Techreport: A note on rumors about gtx 590 issues.

[Seero]

Wait, I am confused. Nvidia is responsible to their GPU (bumpgate) and AMD is not responsible for anything, right?

That is okay, as long as you will go by your rules. It isn't Keys you stated AMD isn't going to warranty overclock 6990, AMD did.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/carl/amds-official-statement-over-hd6990-warranty/

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...6990/Pages/amd-radeon-hd-6990-overview.aspx#4

WARNING: AMD graphics cards are intended to be operated only within their associated specifications and factory settings. Operating your AMD graphics card outside of specification or in excess of factory settings, including but not limited to overclocking, may damage your graphics card and/or lead to other problems, including but not limited to, damage to your system components (including your motherboard and components thereon (e.g. memory)); system instabilities (e.g. data loss and corrupted images); shortened graphics card, system component and/or system life; and in extreme cases, total system failure. AMD does not provide support or service for issues or damages related to use of an AMD graphics card outside of specifications or in excess of factory settings. You may also not receive support or service from your system manufacturer.

DAMAGES CAUSED BY USE OF YOUR AMD GRAPHICS PROCESSOR OUTSIDE OF SPECIFICATION OR IN EXCESS OF FACTORY SETTINGS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER YOUR AMD PRODUCT WARRANTY AND MAY NOT BE COVERED BY YOUR SYSTEM MANUFACTURER’S WARRANTY.

Hey if it is okay for you, then it is okay. Seriously, I OC my Q6600 since day one, and I knew it voids warranties. I even lapped the CPU (hey no warranties anyway.) So what?

The only problem is when those who believe a company is responsible for those who failed to OC.

 

[WelshBloke]

Wait, I am confused. Nvidia is responsible to their GPU (bumpgate) and AMD is not responsible for anything, right?

That is okay, as long as you will go by your rules. It isn't Keys you stated AMD isn't going to warranty overclock 6990, AMD did.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/carl/amds-official-statement-over-hd6990-warranty/

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...6990/Pages/amd-radeon-hd-6990-overview.aspx#4


Hey if it is okay for you, then it is okay. Seriously, I OC my Q6600 since day one, and I knew it voids warranties. I even lapped the CPU (hey no warranties anyway.) So what?

The only problem is when those who believe a company is responsible for those who failed to OC.

AMD is not going to honour your warranty because you dont have a warranty with AMD. I'm not sure why your finding this difficult to understand.

You have a warranty with Intel for your Q6600 because that's who you bought it from (As well as the reseller).

 

[-Slacker-]

On that note, is there a way for the manufacturer to actually know that you've been overclocking the card other than looking at your bios and seeing that the settings have been changed? Like, if you only rma your card, and not your whole rig, which is what usually happens.

 

[WelshBloke]

On that note, is there a way for the manufacturer to actually know that you've been overclocking the card other than looking at your bios and seeing that the settings have been changed? Like, if you only rma your card, and not your whole rig, which is what usually happens.

They can make a guess depending on the type of damage but theres no secret record of it, nothing is written to the firmware or anything. At least not for AMD cards, who knows about nVidia ones, Keys seems to have heard of this sort of thing.

 

[railven]

Wait, I am confused. Nvidia is responsible to their GPU (bumpgate) and AMD is not responsible for anything, right?

That is okay, as long as you will go by your rules. It isn't Keys you stated AMD isn't going to warranty overclock 6990, AMD did.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/carl/amds-official-statement-over-hd6990-warranty/

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...6990/Pages/amd-radeon-hd-6990-overview.aspx#4


Hey if it is okay for you, then it is okay. Seriously, I OC my Q6600 since day one, and I knew it voids warranties. I even lapped the CPU (hey no warranties anyway.) So what?

The only problem is when those who believe a company is responsible for those who failed to OC.

I'm probably playing Devil's Advocate here or have a bad reading comprehension issue, but where does it state that flipping the switch will void your warranty?

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...6990/Pages/amd-radeon-hd-6990-overview.aspx#4

It gives you instructions on how to flip the switch. It tells you flat out make sure your system is capable of handling the stress flipping the switch creates. It is technically a manufacturer preset, unless the second BIOS is open to manufacturer customs in which I can see why AMD wouldn't over ASUS clock settings.

In the end I just read: flipping this switch will cause strain to your PC, understand what it does, be ready for it, and if you fry components in your PC that isn't our fault. I interpret the overclocking/overvolting portion as "anything you do on top of this second BIOS setting voids your warranty, so don't overclock/overvolt beyond this manufacturer setting."

I could be wrong. I thought it pricesly said - flip this switch and you void your warranty.

 

[notty22]

It explains it voids your warranty in a 'soft' manner. If they did it abruptly, it would raise eyebrows.

Dual-BIOS Support

The AMD Radeon™ HD 6990 graphics card features dual-BIOS capabilities. This feature is controlled by the Unlocking Switch, which toggles between the factory-supported Performance BIOS of 375W (BIOS1), and an Extreme Performance BIOS (BIOS2) that can potentially unlock higher clock speeds and up to 450W of mind-blowing performance!

There is the factory-supported bios and the extreme bios.
The next statement refers to the 450 watt exteme bios and relates it to overclocking.

Caution:

Do not use the 450W setting unless you are familiar with overclocking and are using high-quality system components to ensure maximum system stability. If you encounter system instability or other unexpected system performance while using the 450W setting, return the graphics card to the factory-supported 375W setting, as your system may not be properly equipped to handle the increased demands of the 450W setting.

The final warning states AMD cards should only be run at factory settings.

WARNING: AMD graphics cards are intended to be operated only within their associated specifications and factory settings

edit: Also Apopin a reviewer and poster here , emailed AMD directly and received a answer regarding the yellow sticker. If you run the card in extreme mode you have voided the warranty.
*XfX released a statement , they will support a card with the yellow sticker removed.

 

[WelshBloke]

It explains it voids your warranty in a 'soft' manner. If they did it abruptly, it would raise eyebrows.

There is the factory-supported bios and the extreme bios.
The next statement refers to the 450 watt exteme bios and relates it to overclocking.
The final warning states AMD cards should only be run at factory settings.


edit: Also Apopin a reviewer and poster here , emailed AMD directly and received a answer regarding the yellow sticker. If you run the card in extreme mode you have voided the warranty.

You still haven't explained how your fantasy warranty with AMD matters if your actual warranty is with XFX or whoever.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Some people are completely unable to understand the difference between legalese, and what kind of warranty protection they actually get.

To be crystal clear, AMD is giving you guidelines if you decide to flip the switch and overclock. They fully expect that some people will do this, they did put the switch there remember? Where things differentiate is in the results, the 6990 is designed to handle the extra load, the 590 is not. You want proof of this? Nvidia themselves have stated that unless you decide to water cool your card, don't overclock.

 

[railven]

It explains it voids your warranty in a 'soft' manner. If they did it abruptly, it would raise eyebrows.

There is the factory-supported bios and the extreme bios.
The next statement refers to the 450 watt exteme bios and relates it to overclocking.
The final warning states AMD cards should only be run at factory settings.
edit: Also Apopin a reviewer and poster here , emailed AMD directly and received a answer regarding the yellow sticker. If you run the card in extreme mode you have voided the warranty.
*XfX released a statement , they will support a card with the yellow sticker removed.

Reading some of Apoppin's post he seems to be following my train of thought. There is no precise wording that explicitly states flipping the switch would void your warranty.

Apoppin and IDC talk about the vague wording in this thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2150631&highlight=warranty

From the thread:

It looks like AMD just doesn't want to pay for returned chips - period!

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/carl/amds-official-statement-over-hd6990-warranty/

i have asked Diamond Multimedia to clarify their own warranty on the factory-overclocked No2 BIOS

AMD's own site is still really unclear on this as it says:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...6990/Pages/amd-radeon-hd-6990-overview.aspx#4

This might be open to interpretation as both BIOS positions are "factory settings".

So it seems at the time of that conversation it was still up in the air. XFX probably came out and cleared the murky water by saying they'd cover their cards so their users have no reason to worry.

The plot thickens!

 

[Seero]

Some people are completely unable to understand the difference between legalese, and what kind of warranty protection they actually get.

To be crystal clear, AMD is giving you guidelines if you decide to flip the switch and overclock. They fully expect that some people will do this, they did put the switch there remember? Where things differentiate is in the results, the 6990 is designed to handle the extra load, the 590 is not. You want proof of this? Nvidia themselves have stated that unless you decide to water cool your card, don't overclock.

Some claim that Keys is protecting Nvidia, but I do see many Keys' like people protecting AMD far more harder than Keys.

Back to the point. Yes, 6990's design allows the card to handle more than 375Watt input, thus allowing it to be clocked higher than default compare to 590. If putting more voltage into the card is your cup of tea, then 6990 is your card and referenced 590 is not.

That is not what the rumor is about though.

 

[WelshBloke]

Some claim that Keys is protecting Nvidia, but I do see many Keys' like people protecting AMD far more harder than Keys.

Back to the point. Yes, 6990's design allows the card to handle more than 375Watt input, thus allowing it to be clocked higher than default compare to 590. If putting more voltage into the card is your cup of tea, then 6990 is your card and referenced 590 is not.

That is not what the rumor is about though.

This isnt about protecting AMD, I'd think the same if someone tried to warranty their EVGA card direct to nVidia and got refused.

The manufacturers of the GPUs dont warranty the cards the cardmakers do.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Some claim that Keys is protecting Nvidia, but I do see many Keys' like people protecting AMD far more harder than Keys.

Perhaps. There are fans/defenders of Nvidia and AMD in every forum. But Keys is not just a fan but a paid (at least in some capacity) representative of Nvidia, so automatically that calls into question his motives when it comes to discussing the competition. Believing anything else is foolish.

For example, I would not expect to see an Nvidia or AMD rep writing video card reviews, I don't think anyone would take that review seriously. So when an Nvidia rep opines on the shortcomings of an AMD product, a grain of salt is in order. And that's fine, for example JF-AMD posts in the various forums, and people obviously know where he stands. But Keys is a moderator here, so that IMO creates a questionable environment. This is not a company forum, but an open and hopefully unbiased site where people come for trusted information.

Just my opinion.


This ad hominem attack has been put forth repeatedly for years. It is simply false.

It is needless rhetoric that is inflammatory and nothing short of flamebaiting.

Regardless of whether or not Keysplayr is an employee of Nvidia, and employee of AMD, he could be JHH himself for all we care, in the technical forums we do not make it personal and we do not engage in ad hominem personal attacks.

Please familiarize yourself with the AnandTech Forum Guidelines:

1) No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.

Idontcare
Super Moderator

 

[Seero]

Perhaps. There are fans/defenders of Nvidia and AMD in every forum. But Keys is not just a fan but a paid (at least in some capacity) representative of Nvidia, so automatically that calls into question his motives when it comes to discussing the competition. Believing anything else is foolish.

For example, I would not expect to see an Nvidia or AMD rep writing video card reviews, I don't think anyone would take that review seriously. So when an Nvidia rep opines on the shortcomings of an AMD product, a grain of salt is in order. And that's fine, for example JF-AMD posts in the various forums, and people obviously know where he stands. But Keys is a moderator here, so that IMO creates a questionable environment. This is not a company forum, but an open and hopefully unbiased site where people come for trusted information.

Just my opinion.

How much is he being paid? Do you have proofs that he is being paid for posting?

As far as I know, Keys gets new video card and is required to do a proper review on it. You may argue that Keys' review to the card is biased, but then so are all reviewers as most of them gets video cards for free.

If you spend 2 second to read the signature of keys, it stated that:
the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.

That means, even if Keys talk sh!t about Nvidia, he will still receive cards from Nvidia for reviews.

That is my opinion to your opinion, which is all good as this is a forum. My question is, WHY THE F**K CAN'T KEYS HAVE HIS OPINIONS?

We all spent lots of time in this forums, why do you guys discriminate Keys like that? WHY? Some are fanboy down to their bones, but is fine. Whatever Keys said is however not and deserved to be cursed and attacked? If that is the rule you guys go by, then Keys isn't your enemy. I am.

 

[AnandThenMan]

How much is he being paid? Do you have proofs that he is being paid for posting?

I don't know. As I said in my post, he is being paid aka compensated in some way. He is here to represent Nvidia, can we all agree on that?

As far as I know, Keys gets new video card and is required to do a proper review on it. You may argue that Keys' review to the card is biased, but then so are all reviewers as most of them gets video cards for free.

There is a fundamental difference. Review sites are not officially affiliated with Nvidia, and do not represent them. If a review site shows favoritism to a particular vendor, that is a separate issue.

If you spend 2 second to read the signature of keys, it stated that:
the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.

I am fully aware of his sig.

That means, even if Keys talk sh!t about Nvidia, he will still receive cards from Nvidia for reviews.

Okay? I never questioned that, and honestly I don't care if he gets hardware from Nvidia or not. All I'm saying is an Nvidia representative is not going to be an independent and 100% unbiased source of information. Just as someone like JF-AMD is not someone I would look to for unbiased info regarding Intel. I don't think that expectation is unreasonable, do you? That doesn't make what these reps post useless, quite the opposite, we often get first hand info and support which is very welcome.


This ad hominem attack has been put forth repeatedly for years. It is simply false.

It is needless rhetoric that is inflammatory and nothing short of flamebaiting.

Regardless of whether or not Keysplayr is an employee of Nvidia, and employee of AMD, he could be JHH himself for all we care, in the technical forums we do not make it personal and we do not engage in ad hominem personal attacks.

Please familiarize yourself with the AnandTech Forum Guidelines:

1) No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.

This infraction resulted in this member incurring an automatic 3-day vacation.

Idontcare
Super Moderator

 

[Keysplayr]

I'm sorry. Was there nobody who read and understood the many links Apoppin presented after reviewing his 6990? I know he came here and posted a few things and actual quotes from AMD stating that it wouldn't be warranted because it wasn't considered a factory setting. Anyone remember that? Scratch that. Does anyone remember that differently now that a few weeks have gone by?

AnandthenMan, what is your preference? Judging by your avatar, you may have one, but I could be mistaken.
I mean, it is possible your preference for AMD is stronger than my preference for Nvidia. You don't see an Nvidia logo for my avatar, but you do see my Camaro.

Oh, and can you guys please stop turning this into "how much does he get paid" BS again? You have a problem with me and my opinions bring it up in moderator discussions or personal forum issues, not here in the tech forum.

 

[Phynaz]

If you spend 2 second to read the signature of keys, it stated that:
the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.

That means, even if Keys talk sh!t about Nvidia, he will still receive cards from Nvidia for reviews.

The second Keys fails to say exactly what Nvidia thinks he should he will get cut off.

Even if he denies it, it doesn't matter. The compensation influences his view, it's normal human psychology.

Why do you think sales people give me $1,000 sporting event tickets? It's either to psychologically coerce me, or to reward me for my business.


This ad hominem attack has been put forth repeatedly for years. It is simply false.

It is needless rhetoric that is inflammatory and nothing short of flamebaiting.

Regardless of whether or not Keysplayr is an employee of Nvidia, and employee of AMD, he could be JHH himself for all we care, in the technical forums we do not make it personal and we do not engage in ad hominem personal attacks.

Please familiarize yourself with the AnandTech Forum Guidelines:

1) No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.

Idontcare
Super Moderator

 

[AnandThenMan]

I'm sorry. Was there nobody who read and understood the many links Apoppin presented after reviewing his 6990? I know he came here and posted a few things and actual quotes from AMD stating that it wouldn't be warranted because it wasn't considered a factory setting. Anyone remember that? Scratch that. Does anyone remember that differently now that a few weeks have gone by?

Has there been anyone here that overclocked their hardware, but had the warranty voided as a result? I know in my personal experience this has never happened, AIBs are quite accommodating in my experience, unless you are truly incompetent and obviously damaged the card due to stupidity. They want you as a repeat customer, right?

The issue to me is what is happening when you overclock. I expect crashes, instability, maybe artifacting, driver recovery etc. when I push things too far, not burnt out components. The only time I've physically destroyed stuff from overclocking is when I modified the hardware from stock, which was my fault and I accepted that.

 

[Seero]

The second Keys fails to say exactly what Nvidia thinks he should he will get cut off.

Even if he denies it, it doesn't matter. The compensation influences his view, it's normal human psychology.

Why do you think sales people give me $1,000 sporting event tickets? It's either to psychologically coerce me, or to reward me for my business.

So if Keys is a slave of Nvidia then and therefore you have the rights to step on him whenever you get the chance, is that right?

Keys can decide. He decided to drop his rights as a mod in this forum because of his status, that is what he decided, so a sense of fairless can flow through this forum by sacrifice his rights just so that he can be seen as a normal poster. He did this for all AMD fanboys. What did AMD fanboys do for him in return?

Keys could have hidden his status at any point in time, but he didn't, he chose to tell the truth, he chose to emprint the truth on every single post he made. WHAT THE F**K DOES HE NEED TO DO TO BE TREATED FAIRLY WHILE BEING IN THE FOCUS GROUP! Name it. I dare you!

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm sorry. Was there nobody who read and understood the many links Apoppin presented after reviewing his 6990? I know he came here and posted a few things and actual quotes from AMD stating that it wouldn't be warranted because it wasn't considered a factory setting. Anyone remember that? Scratch that. Does anyone remember that differently now that a few weeks have gone by?

...

Why would AMD warranty an XFX card?

Would nVidia warranty my EVGA one?


Again AMD don't sell cards, so you aren't going to RMA a card to them successfully or not.

 

[Keysplayr]

Why would AMD warranty an XFX card?

Would nVidia warranty my EVGA one?


Again AMD don't sell cards, so you aren't going to RMA a card to them successfully or not.

Ahhh.. Now we (we being the collective) have you. Explain the difference between what you just stated here, and say.......... a laptop with NV's chipset in it. Why not make it a Dell for arguments sake.

 

[Keysplayr]

So Keys is a slave of Nvidia <snip>

Do yourself a favor and don't let it get to you. Edit your posts and try to restore your calm. I know it's all they have when they revert to this "argument" so don't worry about it. I'm fine. but thanks.

 

[Seero]

I don't know. As I said in my post, he is being paid aka compensated in some way. He is here to represent Nvidia, can we all agree on that?

There is a fundamental difference. Review sites are not officially affiliated with Nvidia, and do not represent them. If a review site shows favoritism to a particular vendor, that is a separate issue.

I am fully aware of his sig.

Okay? I never questioned that, and honestly I don't care if he gets hardware from Nvidia or not. All I'm saying is an Nvidia representative is not going to be an independent and 100% unbiased source of information. Just as someone like JF-AMD is not someone I would look to for unbiased info regarding Intel. I don't think that expectation is unreasonable, do you? That doesn't make what these reps post useless, quite the opposite, we often get first hand info and support which is very welcome.

We have Keys that you all believe he is biased, that is fine, he admitted that himself. Treat him as a fanboy then. Why do you need to treat him as a treater of free will? He is indeed doing things under his own free will. I may chose to candy coat all the BS made by Nvidia if they pay me enough. Will you?

Lets go back to the payment. How much do you think Keys deserves by posting here against half of the posters in this forum? 5 cents a post? If you don't hate Keys, and have a dollar spare, donate it to Nvidia or AMD, then pretend Nvidia or AMD paid you 1 dollar to post, then we are all on even grounds. Can we?

 

[WelshBloke]

Ahhh.. Now we (we being the collective) have you.

I'm not sure what that bits supposed to mean, unless you're a member of the Borg and have all my exits covered. Still sounds like a cheesy line from a b-movie though.

Explain the difference between what you just stated here, and say.......... a laptop with NV's chipset in it. Why not make it a Dell for arguments sake.

Why is that at all relevant? Would any of these cards that you are saying AMD wont honour the warranty for actually be warranted by AMD?

 

[insurgent]

WHAT THE F**K DOES HE NEED TO DO TO BE TREATED FAIRLY WHILE BEING IN THE FOCUS GROUP! Name it. I dare you!

Probably nothing, since his association is already known. I will offer a different perspective: most guys here have owned an AMD and Nvidia card, the current status being more people probably get their jollies now using AMD cards. They can switch brands anytime depending on their wants/needs, you can't say Keys has the same luxury.

It's not like this forum has been an AMD "nesting ground" from the start, do you think in the G80 days more people defended the HD2900? I don't think so. Why do you need to get so worked up over this anyway.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Lets go back to the payment. How much do you think Keys deserves by posting here against half of the posters in this forum? 5 cents a post? If you don't hate Keys, and have a dollar spare, donate it to Nvidia or AMD, then pretend Nvidia or AMD paid you 1 dollar to post, then we are all on even grounds. Can we?

What?

I don't know about you, but my "donations" go to the company/products that I like, pretty simple. For a time, I dealt very heavily in Nvidia hardware when it comes to video, in fact at one time I barely touched an ATI card. But the last couple of years, Radeon cards are something I've recommended more often than not. I'm not loyal to any one company, I'm loyal to value, which encompasses many things including reliability, power draw (I'm big on this), and of course owner satisfaction.