[TechPowerUp article] FreeSync explained in more detail

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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Actually, it's parroting from AMD's head graphics guy, who says it DOES require new hardware.

Still hoping for an actual response to that, which has been quoted in this very thread.

It's very clear that there's some misinformation floating around, whether intentional or unintentional, with facts being a distant secondary consideration to this argument. Actually, facts aren't part of the argument. Apparently we have some hot shot internet expert engineers around here that know more than all of nvidia's engineers and AMD's VP of visual computing. I'm sure they could single handedly design a free-sync display on their own.
 
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stahlhart

Super Moderator Graphics Cards
Dec 21, 2010
4,273
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91
Participants in this discussion need to stop making it personal, or the moderation is going to start getting even more personal.
-- stahlhart
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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It's very clear that there's some misinformation floating around, whether intentional or unintentional, with facts being a distant secondary consideration to this argument. Actually, facts aren't part of the argument. Apparently we have some hot shot internet expert engineers around here that know more than all of nvidia's engineers and AMD's VP of visual computing. I'm sure they could single handedly design a free-sync display on their own.

Is it not a fact that they demoed it on an off the shelf laptop that uses eDP? Whatever hardware that's required is already being used in fairly cheap devices today.
 

sobe88

Member
Feb 11, 2013
27
0
0
While I certainly like the looks of G-Sync, a software based alternative might not be a bad direction. Some people on here need to chill. Innovation comes in many forms and most, if not all, start small somewhere. FreeSync is interesting and from the demo at CES it wasn't that impressive or smooth to my eyes as G-Sync was. I personally want to see what AMD can offer with FreeSync in current game titles or upcoming titles so we can see a difference.
 

rgallant

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2007
1,361
11
81
"It has logic to do prediction/colour correction"
and we know that will work a 100% with 100k's of random panels on all pixels.
-I think gsync is fine for who ever , but the tone in this thread is it's been field tested out in the wild by 100k of peeps with no issues .
I'd wait and see the ocn threads if I was in the market for that type of monitor.
 

dacostafilipe

Senior member
Oct 10, 2013
772
244
116
Have you guys looked into eDP's PSR (Panel Self-Refresh)?

It allows to hold an image in the buffer and gives the GPU a way to force refresh the screen by using the SDP (Secondary Data Packet) sent once per video frame. Laptops using this should all support something like FreeSync (G-Sync lite?).

For the desktops, I did find out that Paradetech does sell DDM-enabled T-Cons. DDM (Direct Drive Monitor) does provide a way to drive LCD screen's over DP without a controller in the screen. I did not find an available screen with this, but will keep you up-to-date.
 

Mand

Senior member
Jan 13, 2014
664
0
0
Have you guys looked into eDP's PSR (Panel Self-Refresh)?

Since you mentioned it, I started looking, and found this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7208/understanding-panel-self-refresh

From my understanding of what AMD has presented, that is effectively what FreeSync is doing, using some combination of VBLANK and PSR in order to hold the image until the GPU is ready, which is what you need to get variable refresh. Whether it can happen fast enough to happen frame-by-frame, adjusting frame times in the 16.67-33.3ms range, is something I'm not clear on. Given that the stated purpose of PSR is to save on GPU power when rendering tasks are low, I'm not sure how easy it will be to translate to a high-performance gaming environment.

Of course, it'd help if AMD had provided really any technical details at all about what they're doing or planning on doing with FreeSync, so that I don't have to resort to this kind of speculation.
 

dacostafilipe

Senior member
Oct 10, 2013
772
244
116
Whether it can happen fast enough to happen frame-by-frame, adjusting frame times in the 16.67-33.3ms range, is something I'm not clear on.

It should. The VESA specs say that you can control the PSR by using the MSA/SDP of the DP Protocol. This SDP is auxiliary data that is send with the frame information.

It's not clear if the hardware behing this is fast enough, but it sound promising.
 

sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
149
106
Have you guys looked into eDP's PSR (Panel Self-Refresh)?

It allows to hold an image in the buffer and gives the GPU a way to force refresh the screen by using the SDP (Secondary Data Packet) sent once per video frame. Laptops using this should all support something like FreeSync (G-Sync lite?).

PSR is not G-Sync. For that the GPU needs to know the time between the frames.
It's only working with TB - also with at least 3 frames in advance.
 

dacostafilipe

Senior member
Oct 10, 2013
772
244
116
PSR is not G-Sync. For that the GPU needs to know the time between the frames.
It's only working with TB - also with at least 3 frames in advance.

With PSR you can interrupt the actual image hold and get the frame from the DP input instead of the buffer. You don't need to know the time between frames.
 

ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
1,594
7
81
While I certainly like the looks of G-Sync, a software based alternative might not be a bad direction. Some people on here need to chill. Innovation comes in many forms and most, if not all, start small somewhere. FreeSync is interesting and from the demo at CES it wasn't that impressive or smooth to my eyes as G-Sync was. I personally want to see what AMD can offer with FreeSync in current game titles or upcoming titles so we can see a difference.

Have you guys looked into eDP's PSR (Panel Self-Refresh)?

It allows to hold an image in the buffer and gives the GPU a way to force refresh the screen by using the SDP (Secondary Data Packet) sent once per video frame. Laptops using this should all support something like FreeSync (G-Sync lite?).

For the desktops, I did find out that Paradetech does sell DDM-enabled T-Cons. DDM (Direct Drive Monitor) does provide a way to drive LCD screen's over DP without a controller in the screen. I did not find an available screen with this, but will keep you up-to-date.

Look, its been stated time and time again. Proven by the words of AMD's VP of visual computing and display Manufactures. Proven by the actions of AMD when they submitted a request to change the DisplayPort standard. Freesync requires some real changes. It is not a software hack. There is more to it, just as Nvidia said. Nvidia, the ones with the actual product out.

Honest to all goodness, I cannot wait to see Freesync. And I understand that it is exciting but lets wait to see how this plays out instead of letting our imaginations run wild. There is plenty of evidence saying that there will have to be some changes for freesync. And if it gets us to a better gaming experience in the end, whats the problem with it? I am all for it.

But not gonna sit and watch people claim you need nothing to change. Your just letting your imaginations run wild. Its been repeated time and time again that the experts disagree. The request (by AMD) to update the DP standard disagree. Why do we keep going backwards from here?

I am looking forward to this change. I think it is a major step for all of PC gaming. And we are at the very beginning. I am absolutely sure this is only the beginning. Nvidia created Gsync and now AMD is taken this seriously. They are now on board and gonna take another route. But the point is, they are trying to get to the same place. We will get there, i am sure of it.

But remember, this is the beginning. Gsync is still getting improved on, Freesync has some time to come. We dont know which method is better, we cannot possibly compare them. And heck, before the dust settles, we may have something in the middle. You just dont know. We can only imagine. And imaginations are running wild. We have to wait and see.
 
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