, they'd stop going into the profession.

Not really Skoorb. Most teachers are paid from governments, who have limited funding capabilities tied to tax rates. This isn't an open market, and there are definate caps on what localities have to spend on education. Texas is having a huge issue right now with having to cut education expenses because of tax problems.

But, nonetheless, school boards are able to hire the teachers that they need in most cases, even with paying them crap.

Of course look at jzero's numbers. There are major perks like pensions. I'll never receive a pension in my life. I have to save for retirement aggressively, which right there cuts a big chunk out of my income. Teachers don't really need to bother much with that. Their job security is generally exceptional as well.

So don't put the full blame on the public schools and the public school teachers. Bad parenting is also the culprit behind low test scores, but I guess you would like to ignore this issue.

True. If more parents cared about their kids' education they's skimp on that nice new SUV and drop the kid into a private school

 

[KhoiFather]

The teachers in my high school that I use to go to made around 70-90K a year, and that was because of their degrees and certifications and what not but it does take a acouple years to get up there. I guess it depends on the school, I know my school if you have a doctorine degree or something, they'll pay you pretty good.

 

[Ender]

If the parents of children want a higher level of education for their children, private school is another option. Or those Sylvan Learning centers. This allows for people who have money to afford a stronger education for their children. Some parents dont have the money, but tough luck.

 

[LordMorpheus]

They are underpaid.

This has several maor downsides, one being that the smartest teachers go get better jobs.

I'll propose a solution: cut the bloat out of government and give the extra to teachers. It would be fun to see teaching positions as competitive jobs (all the bad ones wash out) that pay 100k. education would definatly be better.

 

[Ender]

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
They are underpaid.

This has several maor downsides, one being that the smartest teachers go get better jobs.

I'll propose a solution: cut the bloat out of government and give the extra to teachers. It would be fun to see teaching positions as competitive jobs (all the bad ones wash out) that pay 100k. education would definatly be better.

What is the 'bloat' you are describing?

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: notfred
Most of the teachers I had in California weren't even earning thier crappy pay. If they suck that bad at teaching, they don't deserve any more money.

Was it the teacher or the pupil? I can work with a pupil until I'm blue in the face but if he is unresponsive then how is that my fault? I can only do so much. I can't make a student pass a test. Teachers and students have to meet halfway in regard to academics and parent support is vital for student success. How many parents are involved in their children?s education? From what I've seen it's not many. It's a disgrace.

You can't continue to blame teachers for everything. Some issues are just out of their hands.

I'm not blaming teachers for everything, I'm jsut saying that there are a lot of bad teachers out there, IMO.

I had a second grade teacher who threw things at kids, and was such a bitch that she sent little kids home crying. She yelled at me ( a 7 year old ) because my pencil broke. I had an AP Statistics teacher in high school who had to look up fourmuals for simple things like standard deviation because she didn't know them. I had a physics teacher who would only ask people questions who he KNEW didn't know the answer, because he didn't get a boost to his ego unless he got to correct somebody. These people should be fired, not paid more.

Now, I'm not saying that all teachers are bad, but I've had as many if not more horrible teachers than great ones. And the rest are all, well, average. They convey the material to you, but they don't make it interesting. They don't make you want to study it, they pretty much just don't piss you off enough that you wish they were fired. But still, the only reason you do the work or study the material is for the grade, not because you actually care about it.

 

Originally posted by: tec699

Third, public school teachers make more in salary and benefits (on average) than private school teachers, and yet children can get a better education at a private school.

Again put the full balme on the public schools and don't even mention the rotten parents that don't give a rats ass. I've been to and observed parent/teacher nights at a few schools and guess what? The parents don't show up! If a parent can't take 30 minutes to go to a parent/teacher conference what does that say about the parent? It says education is not important!

So don't put the full blame on the public schools and the public school teachers. Bad parenting is also the culprit behind the low test scores, but I guess you would like to ignore this issue.

Hrmmm. My parents never went to parent/teacher night after the first couple times because it was a waste of time.

However, I do agree that many parents need to start taking an active role in the childs learning. My parents read to me and helped me with homework when I was younger. It really doesn't take a whole lot.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
They are underpaid.

This has several maor downsides, one being that the smartest teachers go get better jobs.

I'll propose a solution: cut the bloat out of government and give the extra to teachers. It would be fun to see teaching positions as competitive jobs (all the bad ones wash out) that pay 100k. education would definatly be better.

I agree. We have administrators that make $100,000 a year. I hate to say it but the teachers union are f*ckin crooks! The top tier union head makes over $400,000 a year. That's complete and utter bullsh*t!

 

[sillymofo]

But, but.... dont you get a 3 months break?

 

[StageLeft]

I should add that one of the teachers we know is doing private tutorial work this summer to supplement her income, since she has 2-3 months off.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
They are underpaid.

This has several maor downsides, one being that the smartest teachers go get better jobs.

I'll propose a solution: cut the bloat out of government and give the extra to teachers. It would be fun to see teaching positions as competitive jobs (all the bad ones wash out) that pay 100k. education would definatly be better.

I agree. We have administrators that make $100,000 a year. I hate to say it but the teachers union are f*ckin crooks! The top tier union head makes over $400,000 a year. That's complete bullsh*t!

Well, if it's a union then can't you do something about that? You know, as a union...

 

[Ausm]

I think the teachers in my School district are OVERPAID...They get unbelievable benefits and still bitch that they don't make enough money? I would be more willing to support my local teachers if the teaching in my district was not so substandard.

Sysadmin

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: notfred
Most of the teachers I had in California weren't even earning thier crappy pay. If they suck that bad at teaching, they don't deserve any more money.

Was it the teacher or the pupil? I can work with a pupil until I'm blue in the face but if he is unresponsive then how is that my fault? I can only do so much. I can't make a student pass a test. Teachers and students have to meet halfway in regard to academics and parent support is vital for student success. How many parents are involved in their children?s education? From what I've seen it's not many. It's a disgrace.

You can't continue to blame teachers for everything. Some issues are just out of their hands.

I'm not blaming teachers for everything, I'm jsut saying that there are a lot of bad teachers out there, IMO.

I had a second grade teacher who threw things at kids, and was such a bitch that she sent little kids home crying. She yelled at me ( a 7 year old ) because my pencil broke. I had an AP Statistics teacher in high school who had to look up fourmuals for simple things like standard deviation because she didn't know them. I had a physics teacher who would only ask people questions who he KNEW didn't know the answer, because he didn't get a boost to his ego unless he got to correct somebody. These people should be fired, not paid more.

Now, I'm not saying that all teachers are bad, but I've had as many if not more horrible teachers than great ones. And the rest are all, well, average. They convey the material to you, but they don't make it interesting. They don't make you want to study it, they pretty much just don't piss you off enough that you wish they were fired. But still, the only reason you do the work or study the material is for the grade, not because you actually care about it.

Notfred...

That's so true and I share your frustration. I've also had some god awful teachers. The public school system has not been kind to me and I have nothing but bad feelings towards my old high school.

In my opinion, if we raised the teachers salary then we could get rid of those bad teachers because now we would have competition from people that want to actually teach! Competition is a good thing, and we would be able to weed out the people that don't want to be there and can't adequately perform when they are in the classroom.

 

[HokieESM]

Just an FYI (that's somewhat on topic): the average engineering professor makes less than $80K/year (for 12 months of work... its 3/4 of that if they don't work summers)... and at most institutions, they are expected to front 10~20% of their salary in research dollars (or they aren't paid that percentage). Its even worse for people in liberal arts fields--I have a friend who makes less at a professorship at a decent state university than she did at Barnes and Noble. And that's for someone who went to school for 4+2+4= 10 years.

(and yes, I do know that some professors are paid well. my advisor is one. I happen to just be interested in higher ed because, well, i'm defending my dissertation in a month).

 

[Pacfanweb]

A teaching degree is one of the easiest to obtain. This is a well-known fact.
Therefore, it is typically not a high-paying job.
That is a main reason that we don't have the "best of the best" going into teaching.
People already know that teaching doesn't pay that well, so I am puzzled at why they continually bitch about it.

The solution to our education problems is this: Pick a date a couple years away, and say that teachers are going to start out at, say, 65-70k.
Then say that the catch is, the standards are going to be much higher, so we don't have the substandard idiots that we have teaching now.
Specify that schools offering teaching degrees must produce grads that meet these standards, or they won't be hired.

What will happen is this: the current teachers will be tested and the ones who are not up to par will be weeded out.
Then, better, smarter students will start studying for teaching degrees since you can actually make a good salary now.
Better-educated students and happier teachers will be the result.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: tec699
In my opinion, if we raised the teachers salary then we could get rid of those bad teachers because now we would have competition from people that want to actually teach! Competition is a good thing, and we would be able to weed out the people that don't want to be there and can't adequately perform when they are in the classroom.

Higher pay won't necessarily increase competition, it will just increase the number of people completely disinterested in being good teachers, but who want to do it because now on top of all the other benefits I listed, the pay is even higher.

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
They are underpaid.

This has several maor downsides, one being that the smartest teachers go get better jobs.

I'll propose a solution: cut the bloat out of government and give the extra to teachers. It would be fun to see teaching positions as competitive jobs (all the bad ones wash out) that pay 100k. education would definatly be better.

I agree. We have administrators that make $100,000 a year. I hate to say it but the teachers union are f*ckin crooks! The top tier union head makes over $400,000 a year. That's complete bullsh*t!

Well, if it's a union then can't you do something about that? You know, as a union...

Like what? Go against the teachers union? Yea right. They will come after you so quickly and they will make your life a living hell. They have a ton of clout in Washington and in NJ. Also, politics and corruption go hand in hand in NJ. The losing parties are of course the children and the teachers.

 

[DougK62]

Touchy subject. Good arguments on both sides.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
They are underpaid.

This has several maor downsides, one being that the smartest teachers go get better jobs.

I'll propose a solution: cut the bloat out of government and give the extra to teachers. It would be fun to see teaching positions as competitive jobs (all the bad ones wash out) that pay 100k. education would definatly be better.

I agree. We have administrators that make $100,000 a year. I hate to say it but the teachers union are f*ckin crooks! The top tier union head makes over $400,000 a year. That's complete bullsh*t!

Well, if it's a union then can't you do something about that? You know, as a union...

Like what? Go against the teachers union? Yea right. They will come after you so quickly and they will make your life a living hell. They have a ton of clout in Washington and in NJ. Also, politics and corruption go hand in hand in NJ. The losing parties are of course the children and the teachers.

Uhh no, if it's such a big deal that the top union head is making that much then I'm sure a nice majority of the membership feels the same as you. That means you aren't 'going against the union'.

 

[DeeTees]

If you want truly bad pay for a hard job try adjunct faculty at state colleges. You teach half load, have office hours, prepare lessons, forms grading and after all that you are lucky to make $16,000.00 a year. Oh by the way no benefits and if you want retirement you can contribute as much of your after tax salery as you wish to a pension plan. The full time faculty teaching the same courses (full load) make 65-75K have full benefits, tenure and have 10% of their salary contributed to their pension fund.

JUst a note - the percentage of full time faculty at state colleges is declining while the adjunct staff is increasing. I still think that it is a bad idea to work at screwing the teaching profession at any level. If you pay sh*t wages you get poor teachers. If you pay sh*t wages and overload the poor teachers you get no trachers or teachers that need school themselves. Oops, I guess that is exactly what we have been doing.

(former adjunct professor in state community college who thought he owed something to the system, so took the job as a favor to a full time faculty member friend)

 

[StageLeft]

In my opinion, if we raised the teachers salary then we could get rid of those bad teachers because now we would have competition from people that want to actually teach! Competition is a good thing, and we would be able to weed out the people that don't want to be there and can't adequately perform when they are in the classroom.

I think that most people would just, instead of doing that and keeping teach levels constant, press for a greater proportion of teachers to students.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
They are underpaid.

This has several maor downsides, one being that the smartest teachers go get better jobs.

I'll propose a solution: cut the bloat out of government and give the extra to teachers. It would be fun to see teaching positions as competitive jobs (all the bad ones wash out) that pay 100k. education would definatly be better.

I agree. We have administrators that make $100,000 a year. I hate to say it but the teachers union are f*ckin crooks! The top tier union head makes over $400,000 a year. That's complete bullsh*t!

Well, if it's a union then can't you do something about that? You know, as a union...

Like what? Go against the teachers union? Yea right. They will come after you so quickly and they will make your life a living hell. They have a ton of clout in Washington and in NJ. Also, politics and corruption go hand in hand in NJ. The losing parties are of course the children and the teachers.

The NJEA is keeping the salaries up...if it wasn't for them, NJ would probably bottom out at $20k like other states. How is the teachers' union screwing its own teachers?