TechPowerup - Nvidia Kepler GK104 PCB Drawings and power connector pics

[Creig]

www.techpowerup.com/161597/NVIDIA-GK104-PCB-Drawings-Unusual-Power-Connector-Designs-Surface.html

Here is the first x-ray drawing of NVIDIA's GeForce Kepler 104 (GK104) reference board, outlining the VRM area. The GPU and memory areas are blanked out for some very obvious reasons. Nevertheless, there's plenty of fascinating stuff going on in these pictures. To begin with, the picture confirms that the board will have 5 NVVDD phases, and up to three miscellaneous power domains. The PCB has provisions for two 6-pin and one 8-pin connector.

The funny part here is a strange new plug that has two 6-pin (or 8-pin+6-pin) stacked, while one of the two 6-pin connector leads are blanked. Some of our sources also report having seen a similar connector with 8-pin and 6-pin on samples of this card (refer to the last picture below). It's not just this, that makes the card incapable of single-slot operation, the DVI connectors over at the display IO also are stacked like on previous-generation AMD Radeon cards. Other connectors on the card are HDMI and DisplayPort. There are two SLI bridge connectors, giving it 3-way and 4-way SLI support.

 

[Creig]

Interesting design for the power connectors. I'm not sure I've ever seen that before. It also appears that the lower connector has some sort of latch molded to the top. Not sure what that would be used for, because all the video card shrouds I've seen are held on with screws and 6-pin power connectors don't have latches to hold them in place.

It's also nice to see DP on an Nvidia mainstream card.

 

[Grooveriding]

Will post this here instead of the other thread as it is going downhill with a few angsted out fanboys. I took the pic from Chiphell and based on memory IC being 1.5cm, the die should be in the area of 360mm².

 

[railven]

Woof Creig, can you space out the pics (hit enter) in the OP so this thread isn't >1000 px wide! Some of us at work have craptacular monitors

That plug still strikes me as odd. More so because one of the connectors is indented inward. I wonder which the shroud would be flush with?

WTB pics of the shroud!

 

[Grooveriding]

Woof Creig, can you space out the pics (hit enter) in the OP so this thread isn't >1000 px wide! Some of us at work have craptacular monitors

That plug still strikes me as odd. More so because one of the connectors is indented inward. I wonder which the shroud would be flush with?

WTB pics of the shroud!

Yeah the shroud must look funky to accommodate that plug. Don't like the plug, will be a nuisance for situations where you can make the card occupy a single slot, such as water cooling.

What does it portend for the real large die Kepler though ? 4x6pin ? 2x8 & 1x6 ? 1x8 & 2x6 ? It's looks like they are prepping for a card that will need more than 2 PCIE power plugs at some point.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

In which case you'd be screwed anyways since the front end has DVI side by side.

 

[Madcatatlas]

Those power pin pics are not real. You wont see something like that on kepler

 

[boxleitnerb]

Will post this here instead of the other thread as it is going downhill with a few angsted out fanboys. I took the pic from Chiphell and based on memory IC being 1.5cm, the die should be in the area of 360mm².

Sorry, but a 170ball FBGA from Samsung/Hynix is 12x14mm, not 15x15mm.
http://www.hynix.com/mail/newsletter_2010_01/eng/sub03.html

 

[railven]

Yeah the shroud must look funky to accommodate that plug. Don't like the plug, will be a nuisance for situations where you can make the card occupy a single slot, such as water cooling.

What does it portend for the real large die Kepler though ? 4x6pin ? 2x8 & 1x6 ? 1x8 & 2x6 ? It's looks like they are prepping for a card that will need more than 2 PCIE power plugs at some point.

Not sure if it's just me, but looks like the solder points are there for another power plug?

4x8pin on the high end!? Haha. That be awesome!

 

[Grooveriding]

Sorry, but a 170ball FBGA from Samsung/Hynix is 12x14mm, not 15x15mm.
http://www.hynix.com/mail/newsletter_2010_01/eng/sub03.html

Mostly was meant as a rough guess. .1cm difference could account for 340mm2 or so. It is safe to say it's about 350mm2? :thumbsup:

Thus should be an interesting match up with the 7970 being about the same size. In the past nvidia has always had a faster card using a bigger die. We'll get to see how they both deliver at the same die size using the same and different clock speeds.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Mostly was meant as a rough guess. .1cm difference could account for 340mm2 or so. It is safe to say it's about 350mm2? :thumbsup:

Thus should be an interesting match up with the 7970 being about the same size. In the past nvidia has always had a faster card using a bigger die. We'll get to see how they both deliver at the same die size using the same and different clock speeds.

I measured 30 pixel lengths for the 12mm side of the memory chip. 47x45 pixels is the size of the die. That gives 340mm2 just as Charlie said.

 

[railven]

I measured 30 pixel lengths for the 12mm side of the memory chip. 47x45 pixels is the size of the die. That gives 340mm2 just as Charlie said.

That means Charlie is right? This card is going to blow chunks on 90% of games and birth unicorns in 5% of games!?

Make it $200 and I'm game!

 

[boxleitnerb]

200? Dream on. 300 is a fair price for a performance card in Tahiti XT territory.

 

[railven]

200? Dream on. 300 is a fair price for a performance card in Tahiti XT territory.

If it's $300 and in that perf range, I'd buy two! However, when I said something positive like that and I was called a troll.

The cheaper - the better!

 

[Grooveriding]

200? Dream on. 300 is a fair price for a performance card in Tahiti XT territory.

Yeah, but note the card supports at a minimum tri sli, $300 is equally a dream. $400 - $450 is my guess. If the card can compete with 7970, and it should at a similar die size, they will not price it $250 cheaper.

Aw heck, I think it will be $150 actually. Nvidia is planning to make this the loyalty launch. Cheap cards for all.

 

[96Firebird]

Not sure how I feel about that power connector, seems odd. Maybe this is an engineering board? I really don't know anything about prototype video cards, just seems weird they would stick those power connectors and 2 SLI connectors on a card with such a small die size...

 

[boxleitnerb]

Yeah, but note the card supports at a minimum tri sli, $300 is equally a dream. $400 - $450 is my guess. If the card can compete with 7970, and it should at a similar die size, they will not price it $250 cheaper.

Aw heck, I think it will be $150 actually. Nvidia is planning to make this the loyalty launch. Cheap cards for all.

You people just don't get it. 400-450$ for a performance part is insane. No Nvidia performance part has been this expensive. If you could just admit that Tahiti is way overpriced in the grand scheme of the combined 28nm lineup of AMD+Nvidia, we would be actually getting somewhere with this discussion.
What idiot would pay that much money for a GK104 card? The same idiot that would pay 700-800 bucks for a GK110 and 1000 for GK104x2? Rrrrrright.

9800GT supported tri-sli. How much was that? Hint: not 400-450.

 

[railven]

Could be possible at the end of the day, this will be their flagship until they work the kinks out on BigK? /shrug

Whatever they got to do to bring something to market, do it. Tired of the "wait, it's worth it." Just get it out there and let me decide on buying it already!

Still, WTB shroud pics + benches!

 

[blckgrffn]

You people just don't get it. 400-450$ for a performance part is insane. No Nvidia performance part has been this expensive. If you could just admit that Tahiti is way overpriced in the grand scheme of the combined 28nm lineup of AMD+Nvidia, we would be actually getting somewhere with this discussion.
What idiot would pay that much money for a GK104 card? The same idiot that would pay 700-800 bucks for a GK110 and 1000 for GK104x2? Rrrrrright.

9800GT supported tri-sli. How much was that? Hint: not 400-450.

lol, seriously?

So, if it is as fast/faster than GTX 580 and incorporates much better power usage, etc. you really think it will be cheaper than the GTX 580 is right now?

Why would nvidia do that?

I predict plenty of "idiots" - including a good many folks right here, on this forum, would pay that much for these guys.

Nvidia can stick a bunch of these into workstation cards and Tesla servers as well, so it's not like they need to move them all as "cheap" gaming cards, as far as I know.

I paid $400+ for my 6800U years ago, inflation adjusted it would probably be encroaching on $500. So idiots have been doing this for quite some time

 

[RussianSensation]

Yeah, but note the card supports at a minimum tri sli, $300 is equally a dream. $400 - $450 is my guess. If the card can compete with 7970, and it should at a similar die size, they will not price it $250 cheaper.
.

GK104 is a 256-bit upper-mid-range Kepler part though. It shouldn't technically beat HD7970 based on its ranking in the NV hierarchy. Basically if you take away the branding (they can call whatever they want, GTX680, etc.), this card is a direct replacement of a GTX560Ti as I have understood it. All NVidia really needs to do is launch it at $399 with performance between HD7950 and HD7970. If GK104 is priced at $450+, where is the "real" GTX680 going end up, $650-700? Currently GTX580 is 42% faster on average than a GTX560Ti. If GK104 even comes close to HD7970, then high-end Kepler should be a monster.

I still can't see GK104 having any chance outperforming an HD7970 in overclocked vs. overclocked states considering it's supposedly a 256-bit card going against a 384-bit card with immense overclocking headroom.

If hypothetically this upper-mid-range card can actually beat HD7970 in DX11 games such as Batman, Crysis 2, BF3, Metro 2033, I don't know how NV can price it at $450+, since in the end it's still their mid-range card . . . unless the new mid-range is going to become $400-450 battleground?

lol, seriously?

So, if it is as fast/faster than GTX 580 and incorporates much better power usage, etc. you really think it will be cheaper than the GTX 580 is right now?

Why would nvidia do that?

Because that's how it's been in the past going far back.

GeForce 4200Ti = midrange > GeForce 3 Ti 500 high end, sold for less
6600GT = midrange > 5950 Ultra, sold for less
7900GT = upper-midrange > 7800GTX 256mb high-end, sold for less
8800GT/S = upper-midrange > 7900GTX high-end, sold for less
GTX470 = upper-midrange > GTX280/285 high-end, sold for less
GTX570 = upper-midrange = GTX480, GTX570 brought lower power, sold for less $

* When I say sold for less $, I it's MSRP. Obviously fire sale GTX480s cost less than a new 570.

The only reason GTX580 is still $450 is because HD7950 is barely faster. So NV has 0 incentive to lower prices.

However, NV's mid-range being as fast as their previous high-end card for less $ is actually what's expected. It has been that way historically for 10 years.

It's only since AMD brought out HD7950 that we got a card that's "as fast" as a GTX580 with lower power for the same $. Let's not pretend that that's the norm in any way.

 

[Grooveriding]

You people just don't get it. 400-450$ for a performance part is insane. No Nvidia performance part has been this expensive. If you could just admit that Tahiti is way overpriced in the grand scheme of the combined 28nm lineup of AMD+Nvidia, we would be actually getting somewhere with this discussion.
What idiot would pay that much money for a GK104 card? The same idiot that would pay 700-800 bucks for a GK110 and 1000 for GK104x2? Rrrrrright.

9800GT supported tri-sli. How much was that? Hint: not 400-450.

The only 9800 that did was an asus custom. Anyway this is a board shot, not a price slide, wait till it is out and see uf you get it for $300... No need for anyone to agree with your opinion/hope for a discussion to continue.

 

[sontin]

GK104 is a 256-bit upper-mid-range Kepler part though. It shouldn't technically beat HD7970 based on its ranking in the NV hierarchy. Basically if you take away the branding (they can call it GTX780 for all we care, etc.), this card is a direct replacement of a GTX560Ti as I have understood it. All NVidia really needs to do is launch it at $399 with performance between HD7950 and HD7970.

I can't see GK104 having any chance outperforming an HD7970 in overclocked vs. overclocked states considering it's supposedly a 256-bit card and given the immense overclocking headroom that HD7970 has.

Your comment about it performing similarly to HD7970 given the die size? I am not sure: 256-bit vs. 384-bit. Also, NV likely has extra transistors allocated for things needed in Quadro, Tesla markets, PhysX. It's hard to imagine an NV chip being more efficient per die size.

If hypothetically this upper-mid-range card can actually beat HD7970 in DX11 games such as Batman, Crysis 2, BF3, Metro 2033, I don't know how NV can price it at $450+, since in the end it's still their mid-range card . . . unless the new mid-range is going to become $400-450 battleground?

Or:
GK104 is BigK. Look at the rumored specs. Would you believe that such a chip would be only midrange?

 

[railven]

You people just don't get it. 400-450$ for a performance part is insane. No Nvidia performance part has been this expensive. If you could just admit that Tahiti is way overpriced in the grand scheme of the combined 28nm lineup of AMD+Nvidia, we would be actually getting somewhere with this discussion.
What idiot would pay that much money for a GK104 card? The same idiot that would pay 700-800 bucks for a GK110 and 1000 for GK104x2? Rrrrrright.

9800GT supported tri-sli. How much was that? Hint: not 400-450.

Has nVidia 28nm pricing already been released? That's the only way I can actually compare pricing on the two. Please share.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't know the majority of people buying cards knew the chip series number. They only know the name. So if the card has a GTX 670 name, they're probably expecting to pay $350+ like they did for the last two generations.

The only idiots paying $X-amount for X-Chip are us. Since we know that information.

 

[blckgrffn]

GK104 is a 256-bit upper-mid-range Kepler part though. It shouldn't technically beat HD7970 based on its ranking in the NV hierarchy. Basically if you take away the branding (they can call it GTX780 for all we care, etc.), this card is a direct replacement of a GTX560Ti as I have understood it. All NVidia really needs to do is launch it at $399 with performance between HD7950 and HD7970.

I can't see GK104 having any chance outperforming an HD7970 in overclocked vs. overclocked states considering it's supposedly a 256-bit card and given the immense overclocking headroom that HD7970 has.

Your comment about it performing similarly to HD7970 given the die size? I am not sure: 256-bit vs. 384-bit. Also, NV likely has extra transistors allocated for things needed in Quadro, Tesla markets, PhysX. It's hard to imagine an NV chip being more efficient per die size.

If hypothetically this upper-mid-range card can actually beat HD7970 in DX11 games such as Batman, Crysis 2, BF3, Metro 2033, I don't know how NV can price it at $450+, since in the end it's still their mid-range card . . . unless the new mid-range is going to become $400-450 battleground?

Wouldn't it only be their "midrange" card after they have launched a higher level SKU? Where it lands on their internal roadmaps doesn't necessarily correlate to where it could find itself priced in the marketplace. (IMHO)

 

[boxleitnerb]

lol, seriously?

So, if it is as fast/faster than GTX 580 and incorporates much better power usage, etc. you really think it will be cheaper than the GTX 580 is right now?

Why would nvidia do that?

Of course I believe that. It's called "progress". Did the GTX460 cost as much as the GTX285 initially, even after the price cut? No - it was far cheaper. New midrange beats old highend, nothing new here.

Has nVidia 28nm pricing already been released? That's the only way I can actually compare pricing on the two. Please share.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't know the majority of people buying cards knew the chip series number. They only know the name. So if the card has a GTX 670 name, they're probably expecting to pay $350+ like they did for the last two generations.

The only idiots paying $X-amount for X-Chip are us. Since we know that information.

The 6870 was even cheaper than the 5850. Just because a company changes its naming scheme doesn't mean prices change accordingly. They can name it what they want. If it is a midrange chip, it will be priced as one. Sorry, won't change my mind. As of now all 7000 cards are way too expensive (MSRP). Once Kepler hits, everyone will see that. EOD for me, believe what you want.