[TechPowerUp article] FreeSync explained in more detail

[TreVader]

That's funny, because a ton of forum posters will say the opposite. A lot of people seem to believe you can't get tearing, or see tearing if you are below your refresh rate, and you only notice it when you are above your refresh rate.

I just recognize that it is always there. There are different aspects of tearing that may or may not correlate to each theory.

At below your refresh rate, not every frame will tear. When you are above your refresh rate, every frame tears. At low FPS, when you turn, each frame is more offset than if you have high FPS, but high FPS will have multiple tears per refresh.

They are wrong and are not using Vsync. The whole point of Vsync is to remove tearing. The display doesn't refresh until it gets a new frame from the GC. Tearing is impossible if Vsync works correctly.


If you push high frame rates and don't use Vsync then of course you're going to get tearing.

 

[Mand]

Vsync off has tearing at all framerates that aren't exactly matched to your display's refresh rate.

Vsync on does not have tearing, but it does have input lag at all framerates, and stutter at framerates lower than the refresh rate.

G-sync eliminates tearing, eliminates stutter, and has the same input lag as Vsync off.

 

[McLovin42]

The display doesn't refresh until it gets a new frame from the GC. Tearing is impossible if Vsync works correctly.

Um no. The display doesn't wait for the GC, its the other way around. Nice try though............

 

[McLovin42]

We should see FreeSync around the same time we see the memory subsystem driver rewrite and 7xxx crossfire frame pacing fixes they've talked about for a year.

That soon?

 

[dacostafilipe]

You can repeat those claims until you're blue in the face, it still doesn't make them right.

And what did you post here that is "right"? I only see cherry picked quotes taken out of their context ...

 

[Mand]

And what did you post here that is "right"? I only see cherry picked quotes taken out of their context ...

With accompanying links to provide the full context, from reputable sources. Like interviews with company representatives.

I mean, if you want to just dismiss everything that doesn't conform to your established belief, that's fine, but that doesn't mean you're participating in rational discourse.

 

[Imouto]

You have not pointed to actual facts, you've pointed to a demo with laptops that has absolutely zero bearing on the capability to do the same thing in desktops. You've repeated what AMD said at that demo, that it's just a matter of a spec update for DisplayPort. That's been investigated by various tech reporters, and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. That's the facts. I'm sorry to have to say it, but you've bought the deceptive marketing of FreeSync hook, line, and syncer.

Remedying that misinformation is the whole point of the posts I've made here. AMD's claims aren't supported by the actual state of the technology. You can repeat those claims until you're blue in the face, it still doesn't make them right.

Just because you refuse to acknowledge that mobile and desktop displays are basically the same thing doesn't make you any right. The actual fact is that you can hack your way into a eDP panel from a DP graphics card. In your darn garage.

With accompanying links to provide the full context, from reputable sources. Like interviews with company representatives.

Plurals again! One partner company talking about a different technology.

 

[Mand]

If you have nothing more to comment on than my grammar, then I think you're beyond hope. In this case, I was referring to the numerous tech reporter interviews with AMD and Nvidia reps about this issue. Anyone who didn't just stop asking questions after seeing AMD's FreeSync presentation has come to the same conclusion. I really don't understand how you can be so dismissive of AMD itself saying that it would require compatible hardware in the displays in order to make FreeSync work.

And if this is so easy and can be done in your garage, please post details of how you're turning your desktop display into an amazing free version of G-Sync. I am being serious on this - I would like to see it, and I'm sure Anand would too. Send it up the chain, have it reported on.

 

[96Firebird]

Just because you refuse to acknowledge that mobile and desktop displays are basically the same thing doesn't make you any right.

Did you know laptop panels use eDP with a variable refresh rate for power saving reasons? So no, they are not the same.

Laptops, he explained, have a different display architecture than desktops, with a more direct interface between the GPU and the LCD panel, generally based on standards like LVDS or eDP (embedded DisplayPort). Desktop monitors use other interfaces, like HDMI and DisplayPort, and typically have a scaler chip situated in the path between the GPU and the panel. As a result, a feature like variable refresh is nearly impossible to implement on a desktop monitor as things now stand.

http://techreport.com/news/25878/nvidia-responds-to-amd-free-sync-demo

 

[sushiwarrior]

7xxx crossfire frame pacing fixes they've talked about for a year.

Lmfao wait, what issues are left? Software crossfire (eyefinity and 4k) are fixed in Cat 14.1, so you're saying that we'll have FreeSync in 5 days?

Did you know laptop panels use eDP with a variable refresh rate for power saving reasons? So no, they are not the same.


http://techreport.com/news/25878/nvidia-responds-to-amd-free-sync-demo

So right now, it may be possible on a monitor without a scaler (some Korean 27's don't have them), in the future it is possible with a display controller tweak, ergo no "extra" hardware, just different hardware. So to re-iterate, yes it is a "free" solution (no extra hardware, the same old GPU, cable, and panel with display controller) and yes it is very possible as long as some display makers decide to implement the feature.

Obviously this is all dependant on a few things, AMD must work with controller makers to get support, and their predictive method (since it is on the GPU/CPU's side) must be good to deliver a good experience. So I still don't see what is so inherently impossible about this idea. Lots of people throwing around stuff like "panel makers say it can't happen!", "it may cost someone an extra few cents ITS NOT FREE" and all that, I agree with the concerns about timeline as this will take a long time to trickle down, if it does come to fruition, but I don't agree with people saying it's impossible or going to be as hopelessly complex as Gsync.

Yes, Gsync exists now, if you want this tech now, it comes at a fee. For those who don't care so much, like me, I just hope it eventually makes its way into every GPU and monitor by default, no extra cost.

 

[Imouto]

If you have nothing more to comment on than my grammar, then I think you're beyond hope. In this case, I was referring to the numerous tech reporter interviews with AMD and Nvidia reps about this issue. Anyone who didn't just stop asking questions after seeing AMD's FreeSync presentation has come to the same conclusion. I really don't understand how you can be so dismissive of AMD itself saying that it would require compatible hardware in the displays in order to make FreeSync work.

It's not your grammar, you're trying to pass a single interview to a single assembler partner representative as an across industry universal agreement.

For a different technology on top of that.

Those guys didn't talk about a full DP 1.3 monitor at all, just about G-Sync.

And if this is so easy and can be done in your garage, please post details of how you're turning your desktop display into an amazing free version of G-Sync. I am being serious on this - I would like to see it, and I'm sure Anand would too. Send it up the chain, have it reported on.

http://emerythacks.blogspot.ca/

In case you missed it. Invalidating the point of the NV rep saying that laptop and desktop screens are different. They're a garage hack away from each other.

 

[96Firebird]

sushi, do we know if other laptops are capable of changing the refresh rate as fast as is needed for AMD's solution to work? Most only use it as a means to save power as it clocks down to 45Hz or 30Hz (can't remember which). Obviously the Toshiba can, or I should say we are trusting AMD that it can. Otherwise we are just assuming.

 

[dacostafilipe]

I mean, if you want to just dismiss everything that doesn't conform to your established belief, that's fine, but that doesn't mean you're participating in rational discourse.

I try (!) to discuss the tech by posting a new (!) article about the topic (that's what revived the thread) ...

... and you, you just repeat one part of an article again and again but ignore the rest of the article, because it does not fit your "belief".

If somebody is not rational about this topic, it's certainly you.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Lmfao wait, what issues are left? Software crossfire (eyefinity and 4k) are fixed in Cat 14.1, so you're saying that we'll have FreeSync in 5 days?

Quite impressive for a product released in 2011.

Its fixed huh, all the issues? You got that from a marketing slide did you?

 

[ocre]

I try (!) to discuss the tech by posting a new (!) article about the topic (that's what revived the thread) ...

... and you, you just repeat one part of an article again and again but ignore the rest of the article, because it does not fit your "belief".

If somebody is not rational about this topic, it's certainly you.

Is believing so hard in something that doesnt even exist rational? Will AMDs proposed solution even be comparable to gsync at all? How do we know how it will compare at all? Obviously there is more to it than most people think or we would already have freesync. And once we do (if ever) then we can see which method is best. Reserve the opinion until we can actually touch and feel it. Freesync may not compare at all to gsync. We just dont know

Look, this is all exciting to me. If AMD delivers a better method then we all have them to thank. But its not looking like any other solution is coming, at least not anytime soon. Gsync is it for now. And it is supposed to get a lot cheaper. I cannot wait until AMD comes out with an alternative. But it is looking like its gonna be a long time from now. So until we see it, everything people claim about it is unproven. For now it doesnt exist in the real world, as a product. And believing and arguing so hard over something that doesnt even exist, well.....thats not rational.

 

[blackened23]

Quite impressive for a product released in 2011.

Its fixed huh, all the issues? You got that from a marketing slide did you?

I for one applaud AMD's software team for fixing software and driver bugs that only took 2.5 years to fix, and I also love the fact that they're giving us hopes and dreams for a better world with freesync in 2015. Apparently, AMD doesn't need to have a product to actually exist , or software that actually works properly more often than not - their customer base can just pin their hopes on AMD promises for years on end. Apparently, this is how AMD operates. Give customers hope for a better future. Deliver on that (maybe?!) 1-3 years later.

Seriously, I can't even believe what i'm reading in this thread, it's so beyond ridiculous that it blows my mind. When AMD has a real product (in freesync) on the market that someone can buy and use then we can talk -- I think even their customers know deep down that free-sync isn't something that will happen in 2014 in all likelihood. Maybe 2015. If we're lucky. Maybe. Or, then again, maybe it will be another HD3D where AMD releases an API to the public hoping for adoption. Only for it to promptly disappear and be unsupported.

I want to see action out of AMD. I can respect action, and by that I can respect action when there's a product that customers can actually buy and use in freesync. That is respectable. Vaporware is not something I can respect. I can't respect marketing promises. The marketing promises are so, so so so so old. I mean, how silly is it that i'm reading about g-sync being doomed by free-sync, when free-sync isn't even close to hitting the market? When it sounds like AMD already lied about "free" sync being free? Just blows my mind. Whatever.

 

[Leadbox]

I for one applaud AMD's software team for fixing software and driver bugs that only took 2.5 years to fix, and I also love the fact that they're giving us hopes and dreams for a better world with freesync in 2015. Apparently, AMD doesn't need to have a product to actually exist , or software that actually works properly more often than not - their customer base can just pin their hopes on AMD promises for years on end. Apparently.

Forever editing these posts eh!
I hope your effort is well rewarded :thumbsup:

 

[Enigmoid]

I for one applaud AMD's software team for fixing software and driver bugs that only took 2.5 years to fix, and I also love the fact that they're giving us hopes and dreams for a better world with freesync in 2015. Apparently, AMD doesn't need to have a product to actually exist , or software that actually works properly more often than not - their customer base can just pin their hopes on AMD promises for years on end. Apparently, this is how AMD operates. Give customers hope for a better future. Deliver on that (maybe?!) 1-3 years later.

Seriously, I can't even believe what i'm reading in this thread, it's so beyond ridiculous that it blows my mind. When AMD has a real product (in freesync) on the market that someone can buy and use then we can talk -- I think even their customers know deep down that free-sync isn't something that will happen in 2014 in all likelihood. Maybe 2015. If we're lucky. Maybe. Or, then again, maybe it will be another HD3D where AMD releases an API to the public hoping for adoption. Only for it to promptly disappear and be unsupported.

I want to see action out of AMD. I can respect action, and by that I can respect action when there's a product that customers can actually buy and use in freesync. That is respectable. Vaporware is not something I can respect. I can't respect marketing promises. The marketing promises are so, so so so so old. I mean, how silly is it that i'm reading about g-sync being doomed by free-sync, when free-sync isn't even close to hitting the market? When it sounds like AMD already lied about "free" sync being free? Just blows my mind. Whatever.

Agree completely. People need to realize that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Free sync is useless unless it is available to use.

 

[caswow]

you can keep saying free sync sucks until its here but that is getting very boring.

 

[bystander36]

They are wrong and are not using Vsync. The whole point of Vsync is to remove tearing. The display doesn't refresh until it gets a new frame from the GC. Tearing is impossible if Vsync works correctly.


If you push high frame rates and don't use Vsync then of course you're going to get tearing.

You were talking about how tearing is worse below your refresh rate. Clearly we are talking about V-sync being disabled.

You said that tearing was worse below your refresh rate. I said most people say the opposite.

 

[Enigmoid]

you can keep saying free sync sucks until its here but that is getting very boring.

I know right. Especially when there are no plans to bring it forward.

 

[rgallant]

is not gsync. not just the latest holy grail of perfect gaming monitors tech. over the last 2 years ,[3d,light boost,oc1440,144,120hz] all peeps saying buy what I have and you'll never need to buy anything else , so what would be the count on that be if you replaced your monitor every time something new comes out - 6 monitors in 2 years ?

but of coarse this is the real deal this time right?

 

[bystander36]

is not gsync. not just the latest holy grail of perfect gaming monitors tech. over the last 2 years ,[3d,light boost,oc1440,144,120hz] all peeps saying buy what I have and you'll never need to buy anything else , so what would be the count on that be if you replaced your monitor every time something new comes out - 6 monitors in 2 years ?

but of coarse this is the real deal this time right?

All those tech's are things people like, and things people won't give up easily. 3D is about the only one that is a bit controversial, though I personally won't give it up.

G-sync is the next big thing that people will want, and not give up. That does not mean most people need to throw away their current monitor. It is something you'll purchase with your next monitor upgrade.

 

[3DVagabond]

I know right. Especially when there are no plans to bring it forward.

Considering that AMD has put forth a modification to the dp1.3 spec to incorporate it, I's say that constitutes plans to "bring it forward".

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Are far as all of this. "It's not free they are liars" that I'm seeing in many posts. If it's part of an open standard, it's free. Free for people to use and not be concerned that one company is going to hold it over people for big bucks. Make it to where it'll only work on their hardware. Make it to where it only works on specific monitors that they've collected their technology tax on.

Of course, we as consumers don't want anything like this. We want one company to build an empire and own us.

 

[videogames101]

It may not be hugely noticeable to you, but on a 60hz monitor, 300 FPS will give 5 tears per frame on average. It is most noticeable when you turn.

using 120hz, but no i notice 0 tearing