[techpowerup] Radeon HD 7970 FOB Price Cut to $475

[blackened23]

Yes the 7970 which is priced cheaper than a 3gb GTX 580 -- the 3gb GTX 580 has a MSRP of 589.99. While the 7970 performs better, scales better, overclocks better, will have 1335 mhz parts on day 1, scales better in dual gpu configurations, and is cheaper to boot even at 550$.

stock:

moderate overclock:

crossfire scaling:

Lets also remember Fermi had what, 10 failed prototypes and was delayed for more than a year? There is no prototype of kepler and it has only recently taped out. Fermi took well over a year after tapeout to be released. And that was after a ton of failed prototypes, there is no kepler prototype. Maybe nvidia can pull a rabbit out of their hat, and I would not complain because the GTX 580 is a great product (which I also own 2 of) But arguing against AMD based on price? What? I guess we'll see at CES. Maybe that will shed more light on Kepler.

I've never understood fanboyism, like people defending Nvidia or AMD, as if there is a need to defend a hardware manufacturer just because you own one of their products. Be honest with yourself and buy whatever is the best bang for the buck at the time you would like to upgrade, regardless of the manufacturer. Some of the apologists in this thread arguing with price when nvidia has a history of being greedy pricks? Just be honest with yourself and stop being blind to the truth. The 7970 is a beast of a card that overclocks ridiculously well. Arguing against the 7970 on a price basis is just the height of idiocy, because even -- as I said -- it is cheaper than the 3gb GTX 580 even at 550$ As well this story is not true, the card is still 550$.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Your post is inflammatory. Some of your points are valid, but the way you have presented them is not.

 

[96Firebird]

I love the AMD fanboys that think they know whats going on at Nvidia behind closed doors, they make me laugh. :awe:

 

[Don Karnage]

Some of the nvidia fanboys posting here make me laugh incredibly hard. Yes the 7970 which is priced cheaper than a 3gb GTX 580 -- the 3gb GTX 580 has a MSRP of 589.99 While the 7970 performs better, scales better, overclocks better, will have 1335 mhz parts on day 1, scales better in dual gpu configurations, and is cheaper to boot even at 550$.

Does newegg have 7970's for sale yet? Then how do you know how they'll be priced? Like i said yesterday the 7970's listed now are all over 600 dollars and i still think newegg will mark them up to around 579.99+.

Cheapest 580 3GB is 549.99 on the egg.

 

[Will Robinson]

@ Arkadrel...your page 3 rebuttal was awesome.
+1 for all the charts,benches and comments.:thumbsup:

 

[blackened23]

Does newegg have 7970's for sale yet? Then how do you know how they'll be priced? Like i said yesterday the 7970's listed now are all over 600 dollars and i still think newegg will mark them up to around 579.99+.

Cheapest 580 3GB is 549.99 on the egg.

I'm comparing MSRP to MSRP. The stock gtx 580 3gb MSRP is 589.99, stock 7970 MSRP is 549.99.

 

[JAG87]

Some of the nvidia fanboys posting here make me laugh incredibly hard. Yes the 7970 which is priced cheaper than a 3gb GTX 580 -- the 3gb GTX 580 has a MSRP of 589.99 While the 7970 performs better, scales better, overclocks better, will have 1335 mhz parts on day 1, scales better in dual gpu configurations, and is cheaper to boot even at 550$.

Lets also remember Fermi had what, 10 failed prototypes and was delayed for more than a year? There is no prototype of kepler and it has only recently taped out. Fermi took well over a year after tapeout to be released. And that was after a ton of failed prototypes, there is no kepler prototype. By all means, continue being nvidia apologists though :thumbsup: Nvidia definitely doesn't overcharge, 850$ 8800 ultra anyone?

I've never understood fanboyism, like people defending Nvidia or AMD, as if there is a need to defend a hardware manufacturer just because you own one of their products. Be honest with yourself and buy whatever is the best bang for the buck at the time you would like to upgrade, regardless of the manufacturer. Some of the apologists in this thread arguing with price when nvidia has a history of being greedy pricks? Just be honest with yourself and stop being blind to the truth. The 7970 is a beast of a card that overclocks ridiculously well. Arguing against the 7970 on a price basis is just the height of idiocy, because even -- as I said -- it is cheaper than the 3gb GTX 580 even at 550$ As well this story is not true, the card is still 550$.

You're just completely missing the point.

First of all, the GTX 580 is a product based on an architecture that is almost 2 YEARS OLD. It wasn't a good value when it released in Nov 2010, and it's even worse of a value today. The GTX 480 on the other hand was a good value in March 2010, because for $499 you got performance that is still near the top almost 2 years later. Same thing with the 5870 in Sept 2009... now that was a good investment.

The 7970, being barely faster than a Fermi card that is almost 2 years old architecture, doesn't give any indication of being able to stay on top for 2 years (actually it may be just a few months before it gets obliterated), hence it's a bad investment. Of course it may overclock by 30% like some claims, but this is all garbage until you see it with your own eyes that it overclocks and it's actually stable.

 

[blackened23]

Fair enough, I guess the pricing does throw people for a loop. The 5870 even while being the GPU king for 8 months or so was priced somewhat moderately, so this is new ground for AMD. In fact, the 5870 was probably priced well below what it should have been priced at.

A ton of people will still buy this card on release I believe, hopefully resellers won't price gouge.

 

[Don Karnage]

A ton of people will still buy this card on release I believe, hopefully resellers won't price gouge.

If i was a retailer i would from day 1 because of all the hype

 

[Arzachel]

I think AMD did this to actually decrease price gouging. The MSRP hasn't been changed, so the retailers get quite nice margins from the 7970. That it's in the retailer interests to stock as many as possible, which in turn balances out supply with demand and creates competition between the retailers.

Hopefully It'll work out well for everyone involved.

 

[SirPauly]

This is what I read into it too.

Basically supply is stronger than expected, so prices will decrease to sell what they can while nVidia ramps up 28nm.
Either TSMC has increased their capacity quicker than expected and given AMD the option to purchase larger volume or yields are higher than expected at this stage in MFG. I'd lean towards the latter, but we'll probably never know.

If they are smart they will continue to drop prices via MIR rather than a flat drop. Dumb people will still equate price with performance, and dropping below GTX580 prices will result in loss of the ignorant marketshare who willingly give away money.

Demand and supply are important but so is performance/value and market share.

 

[SirPauly]

I'm comparing MSRP to MSRP. The stock gtx 580 3gb MSRP is 589.99, stock 7970 MSRP is 549.99.

If someone desires to look at just that context? Sure, the HD 7970 offers more value than a GTX 580 3 gig product.

I made a point that in the history of GPU's, well, has there ever been a launch where the percentage MSRP gain from their past GPU was larger than their performance gain from their past GPU? I think this is a first.

Where is the value compared to their past GPU's? Like this isn't a fair point?

Now, all of a sudden, the mighty GTX 580, on an older 40mn, already premium priced, is the objective barometer for pricing and the word -- value.

I'm curious to see how this change of pricing here and how it trickles down to their other products plays out for the future.

 

[Quantos]

You're just completely missing the point.

First of all, the GTX 580 is a product based on an architecture that is almost 2 YEARS OLD. It wasn't a good value when it released in Nov 2010, and it's even worse of a value today. The GTX 480 on the other hand was a good value in March 2010, because for $499 you got performance that is still near the top almost 2 years later. Same thing with the 5870 in Sept 2009... now that was a good investment.

The 7970, being barely faster than a Fermi card that is almost 2 years old architecture, doesn't give any indication of being able to stay on top for 2 years (actually it may be just a few months before it gets obliterated), hence it's a bad investment. Of course it may overclock by 30% like some claims, but this is all garbage until you see it with your own eyes that it overclocks and it's actually stable.

The GTX480 may still be quick, but if someone's used it for two years, they've surely repaid that in electricity used.

To me, the fact that Sapphire plans to release a card at 1335MHz is enough proof that the card is a stable overclocker. Factory OCed cards are commonly weak overclocks that are not hard to do, and need no or low voltage tweaking. Even if we assume that this is a different scenario and that it's more than a decent overclock, it's still hard to believe that a partner would release a card that isn't stable. They're definitely going to ask more than MSRP for this, so do you really think they're going to get people to pay say, $600 for a card that's not stable?

Also, the 580 is on top for a few more days and in total will have been on top for a while, granted, but it's not the first iteration of the architecture; the 480 is. The 480, while still quick, isn't as fast as the 580. Now, if you add to the current performance of the stock 7970 the following factors:

- Driver evolution;
- OC good enough for partners to release cards 400MHz faster than the reference;
- First iteration of the architecture.

It sounds to me like there's a lot of room for improvement here. Also, the equivalent of what you're saying is to say that in about two years, the card that is to the 480 what the 580 is will be on top of the single GPU charts. Thus, that wouldn't necessarily be the 7970, but could be a potential remake of the card, using the same, but refined, architecture.
-

 

[blackened23]

The GTX480 may still be quick, but if someone's used it for two years, they've surely repaid that in electricity used.

To me, the fact that Sapphire plans to release a card at 1335MHz is enough proof that the card is a stable overclocker. Factory OCed cards are commonly weak overclocks that are not hard to do, and need no or low voltage tweaking. Even if we assume that this is a different scenario and that it's more than a decent overclock, it's still hard to believe that a partner would release a card that isn't stable. They're definitely going to ask more than MSRP for this, so do you really think they're going to get people to pay say, $600 for a card that's not stable?

Also, the 580 is on top for a few more days and in total will have been on top for a while, granted, but it's not the first iteration of the architecture; the 480 is. The 480, while still quick, isn't as fast as the 580. Now, if you add to the current performance of the stock 7970 the following factors:

- Driver evolution;
- OC good enough for partners to release cards 400MHz faster than the reference;
- First iteration of the architecture.

It sounds to me like there's a lot of room for improvement here. Also, the equivalent of what you're saying is to say that in about two years, the card that is to the 480 what the 580 is will be on top of the single GPU charts. Thus, that wouldn't necessarily be the 7970, but could be a potential remake of the card, using the same, but refined, architecture.
-

Its a near certainty that AMD will do a Fermi type refersh with the 7970. The scalability is so ridiculously good that they would be crazy not to once yields improve further. They obviously couldn't do this with Cayman because it simply did not scale well with increased clock speeds, much unlike the tahiti.

 

[SirPauly]

The GTX480 may still be quick, but if someone's used it for two years, they've surely repaid that in electricity used.

To me, the fact that Sapphire plans to release a card at 1335MHz is enough proof that the card is a stable overclocker. Factory OCed cards are commonly weak overclocks that are not hard to do, and need no or low voltage tweaking. Even if we assume that this is a different scenario and that it's more than a decent overclock, it's still hard to believe that a partner would release a card that isn't stable. They're definitely going to ask more than MSRP for this, so do you really think they're going to get people to pay say, $600 for a card that's not stable?

Also, the 580 is on top for a few more days and in total will have been on top for a while, granted, but it's not the first iteration of the architecture; the 480 is. The 480, while still quick, isn't as fast as the 580. Now, if you add to the current performance of the stock 7970 the following factors:

- Driver evolution;
- OC good enough for partners to release cards 400MHz faster than the reference;
- First iteration of the architecture.

It sounds to me like there's a lot of room for improvement here. Also, the equivalent of what you're saying is to say that in about two years, the card that is to the 480 what the 580 is will be on top of the single GPU charts. Thus, that wouldn't necessarily be the 7970, but could be a potential remake of the card, using the same, but refined, architecture.
-

I'm not disagreeing but how do you know as fact Sapphire will or plan to release such a product with clocking that high?

 

[SirPauly]

Its a near certainty that AMD will do a Fermi type refersh with the 7970. The scalability is so ridiculously good that they would be crazy not to once yields improve further. They obviously couldn't do this with Cayman because it simply did not scale well with increased clock speeds, much unlike the tahiti.

A fermi type refresh was offering a fully enabled core though.

 

[Arkadrel]

I'm not disagreeing but how do you know as fact Sapphire will or plan to release such a product with clocking that high?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2216254

 

[Quantos]

I'm not disagreeing but how do you know as fact Sapphire will or plan to release such a product with clocking that high?

See what Arkadrel posted.

Granted, it's a roadmap-type thing, and cannot be taken as 100% fact, but if genuine, it means the card will truly exist, and prove the OCability of the card.

Edit: Also, the card was OCed to 1700MHz on LN2. The cooling method isn't valid, of course, but the simple fact that it can be OCed so high AND run benchmarks successfully means that the limitation, at least up to that point, isn't voltage stability, but heat. Now, the standard cooler can do at least 1125MHz while keeping the card quite cool (though while blowing out your ear drums). At least, the limitation of reviewers seemed to be voltage increase, not cooling. With a custom PCB and cooler and some voltage tweaks, 1335MHz seems entirely reasonable then.

 

[SirPauly]

That also showed a potential sku that offered more cores for Tahiti as well and AMD, officially said that there are no hidden cores.

 

[Arkadrel]

That also showed a potential sku that offered more cores for Tahiti as well and AMD, officially said that there are no hidden cores.

Maybe there is such a SKU? or will be (at some point)?

AMD just said that there arnt hidden/lazered off cores, in their current 7xxx series...
maybe that card comes out lateron ( isnt without stuff, AND neither is the current 7970).

It ll simply be a bigger chip... maybe thats the 8xxx series? top chip, again on 28nm.



looks like it says 2304 shaders... its hard to read cuz its blacked out.
Thats only 12,5% more shaders, so doesnt sound like that much, maybe its to fight off the 680?
a 7980 chip?

 

[JAG87]

See what Arkadrel posted.

Granted, it's a roadmap-type thing, and cannot be taken as 100% fact, but if genuine, it means the card will truly exist, and prove the OCability of the card.

Edit: Also, the card was OCed to 1700MHz on LN2. The cooling method isn't valid, of course, but the simple fact that it can be OCed so high AND run benchmarks successfully means that the limitation, at least up to that point, isn't voltage stability, but heat. Now, the standard cooler can do at least 1125MHz while keeping the card quite cool (though while blowing out your ear drums). At least, the limitation of reviewers seemed to be voltage increase, not cooling. With a custom PCB and cooler and some voltage tweaks, 1335MHz seems entirely reasonable then.

It doesn't mean squat. It could be a misprint, it could be 1135 Mhz instead of 1335, it could also be photo shopped. If I feed you a piece of paper showing a Kepler beating a 7970 by 50%, will you tend to think it's genuine? I bet you won't. So keep your feet on the ground.

 

[SirPauly]

Edit: Also, the card was OCed to 1700MHz on LN2. The cooling method isn't valid, of course, but the simple fact that it can be OCed so high AND run benchmarks successfully means that the limitation, at least up to that point, isn't voltage stability, but heat. Now, the standard cooler can do at least 1125MHz while keeping the card quite cool (though while blowing out your ear drums). At least, the limitation of reviewers seemed to be voltage increase, not cooling. With a custom PCB and cooler and some voltage tweaks, 1335MHz seems entirely reasonable then.

If accurate, bodes well for this architecture based on the the sku's potential clocks -- 1125 and two skus with 1335.

 

[SirPauly]

Maybe there is such a SKU? or will be (at some point)?

AMD just said that there arnt hidden/lazered off cores, in their current 7xxx series...
maybe that card comes out lateron ( isnt without stuff, AND neither is the current 7970).

It ll simply be a bigger chip... maybe thats the 8xxx series? top chip, again on 28nm.

Could be -- anything is possible. There seems to be some semantic wiggle room with their answer.

 

[notty22]

It doesn't mean squat. It could be a misprint, it could be 1135 Mhz instead of 1335, it could also be photo shopped. If I feed you a piece of paper showing a Kepler beating a 7970 by 50%, will you tend to think it's genuine? I bet you won't. So keep your feet on the ground.

I agree. It's shot sideways at a angle for a reason. Facts we know. AMD is releasing the card with stock clocks of 925mhz.

 

[bryanW1995]

It's still worth it to me mainly because you will have the fastest card for those months, and then when kepler comes out the performance difference between the two will be a non factor.

You're talking about cards that are going to be getting over 60fps constant for the average user at all settings for probably the next 1.5-2 years. So who cares if you 7970 gets 60fps in a game and the gtx780 gets 70 fps. The performance difference at those framerates is pointless.

If it was going from 25 fps to 35 fps it would actually make a difference. The performance of these 28nm GPU's has finally come to the point where game development won't punish them until we get a new console generation which is projected in 2015.

Buy now and don't worry.

Especially if you don't have a 120hz monitor...