Techspot: Haswell-E vs Dual Xeon (SB-EP)

[NAC]

This is the test I remember:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-Multi-Core-Performance-698/

Note that they used dual 10 core processors and it seems that they tested physical cores - not hyper threading virtual cores. 4k preview is the most challenging and important task for me. According to the benchmarks - up to 10 cores scales rather linearly, could be related to it being all on one of the CPUs? Above 10 cores it continues to go up a bit. But clearly it may be that 6 cores at 4+ghz will be pretty close to 16 cores at 2.6 ghz.

For rendering - I'm rarely time limited, but the ability to leave some cores untouched means I can continue to do other work seamlessly.

 

[NAC]

Hmm... those benchmarks are using a Samsung 850, which has a max sequential read of 550 MBps. I wonder how much the numbers would change if you used a SSD with M2 interface, like a Samsung SAMSUNG SM951, with a max sequential read of 2150 MBps.

Sigh. I'm getting the upgrade bug ALREADY!

 

[NAC]

getting back to that test:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-Multi-Core-Performance-698/

It looks like they used a single hard drive for both reading the media and saving the encoding file. I think that is a no-no. Even if it is a fast SSD, it needs to alternate between reading the media and writing to a different file - all of which are large sequential reads - IF you have two different drives. There are a bunch of benchmarks I'd love to know the answer to and I could test: number of cores, amount of memory, and different drives - SSD vs. 7200 rpm HD vs 5900 rpm HD. And I may want to splurge on a superfast Samsung SM951 and see how that does.

 

[mustek550]

What benchmarks have you seen indicating that? I thought I've seen benchmarks to the reverse - that it will use up the cores. Regardless, my new rig is on the way so I can benchmark it myself and will let you know.

This group seams to do some pretty thorough testing. There are many other benchmarks and articles on the site if you poke around.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-Multi-Core-Performance-698/

 

[tenks]

I made a post on the adobe forums and they confirmed Premiere doesn't scale well past 8 threads/cores. Here are some great benchmarks out that show its efficiency past 4 threads and its in the 90% or less after each additional core,with the average much worse. I also linked a youtube video of a a guy who tests the dual e5 setup in premiere, and 2 e5s were just as fast a single e5 or a 4670k, which also indicates, past 8 threads there is minimal gain. At least in premiere. not hating by any means, just regurgitating what I've learned in the past week.


https://youtu.be/6b-01q09bLU?t=3m50s

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-Multi-Core-Performance-698/


"We are going to be honest - the results of our testing did not at all line up with what we expected. If you look around the web for high-end Premiere Pro workstations you will find that the majority of them are based around dual Xeon motherboards and CPUs. Similarly, if you search for "how many cores does Premiere use" you will find forum thread after forum thread saying "as many as you can give it!". That is somewhat true - Windows reported all the CPU cores as being under 90+% load - but our testing showed that Premiere Pro was not able to effectively use all of those cores.

To summarize our encoding results, here is the parallel efficiency we saw for each of our encoding tasks:
Encoding settings Parallel Efficiency
(higher is better - 100% is perfect)
1080p MPEG-2 (simple timeline) 90% (35% after 4 cores)
1080p MPEG-2 (complex timeline) 96% (25% after 8 cores)
1080p H.264 (simple timeline) 98% (0% after CPU1)
1080p H.264 (complex timeline) 92% (0% after CPU1)
4K to 1080p H.264 (simple timeline) 93% (65% after 6 cores)
4K to 1080p H.264 (complex timeline) 99% (50% after 6 cores)
4K H.264 (simple timeline) 92% (40% after 5 cores)
4K H.264 (complex timeline) 97% (40% after 5 cores)"

 

[NAC]

Thanks. I don't think you're hating or anything bad. I am a little discouraged, although I do think I read the article prior to buying and I may have discounted it some in the back of my mind. I am a bit appeased because the 4K Preview generation benefited the most by more cores, and that is basically most important to me. Also, I'm hopeful that in the 5 or so years I use the PC, Adobe and Windows may get better at handling more cores. I'm surprised premiere can't just recognize the number of cores and create 2+ processes to render different sections of the timeline and then stitch together.

As the article states - I do wonder why high end editing stations have two CPUs if Premiere can't handle them.

And it looks like SSD throughput should not be the culprit unless you are using very high bandwidth raw) footage. My 100 Mbps footage = 12.5 MBps, which is 1/44 of the theoretical 550 MBps of a decent SSD like the 850.

Also, I've seen benchmarks that Blender on Linux handled dual Xeon processors much better than Windows does. Like twice as fast. This was supposed to be on the same benchmark file. Either something else was amiss, or perhaps Windows is a bottleneck for all those cores. Which may be one reason why lots of creative work is done on Macs.

Anyway, when I find the time and inclination I'll benchmark my dual Xeon rig. For now I'm still just waiting for the parts.

 

[tenks]

Thanks. I don't think you're hating or anything bad. I am a little discouraged, although I do think I read the article prior to buying and I may have discounted it some in the back of my mind. I am a bit appeased because the 4K Preview generation benefited the most by more cores, and that is basically most important to me. Also, I'm hopeful that in the 5 or so years I use the PC, Adobe and Windows may get better at handling more cores. I'm surprised premiere can't just recognize the number of cores and create 2+ processes to render different sections of the timeline and then stitch together.

As the article states - I do wonder why high end editing stations have two CPUs if Premiere can't handle them.

And it looks like SSD throughput should not be the culprit unless you are using very high bandwidth raw) footage. My 100 Mbps footage = 12.5 MBps, which is 1/44 of the theoretical 550 MBps of a decent SSD like the 850.

Also, I've seen benchmarks that Blender on Linux handled dual Xeon processors much better than Windows does. Like twice as fast. This was supposed to be on the same benchmark file. Either something else was amiss, or perhaps Windows is a bottleneck for all those cores. Which may be one reason why lots of creative work is done on Macs.

Anyway, when I find the time and inclination I'll benchmark my dual Xeon rig. For now I'm still just waiting for the parts.

Cool beans man. I cant wait for you to get all your stuff up and running.


PS. Newegg has the dual board back in stock again...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157352

 

[jhu]

Cool beans man. I cant wait for you to get all your stuff up and running.


PS. Newegg has the dual board back in stock again...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157352

Tempting, but where do I put this thing?

 

[nitromullet]

Tempting, but where do I put this thing?

Phanteks Enthoo Pro would be my choice.

 

[jhu]

Cool beans man. I cant wait for you to get all your stuff up and running.


PS. Newegg has the dual board back in stock again...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157352

Out of stock already. I think I'll wait for the flood of Haswell Xeons instead.

 

[nitromullet]

The ASRock EP2C602 is back in stock at newegg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157352

I found this Asus Z9PA-D8 which might be worth considering as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331770679836

The Asus Z9PA-D8 is more expensive, but it will fit in most ATX cases which would save the cost of having to pick up an E-ATX/SSI EEB case. I say "most ATX cases" because the ATX spec is 12" x 9.6", and the Z9PA-D8 is 12" x 10". The screws will line up with the ATX spec placement, but there will be .4" of overhang at the front.

It also has two USB 3.0 port in addition to the USB 2.0 ports.

 

[jhu]

The ASRock EP2C602 is back in stock at newegg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157352

I found this Asus Z9PA-D8 which might be worth considering as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331770679836

The Asus Z9PA-D8 is more expensive, but it will fit in most ATX cases which would save the cost of having to pick up an E-ATX/SSI EEB case. I say "most ATX cases" because the ATX spec is 12" x 9.6", and the Z9PA-D8 is 12" x 10". The screws will line up with the ATX spec placement, but there will be .4" of overhang at the front.

It also has two USB 3.0 port in addition to the USB 2.0 ports.

Ugh,why did I do this? Just bought the mainboard and a case…

 

[nitromullet]

Ugh,why did I do this? Just bought the mainboard and a case…

What did you get?

 

[jhu]

What did you get?

I got the mainboard and case you linked to. What kind of cooler and memory should I get?

 

[nitromullet]

I haven't researched the RAM, but I imagine most DDR3 1600 RAM would work.

As far as the cooling goes, I've seen a few builds on youtube using the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO. Seems to be a good, cheap cooler.

 

[jhu]

I haven't researched the RAM, but I imagine most DDR3 1600 RAM would work.

As far as the cooling goes, I've seen a few builds on youtube using the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO. Seems to be a good, cheap cooler.

Is ECC RAM necessary?

 

[nitromullet]

http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=EP2C602#Specifications

System Memory
Capacity - 8x 240-pin DDR3 DIMM slots
- Support up to 256GB DDR3 R/LR DIMM ; 64GB ECC/non-ECC unbuffered UDIMM
Type - Quad Channel DDR3 memory technology
- Supports DDR3 1866/1600/1333/1066 R/LR ECC and UDIMM
Voltage - 1.5V, 1.35V

 

[jhu]

Well, just ordered everything else: memory, CPU coolers, power supply. Hopefully everything works!

 

[tenks]

ECC ram isn't necessary. Get 1866 if you can, that board can support it.

I was looking at that board too but at that price I'd rather invest in a brand new x99 board. Also keep in mind, that board has no on-board audio, so you have to invest in a sound card too. Another reason why I didn't go for it, $$ just kept adding up.

 

[jhu]

I plan on having this thing sit in the basement headless.

 

[NAC]

So my case came today: Fractal Design Define XL R2. It is quite a bit bigger than my LIAN LI First Knight Series PC-K9, and has more space for drives and fans. But the biggest difference is: the Fractal case weighs a ton. I love it, all that mass should be much quieter. I mean really heavy. The two AIO water coolers, a DVD burner and the 16*4 ram. also arrived. I choose ECC because it was much cheaper - $80 for 64 gigs, and from what I understand memory speed has only a tiny impact on performance. (uh... knock on wood until someone in this thread proves me wrong again And I got 16 sticks because it is cheap and in case one goes bad, I still have 32 gigs of ram and 7 spares.

Tenks - I found a thread on the adobe hardware forum that sounds like it may be by you. I'm still a little distressed that Adobe Premiere wont take full advantage of all the cores. But the proof is in the pudding - once I start using it I'll see how it performs. I've also been researching how to setup the cache and preview folders on different drives, so I think a couple SSDs in raid zero are in my future - perhaps around Christmas they will be $50 each for 240 gigs.

I decided to also get a GTX960 so I can sell my old PC in it's entirety. I even have a couple monitors in the attic I'll include. I think I should fetch a nice amount on Craigslist.

Looks like the rest of the components will be here by Sat, just not sure about Windows 7 Pro.

 

[tenks]

So my case came today: Fractal Design Define XL R2. It is quite a bit bigger than my LIAN LI First Knight Series PC-K9, and has more space for drives and fans. But the biggest difference is: the Fractal case weighs a ton. I love it, all that mass should be much quieter. I mean really heavy. The two AIO water coolers, a DVD burner and the 16*4 ram. also arrived. I choose ECC because it was much cheaper - $80 for 64 gigs, and from what I understand memory speed has only a tiny impact on performance. (uh... knock on wood until someone in this thread proves me wrong again And I got 16 sticks because it is cheap and in case one goes bad, I still have 32 gigs of ram and 7 spares.

Tenks - I found a thread on the adobe hardware forum that sounds like it may be by you. I'm still a little distressed that Adobe Premiere wont take full advantage of all the cores. But the proof is in the pudding - once I start using it I'll see how it performs. I've also been researching how to setup the cache and preview folders on different drives, so I think a couple SSDs in raid zero are in my future - perhaps around Christmas they will be $50 each for 240 gigs.

I decided to also get a GTX960 so I can sell my old PC in it's entirety. I even have a couple monitors in the attic I'll include. I think I should fetch a nice amount on Craigslist.

Looks like the rest of the components will be here by Sat, just not sure about Windows 7 Pro.

Nice!! I'm really stoked for you and kinda living vicariously through you, haha. The only reason why I wanted faster ram was for things outside of Adobe stuff/productivity/whenever i game/future proofing etc. I tend to make my systems last minimum 4 years, usually 5-6. Which was also a reason why it was hard to invest in 4 year old hardware, for my own personal scenario and habits. I keep seeing how SB cores are still holding up amazingly well but like I mentioned, I'm more attracted to the entire platform at this point now that I learned I don't need as many cores as I thought I did. (And I agree, it is distressing...Haha you probably found my thread, I'm Jason.) I still wake up everyday and debate with myself...lol..BD-E prices aren't looking good either...sigh

Anyway, yea the disk setup and videocard help out more than cores once you're past 4/8 threads. 960 is a great card, was looking at that myself too, but again with new stuff right around the corner I decided to hold off. I'm sure you came across this in your research but try to have a separate drive for media, media cache, previews and exports. You can double some of them up if you have to, as long as the I/O is split up a little bit.

Edit: In case you're curious, with all other parts being the same in both builds, the only difference being the CPU, motherboard and DDR3 vs DDR4.. I'm looking at:

8core e5-2670 build: $785

6core i7-6800K build: $1230

$445 difference...Mainly all from the CPU..I'm still flip-flopping..Would love to see final BW-E prices ASAP

 

[nitromullet]

I think I might have a line on a Dell Precision T5600 workstation for cheap. I don't think Dell originally offered these with e5-2670's, but I've seen e5-2670 equipped ones for sale in the used market so I assume they should work.

 

[jhu]

Just got the motherboard and case. Still waiting for the other items to arrive. I hope none of these things is DOA. That would really be annoying.

 

[NAC]

So I got all the parts and built the PC. But, some complications:

First, the 140mm radiator of the H90 doesn't fit on the back 140mm fan mount. The radiator is quite a bit bigger than a fan, so it wont fit there. Solution - take my 120mm AIO radiator from my old PC. Take an old HSF I still have from my PC before that for the PC I'll be selling. I'll return the H90.

Next complication: my Seasonic 520 watt power supply doesn't have a second 8 pin connector for the second CPU. I have spent the last hour looking over the supply, thinking I'm going crazy. The specs on their website, as well as a Johnny Guru review say that the power supply has two EPS 8 pin plugs, but mine clearly does not. I hope I'm not delirious from being tired and it magically appears in the morning. I wrote Seasonic about this - it'll suck if I have to buy a new power supply.

Anyway, with the single 8 ETX plug installed, I powered on the PC. It went to bios without a problem, and only recognized the single CPU. I'll have to see how I power the second CPU. I think for now I'll try to proceed with my build with the single CPU. I'll try to install windows soon.

When I first powered on, all fans are at top speed and it was WAY louder than my old PC. I was able to lower the fans in bios, but not for CPU 2 since it is not recognized. So it still is pretty loud. Plus in bios the GPU fans were on. I hope that when it is all set the PC will be quieter than my current one.