Teachers pay is a disgrace.

[jyates]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: jyates

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I'll chime in with my opinion (since I'm a teacher)
In my opinion, some teachers are over-paid, while others are underpaid - it's not universal. Someone above mentioned that there is no teaching shortage - incorrect. There's a shortage of qualified math and science teachers. In NY, and I believe PA, secondary education teachers must have a MAJOR in the field that they wish to teach, not a major in education. Education is a minor. Some schools do have programs where the major is watered down a little though.

I was the one who said there were no shortage of teachers and I'm stating what I know
about my local area. Most people who have education degrees have to move out of my
home area because all the local schools have full staffs and they have to move to other
areas in order to get a teaching job.

Defintely the money (if that is what a person is chasing) is in administration. You can make
some really big money being a super or vice super in my area (compared to most other jobs
in this area).

What they are doing right now is patching the problem in your area by setting the requirements but
I believe the wages of teachers will rise as soon as the school systems run out of ways to patch the
system and there is a real overall teacher shortage. They will have to throw more dollars at people
in order to get them to come and live and teach in their area.

My utmost respect goes out to the folks who really have a heart for teaching because the way that most "families" support their young people the poor teachers are fighting a virtually hopeless battle.

Hmmmmm..... according to the first few sources I clicked on, there's a teacher shortage in Arkansas in several subject areas. Maybe you have a myopic view of the world and "your area" is defined arbitrarily small, as in your city? Regardless, the starting pay in Arkansas is pretty low.

The shortage must be in the Northwestern corner of the state where all the growth is currently.
And my area would be the area of several counties.

But as long as they have people who will work for less money that don't want to leave the state
for better money, wages will remain low.

 

[prvteye2003]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: prvteye2003

Originally posted by: tec699
I?ve brought this issue up from time to time and I feel it needs revisiting. Teachers are inadequately paid. Plain and simple. Take a look at the starting salary from state to state and you?ll find that in most states teachers are starting off at a measley $27,000 a year. They max out in the mid $40,000 and the starting teacher?s salary that I just mentioned is for the mid-west and south. On the east and west coast teachers start off between $36,000-$42,000 We max out in the mid $60,000 Some of the wealthier districts even go as high as $80,000 Now you might think that this is great but you have to realize that NJ is an expensive state to live in. I?m talking $400,000 houses, $8,000 a year property taxes, $2,000 car insurance, etc? That $40,000 starting salary isn?t so hot after all. Also, to get up to the mid $60,000 range your talking 15+ years of teaching. I have buddies that have business degrees. Their starting salary was comparable to a teachers starting salary but they quickly shot up to the mid $60?s in a few years while a public school teacher's salary increases so much slower. I?m talking a few thousand every 3-5 years. Teachers do have a great benefits package though.

So what am I trying to say? It amazes me that I have to go to a 4 year college like everyone else and I?ll have to endure the low teachers pay while my peers will be making double my salary. The people that would make great teachers are driven out of the education field due to the low pay. For instance, my dads buddy was telling me that he has a cousin that graduated with her masters degree in education. She is a single mother with 2 children. She got a job last year as a 1st grade teacher at a public school in South Carolina. Her starting salary was $24,000 How the hell can you survive on this paltry salary in today?s society and especially when children are involved? It?s a damn shame because she left at the Christmas break and immediately got a job working with computers starting at $60,000 a year. The public schools in South Carolina lost another good teacher.

Now I know what most are thinking to themselves? Teachers get the summers off and leave at 3pm everyday. That?s not fully correct. For example, I had to teach a lesson on primary and secondary colors to kindergarteners. I spent $20 of my own money and 3+ hours working on this project. I made an interactive learning center, poems, worksheets and handouts, and the actual lesson plan. These activities take time to prepare. I loved setting up and constructing the activities. It was a lot of fun but imagine doing this 3-4 times a week? I only did one lesson and it took some time to complete. Of course, as time progresses and I get the experience I?ll spend less time on my lessons. Plus, I?ll be able to save my activities for future use so the time shaping my lesson will decrease. Summers also aren?t just a relaxing time for most teachers. There are some teachers that go back to college in the Summer and they take the recommended courses that their district say that they need to take. Some take on Summer jobs to supplement their incomes but why should they have to do this? Why should individuals with bachelor and master degrees have to take on a second job? Shouldn?t their main job be enough to support their lifestyle? Usually though this isn?t the case.

Maybe they are trying to live a lifestyle they can't afford?

So simply buying a $200,000 dollar home and having a car is a lifestyle of the rich? They just want to live like most other people who have 4 year coillege degrees.

It is if you can only afford a $100k house.

 

[prvteye2003]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: prvteye2003
Maybe they are trying to live a lifestyle they can't afford?

It ain't what you make... it's what you spend.

exactly....thanks for making my statement for me. apparently, they are spending more than they make, therefore the reason for my statement.

 

[Ornery]

Average teacher salary for 180 days of work: $53,535 This is in a school system that is in debt to the tune of ten million dollars, and in state receivership. Of course, the teachers are helping out. They gave concessions on their last contract. They'll only be getting a 2.5% pay increase next year, instead of 5%. :roll:

 

[JoeKing]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Average teacher salary for 180 days of work: $53,535 This is in a school system that is in debt to the tune of ten million dollars, and in state receivership. Of course, the teachers are helping out. They gave concessions on their last contract. They'll only be getting a 2.5% pay increase next year, instead of 5%. :roll:

Factoring in inflation that pay increase amounts to .9%. Average teacher salary nationwide is about $45k a year with starting teachers coming in at a little over $30k. South Dakota teachers on the other hand recieve an average salary of $32K a year.

 

[Epoman]

Originally posted by: Ender
If the parents of children want a higher level of education for their children, private school is another option. Or those Sylvan Learning centers. This allows for people who have money to afford a stronger education for their children. Some parents dont have the money, but tough luck.

Did you know in private schools the teachers do NOT have to be certified, Like Public school teachers ARE.

 

[Epoman]

Originally posted by: homestarmy

Originally posted by: prvteye2003

Originally posted by: tec699
Why should individuals with bachelor and master degrees have to take on a second job? Shouldn?t their main job be enough to support their lifestyle? Usually though this isn?t the case.

Maybe they are trying to live a lifestyle they can't afford?

Agreed. I own a new house and a car and I'm living on $20k a year before tax. I make it by. It sucks, yep, but I make it. Maybe time to move to a new location?

Originally posted by: tec699
So simply buying a $200,000 dollar home and having a car is a lifestyle of the rich? They just want to live like most other people who have 4 year coillege degrees.

Yep, $200k is a DAMN NICE house where I'm at!

There are NO! $200,000 houses in a 50 mile range of my house. Hell not even a condo
:shocked:

Southern Cali. WessssstSIIIIIIIDE.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: JoeKing

Originally posted by: Ornery
Average teacher salary for 180 days of work: $53,535 This is in a school system that is in debt to the tune of ten million dollars, and in state receivership. Of course, the teachers are helping out. They gave concessions on their last contract. They'll only be getting a 2.5% pay increase next year, instead of 5%. :roll:

Factoring in inflation that pay increase amounts to .9%. Average teacher salary nationwide is about $45k a year with starting teachers coming in at a little over $30k. South Dakota teachers on the other hand recieve an average salary of $32K a year.

Do you NOT understand what State Receivership is?

The custodians and bus drivers all took a cut in pay. The teacher's "sacrifice" was a "cut" in their raise!

 

[thejackal1]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
and when you word 185 days a year while everyone else works 250....

EXACTLY!!!!!!!

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Epoman

Originally posted by: Ender
If the parents of children want a higher level of education for their children, private school is another option. Or those Sylvan Learning centers. This allows for people who have money to afford a stronger education for their children. Some parents dont have the money, but tough luck.

Did you know in private schools the teachers do NOT have to be certified, Like Public school teachers ARE.

Do you know that, in private schools, teachers have to show ability to educate children effectively or risk being fired while certified government school teachers have unions that protect them and allow them to keep their job when they are shown to under-perform or even be grossly incompetent?

What does certification mean really? That a person PAYED a gov't entity to prove that they learned something in school. I thought that's what a college degree was for.

Oh, and if you want to raise teacher's pay, how about cutting out some of the overhead (read administration). That is where alot of the money goes....towards bureacracy.

 

[JoeKing]

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: JoeKing

Originally posted by: Ornery
Average teacher salary for 180 days of work: $53,535 This is in a school system that is in debt to the tune of ten million dollars, and in state receivership. Of course, the teachers are helping out. They gave concessions on their last contract. They'll only be getting a 2.5% pay increase next year, instead of 5%. :roll:

Factoring in inflation that pay increase amounts to .9%. Average teacher salary nationwide is about $45k a year with starting teachers coming in at a little over $30k. South Dakota teachers on the other hand recieve an average salary of $32K a year.

Do you NOT understand what State Receivership is?

The custodians and bus drivers all took a cut in pay. The teacher's "sacrifice" was a "cut" in their raise!

That's that districts problem, the school board or superintendint should be changed. The administration is not handling their budget well. But judgeing from many of the school websites in that district the admin attracts better teachers with these large yearly pay hikes (planitarium in HS? lucky kids). Why should the teachers have to suffer due to poor administration.

Avg. national yearly income for teachers rise about 3.5%. They need this because of rises in the standard of living in their area. Remeber teachers do no get things like christmas bonuses like many other professions do.

What it seems your trying to imply is what's happening in that district is happening nationwide. I'm saying nationwide this is not the case.

 

[rh71]

I'm sure this has been stated in the 3 pages that I haven't read...

- you don't work all 52 weeks a year and those hours add up to a lot of free time.
- you know exactly what you are getting into

bless you for having a desire to teach our young, but seriously... if you want the money... teach college.

 

[Ornery]

"Remeber teachers do no get things like christmas bonuses like many other professions do..."

Remember, teachers only work < 200 days per year!

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: JoeKing
That's that districts problem, the school board or superintendint should be changed. The administration is not handling their budget well. But judgeing from many of the school websites in that district the admin attracts better teachers with these large yearly pay hikes (planitarium in HS? lucky kids). Why should the teachers have to suffer due to poor administration.

I don't know how it works in your state, but for most of the schools in NJ, the elected Board of Education presents a budget to the people in the district and then it is approved or not approved in a referendum.
If it's not approved (usually because the only way to increase the budget is to raise property taxes and people don't like that, especially in towns with lots of senior citizens who feel they gain nothing from the school), the teacher's union won't budge on their cushy contract, so the cuts come from somewhere else - non-unionized suckers and student programs.
The administration has very little input other than trying to work with the school board on what their needs are.
So in NJ, when the system goes to sh!t, there's two people to blame - the stubborn teacher's union, and the voters that elected the school board that went on to put together a budget proposal that was doomed to fail.

 

[phatj]

June, July August.

 

[Sophia]

To whose who think teachers only work eight hours per day, get to know more teachers.

I knew of a HS teacher who at one point was teaching six different foreign language classes per day (in two languages). Do you think those lesson plans write themselves? The teachers I've known well that were excellent teachers always took their work home.

The only teacher I ever had that I know never took work home (he said so, plus he had coaching responsibilities) was an atrocious teacher. What's the point of handing in homework if it doesn't come back graded until six weeks later, if at all?

I definitely vote for teachers being underpaid.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
What about police officers, most of them don't earn much more than teachers, and they risk their lives daily for the low pay.

Horsecrap. Police officers are paid well. I know quite a few....their benefits are unreal. I know a bunch of guys that have been on the force for close to 20 years....they have over 6 month's vacation/sick pay built up, are making pretty good money, and get lots of time off.
Yes, there are rare occasions that they lay their lives on the line, and for that, I thank them...but let's not fool ourselves: Cops have a pretty slack job most of the time.
Obviously, this may vary in certain areas, but overall, it's true.

 

[5LiterMustang]

You chose to get your teaching degree...and quite honestly its not all that horrible. While I think teachers should get paid more, they only work 9 months out of the year and have great hours and great benefits. In oklahoma they start around 27 or 28k a year, I'd like to see that about 33 or 34, I think that is plenty. But thats just my opinion.

 

[digitalsm]

So what am I trying to say? It amazes me that I have to go to a 4 year college like everyone else and I?ll have to endure the low teachers pay while my peers will be making double my salary. The people that would make great teachers are driven out of the education field due to the low pay.

Uh, people with B.A.s avg $30,000 a year. Most B.S. net the same.

Engineers make more, as do people with CS degrees, but they dont make twice as much starting out anymore. Most programmers make $40-45k starting out now. And thats only going to go down when the glut of programmers becomes bigger over the course of the next year or two.

 

[5LiterMustang]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

So what am I trying to say? It amazes me that I have to go to a 4 year college like everyone else and I?ll have to endure the low teachers pay while my peers will be making double my salary. The people that would make great teachers are driven out of the education field due to the low pay.

Uh, people with B.A.s avg $30,000 a year. Most B.S. net the same.

Engineers make more, as do people with CS degrees, but they dont make twice as much starting out anymore. Most programmers make $40-45k starting out now. And thats only going to go down when the glut of programmers becomes bigger over the course of the next year or two.

This is true, but other career paths generally offer advancement quicker. I think that was his point

 

[alphatarget1]

teachers don't deserve jack. if teachers are so great how come kids these days don't know jack? Family issues, YES that's a big part of it but a LOT of teachers are INCOMPETENT.

those who can't do, teach. now go take an EIT exam or PE exam, 8 hours for the first one and 2nd one for 16-20 hours. Can any teacher do it? MAYBE math and physics teachers but other than that, you don't know squat. sorry, i had to be blunt and it sounds insulting but it's the truth.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: HokieESM
Just an FYI (that's somewhat on topic): the average engineering professor makes less than $80K/year (for 12 months of work... its 3/4 of that if they don't work summers)... and at most institutions, they are expected to front 10~20% of their salary in research dollars (or they aren't paid that percentage). Its even worse for people in liberal arts fields--I have a friend who makes less at a professorship at a decent state university than she did at Barnes and Noble. And that's for someone who went to school for 4+2+4= 10 years.

(and yes, I do know that some professors are paid well. my advisor is one. I happen to just be interested in higher ed because, well, i'm defending my dissertation in a month).

The avg community college prof is paid $45k a year.

 

[JoeKing]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"Remeber teachers do no get things like christmas bonuses like many other professions do..."

Remember, teachers only work < 200 days per year!

And the only thanks they get comes is the forms or parents complaining, or admin breathing down their necks about test scores. Maybe if they're lucky a student might say how much they enjoy the class, or if they're younger the kids might give them a hug.... but a hug nowadays is out of the question for fear of sexual abuse.

Oh well if you don't think teachers are that important or their job are so easy, than by all means home school your child. They could use less ungrateful parents in the system anyway.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: JoeKing
And the only thanks they get comes is the forms or parents complaining, or admin breathing down their necks about test scores. Maybe if they're lucky a student might say how much they enjoy the class, or if they're younger the kids might give them a hug.... but a hug nowadays is out of the question for fear of sexual abuse.

I listed the panoply of thanks NJ teachers get in my first response to this thread.
Sorry nobody is buttering them up, but I've got news for you - nobody in any profession gets any thanks other than pissing and moaning from clients and management.

Originally posted by: 5LiterMustang
This is true, but other career paths generally offer advancement quicker. I think that was his point

What kind of advancement? They certainly get financial advancement quickly enough, regardless of actual abilities and performance. There's only so many principals, just as there are only so many vice presidents. The rest of us are just working stiffs.

 

[5LiterMustang]

As for cops, they are underpaid for the work they do. It is one of the most stressful jobs you can do. They start here at 36k and after your first year up to 40, and then after FIVE years your eligible for promotion to seargent which starts at 45 and goes up to 56, Lt starts at 54 and goes to 63k, captain 61 to 70, major 64 to 82k. Then they get incentive pay for staying on, after 20 years you get an additional 5k per year. They usually have options for extra jobs as well, and can make anywhere from 0 to 20k more doing that if they chose. But for the job they do its not much money, and once again their advancement is generally limited and slow.