[techreport] BenQ's XL2730Z 'FreeSync' monitor reviewed

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AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
126
Not sure that's necessarily true. Depends on what type of fpga and other factors. Without knowing the details, it's likely you could do essentially firmware updates to make changes if needed.
Have you seen any info showing G-Sync modules getting firmware updates?
Surely from the same source as their FCAT gear...
Yep. PCPer is a marketing arm of Nvidia at this point, that is not too strong a statement it is a fact.
 

DiogoDX

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
746
277
136
pcper.com = Nvidia Pressworks

We have to be carefull and not consider only they reviews.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
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And its suppression resulting in Nvidia not needing to fix the same issues, why bother, they are downplayed at will...

Actualy this had much more to do with viral marketing than anything else, Hawai was just too good to be competed only on a price/perf comparison.


As for the article below that s total bs, look like even the graphs were supplied by Nvidia, if not the complete article, besides where are the oscillloscope measurements of Gsync..?.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Dissecting-G-Sync-and-FreeSync-How-Technologies-Differ

Are we supposed to trust this reviewer at face value, that is, measurement for AMD and plain marketing for Nvidia, hey, they cant lie about the possibilities of their implentations..

Actualy he s measuring nothing, just that the panel is limited to 25ms time frame and the corresponding management by Freesync.

Indeed statements like this one marketing Gsync say it all :

As if there was no possible buffering by the GPU, how does it proceed when refreshing using the existing pic..?.

He s actualy downplaying one of AMD advantage wich is that the driver has full control of the screen while in Nvidia "solution" the screen can be out of control, to summarize any update in Gsync management will require an updated module, with previous monitors definitly lacking eventual future improvements.

Is the article accurate? And I thought we were talking about the article on page 1 of this thread.

Most everything they showed in the article, they had talk to AMD about, and they quoted what AMD said they were doing. If you don't like it, you should be upset with AMD. The reality is, PCPer seems to like Freesync more in the long run, even though G-sync has a couple small advantages. (talking about the article this thread was about).

Assuming a purely software solution is better than a mix of software and hardware is up for debate. Time will tell. Why you think they are biased for not saying that software is superior is showing you are biased. Time will tell which is a better path.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,603
8,807
136
Is the article accurate? And I thought we were talking about the article on page 1 of this thread.

Most everything they showed in the article, they had talk to AMD about, and they quoted what AMD said they were doing. If you don't like it, you should be upset with AMD. The reality is, PCPer seems to like Freesync more in the long run, even though G-sync has a couple small advantages. (talking about the article this thread was about).

Assuming a purely software solution is better than a mix of software and hardware is up for debate. Time will tell. Why you think they are biased for not saying that software is superior is showing you are biased. Time will tell which is a better path.

The article in the op is from techreport.com, not pcper.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
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They're complaining about previous coverage from pcper which painted freesync in a more negative light than this latest article does.

There is a difference. Both showed the same flaws, although the monitor review is a different topic. The monitor review is there to show you the quality of the monitor, which has freesync. Pcper's review was strictly about the differences between the two techs. Both showed the same flaws, though the use of the 144hz panel makes the flaw smaller, as when normal v-sync is applied below 40hz, you get increments of 7ms instead of 13ms applied to frames missing a refresh on the 75hz monitor.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
136
There is a difference. Both showed the same flaws, although the monitor review is a different topic. The monitor review is there to show you the quality of the monitor, which has freesync. Pcper's review was strictly about the differences between the two techs. Both showed the same flaws, though the use of the 144hz panel makes the flaw smaller, as when normal v-sync is applied below 40hz, you get increments of 7ms instead of 13ms applied to frames missing a refresh on the 75hz monitor.

And this is where they are biaised because comparing the two techs would require using comparable hardware, but in this case they used Freesync that had a 25ms minimum frame time compared to a Gsync that has 33ms minimum frame time...

As such they also did review only a monitor but they assumed that the difference was due to the tech rather than to the monitors being of different specs from the start, talk of stretching things to get the expected viral outcome.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
And this is where they are biaised because comparing the two techs would require using comparable hardware, but in this case they used Freesync that had a 25ms minimum frame time compared to a Gsync that has 33ms minimum frame time...

As such they also did review only a monitor but they assumed that the difference was due to the tech rather than to the monitors being of different specs from the start, talk of stretching things to get the expected viral outcome.

Or perhaps the 75hz monitor was the first Freesync monitor that was available. It still details the differences well. One handles FPS below the minimum hz threshold nearly perfect, and the other does not.

Why is it such a problem to know the differences? I'm glad I'm aware of them, but to be honest, as I can apply my own thoughts to what was given to me, this is not a big deal to me. I do not play at FPS that low. I will not play at FPS that low. If I did, this would be important to me, as it is, I don't care that much about the differences.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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3,862
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Or perhaps the 75hz monitor was the first Freesync monitor that was available. It still details the differences well. One handles FPS below the minimum hz threshold nearly perfect, and the other does not.

Why is it such a problem to know the differences? I'm glad I'm aware of them, but to be honest, as I can apply my own thoughts to what was given to me, this is not a big deal to me. I do not play at FPS that low. I will not play at FPS that low. If I did, this would be important to me, as it is, I don't care that much about the differences.

It doesnt matter in your case given your own requirements but we re talking of a site that pretend to have a say in buyers decisions.

Their comparison is not scientific in its protocols and as such has no technical value when it comes to compare two techs, certainly a marketing value but in now way it can be claimed as being an accurate review.

Techreport was much more on point since they know that using a different monitor would had yielded different results, so they focused on the monitor review rather than extracting hasardous speculations from a single sample.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
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It doesnt matter in your case given your own requirements but we re talking of a site that pretend to have a say in buyers decisions.

Their comparison is not scientific in its protocols and as such has no technical value when it comes to compare two techs, certainly a marketing value but in now way it can be claimed as being an accurate review.

Techreport was much more on point since they know that using a different monitor would had yielded different results, so they focused on the monitor review rather than extracting hasardous speculations from a single sample.

Since their technical results line up with what AMD specifically says is supposed to happen, why are you so up in arms about it being "hasardous speculations"? What they outline is what AMD says is supposed to happen. From what I read and saw, it wasn't a scientific test, it just outline what the differences are and pointed out the negatives.

You clearly have issues with seeing negatives about a product or brand that means a lot to you.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
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It doesnt matter in your case given your own requirements but we re talking of a site that pretend to have a say in buyers decisions.

Their comparison is not scientific in its protocols and as such has no technical value when it comes to compare two techs, certainly a marketing value but in now way it can be claimed as being an accurate review.

Techreport was much more on point since they know that using a different monitor would had yielded different results, so they focused on the monitor review rather than extracting hasardous speculations from a single sample.

Funny how you suddenly like Tech Report, just a little while ago you said they were biased against AMD and can't be trusted.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
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Funny how you suddenly like Tech Report, just a little while ago you said they were biased against AMD and can't be trusted.

And i m still of this opinion although they were quite neutral on this article, there s a saying here that state that a swallow doesnt make spring happening...
 

therealnickdanger

Senior member
Oct 26, 2005
987
2
0
I thought that the use of the oscilloscope by PCPer was genius, even if they are a marketing arm of NVIDIA. It explains so clearly what is going on. The same effect could have been achieved (with much more effort) by using a high-speed camera. Until I saw that, the behavior of the two technologies beyond their respective refresh ranges was a bit of a mystery. In that specific case - with those two monitors - the advantage of G-Sync was made obvious to me.

While effectively behaving like a movie projector or 120Hz TV, lower frame rate content (24fps film) is shown in multiples (2x, 3x, etc.) of that rate within the confines of refresh rates that appear smooth to the eye (I'm not talking about frame creation or motion interpolation, just simple duplicate frames). It's exactly the response that you want from any display when showing low frame rate content.

IMO, FreeSync is not viable until it can duplicate this behavior.
 

mindbomb

Senior member
May 30, 2013
363
0
0
pcper.com = Nvidia Pressworks

We have to be carefull and not consider only they reviews.

Sometimes a proper critique of a technology is too difficult for reviewers, with some details being too esoteric, and guidance is needed from companies. The freesync monitors did come with press slides from AMD that were meant to inform the reviews too.

Let's not forget that no one even noticed major specs of the gtx 970 were wrong until long after release. The way to prevent situations like that from happening is to invite as much criticism as possible.
 
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AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
504
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Sometimes a proper critique of a technology is too difficult for reviewers, with some details being too esoteric, and guidance is needed from companies.
There is a big difference between guidance and outright parroting company talking points. PCPer uses language very similar to Nvidia marketing speak, plus if you look at the body language of Ryan Shrout in particular he is very receptive and relaxed when talking to Nvidia reps. Contrast that when he talks about AMD tech and AMD reps, his demeanor is quite different.

I don't trust him, and don't trust the site. That is my personal opinion if others feel differently no problem but I would caution people to take several reviews/opinions into consideration and not rely on a single source. And when you do that, PCPer is often the outlier in their overly negative reviews of AMD products.

We sometimes complain about this site or sites like [H] but compared to PCPer the preceding are vastly better IMO at providing quality, non partisan information.
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,712
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Funny how you suddenly like Tech Report, just a little while ago you said they were biased against AMD and can't be trusted.

Very similar to selective hearing, some people only like what they want to read and put the blinders on for everything else.

Reminds me of "scientists" who draw the conclusion before testing, then change the test to get the desired results.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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Funny how you suddenly like Tech Report, just a little while ago you said they were biased against AMD and can't be trusted.

Kinda like when Charlie said, "nVidia wins this round", talking about Kepler. The biggest nVidia fans were posting that like crazy, too.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
And i m still of this opinion although they were quite neutral on this article, there s a saying here that state that a swallow doesnt make spring happening...

In other words, they can be trusted when they agree with your position, but otherwise they are not trustworthy.

Got it!
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
Very similar to selective hearing, some people only like what they want to read and put the blinders on for everything else.

Reminds me of "scientists" who draw the conclusion before testing, then change the test to get the desired results.

If I recall correctly he got banned at Tech Report for trolling, so that could have something to do with his viewpoint.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
136
In other words, they can be trusted when they agree with your position, but otherwise they are not trustworthy.

Got it!

What you didnt got is that they are not unaware of the critics here and there, they made some decent reviews in a not so long past but look like the need for money was pressing to the point that they started trolling their own past scores to please some mysterious CPU manufacturer contributor...

You want a prove?.

I wont insist on this OT but look at thoses two charts, the second should in principle use previous scores for comparisons with new products.





But what happened once Haswell was released.???..

Now do your homework if you can :

http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed/11

http://techreport.com/review/24879/intel-core-i7-4770k-and-4950hq-haswell-processors-reviewed/12
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
The two charts are pretty close to each other. Only the FX-8350 showed a slight decline in the 2nd graph, but the A10 improved about as much as the i7's did. What is so wrong with those? Slightly different setups can explain the 8350's slight decline.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,115
690
126
This is not the thread to try and prove or disprove the trustworthiness of a particular site. Get back on topic, which is, in case you've forgotten, about BenQ's XL2730Z and FreeSync. Note the review outliers and move on.

-Elfear
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,167
3,862
136
In other words, they can be trusted when they agree with your position, but otherwise they are not trustworthy.

To get back on topic hardware.fr said that the Acer they tested is the equivalent of the BenQ, their word is that AMD had to make some compromises when granting the Freesync moniker to monitors that had panels limited to 40 or even 48Hz mini refresh rate while Nvidia did get the manufacturers to use panels that are 30Hz capable.


http://www.hardware.fr/focus/108/freesync-disponible-premiers-ecrans-decoivent.html
 
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