Ted Cruz cooks bacon

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lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
That's easy to figure out. Have a bunch of guys with firearms bunch up and take a group portrait.

Look at how each one is posing with their weapon. Body language will tell you all need to know in reference to what you're wondering about.

What a brilliant idea! Thank you very much.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,100
38,662
136
My apologies, I ran off into the sticks to chase trout and deer stand locations. Left all things internet at home, naturally. So what do we have here? Oh my.

It's not often I'm addressed with posts so rife with faulty assumptions and such impressive projecting, wow!

Actually, the source of much of this he-man nonsense are the very training centers you allude to. A generation of police officers, having been trained on the 'shoot first ask questions later' method have not worked out all that well now has it.

We're talking home defense here genius, focus please. I do like how you are now trying to liken what I said earlier to the issue of illegal and excessive force by police tho, ha! If you want to know what I think of it, ask me, or go search for a thread regarding the topics - chances are I've posted within at least once. Call me weird but I'd appreciate you actually hearing my opinions before trying to dispute them. Until then, I'll thank you to quit the false attribution and cowardly insinuations.

Anyway, the reason I mentioned that respected institution was because it disseminates the real world, combat tested knowledge you refereed to as being the legitimate article. Here's a bit of research even you should be able to handle. Google Clint Smith, then tell us all exactly what it is that indicates he is the "tactical tard" type you seem to have an ax to grind with. I'm not sure where you and others got this notion that combat experience from an instructor isn't worth much either, so odd.

You strike me as someone who isn't that familiar with firearms, their use, and security (which I'm basing on your previous posts, btw). And that's fine, to each is own, but what I take issue with (in addition to you pretending like you have the faintest idea who you are talking to) is in your pursuit of these he-man types, you are essentially doubling down on the very Hollywood crap you appear to be condemning - in this case the shotgun rack sound. One more time since I suspect you missed it:

"I'm not saying the sound of a racked shell can't unsettle people, I'm saying don't do an intruder any favors."

For someone so at ease using the term "life and death situation," you sure seem naive regarding the process that leads to that situation wrt to shotguns and tactics, to the point you smack of the very thing you claim to resent. Grats.

For home defense a shotgun is your best bet though they do tend to be longer and less maneuverable than a handgun.

I guess in your haste to start a pissing match, you failed to notice the first thing I did in this thread was agree on the merits of a shotgun for home defense. Strange.

Shooting the BG at first sight might appeal to the mindset you preach but what if it's your neighbors kid who entered your home by mistake while drunk -- this has happened and the homeowner, living by the dictum you prefer, killed the kid.


Where exactly did I advocate shooting the bad guy at first sight? You are acting like someone just advocated "recon by fire" when that just isn't the case. You have no idea what my personal take is on the issue simply because I haven't posted it. The "what if" game? Seriously? If you want to flail away with hypothetical we can do that, but frankly there's so many options for me to illustrate your lack of understanding here with my own examples all it will do is detract away from the very simple concept I posted that you take exception to. What if the BG has a gun and you just let him know where you are? What if the BG isn't alone? What if he had been fooled by someone racking an empty gun in the past, this time intent on it not happening again? What if what if what if... see where I'm going with this? Although, interesting note here: your example was in the news not too long ago, I'm sure I can find the link if I looked for it. IIRC, the neighbors kid who broke in didn't get the sound of the slide racking, he got a full fledged blast of a 12 gauge into the floor as a warning... and was subsequently killed by the home owner's second shot when the warning didn't work. So, you were saying? Sometimes shit just happens, all we can do is enact precautions so that it doesn't, or is at least much less likely to occur.

You know, like locking your fucking doors. Being a parent and not having morons for kids, whatever.


You avoided comment on the points I made so I'll directly ask you -- if someone enters your home do you shoot them without uttering a word or asking for him to identify himself?


Yeah, I do that with people whom I suspect of not knowing what they are talking about. Sorry? Good to see you're getting the hang of the 'ask first, then judge' technique, looks like progress to me.

I've lived in a variety of locales, some a lot more dangerous than the mountains of Vermont. I've had neighbors victimized by burglars and even one shot dead on the sidewalk 60ft from my house when I lived within the Baltimore beltway. I'm sure that you and others envision some perpetually scared guy just bristling with modded out weaponry, but the truth is I think the best protection is the 130lb Anatolian Shepard that lives with my family. Short of ringing my house with a enclosure full of geese I can't think of a better home security system. A stranger wouldn't be able to simply walk into my house, and the puppy brute squad just doesn't alert and corner family members.


Again, internet touch guys, whether they've bought the doctrine from defense schools or not, don't fare well in court when things go south...

Nebor already addressed this, so I guess consider this me being in complete agreement on you needing to update your understanding of laws regarding home defense. How does it make you feel to know these reprehensible defense schools of yours actually spend a lot of time discussing current laws regarding the subject matter?

I'm starting to think the e-tough guys are less annoying than the e-legal scholars or the anti-gun zealots. And I say that as someone who can't stand all the zombie shit, the frothy prepping mentality, or idiots who open carry and get off on confrontation.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,100
38,662
136
With all due respect, seriously, if you've had zero experience ever firing a weapon in anger, with your life on the line in real time, don't you think that, more than most, you fit the definition of a keyboard commando?


I think you've misconstrued the meaning of the response you are referring to. I was referring to the bravado of the statement which, combined with a rather idealistic view on home defense, just glistened with delicious irony given he's getting uppity about the shit talking e-SWAT members. Sorry if you somehow took it as a synopsis on my experience or a view on the value of instruction from combat veterans. I actually consider it immature and in poor taste to relish the times one has to apply force. Just means diplomacy has failed, right? If anyone wants to compare range time or talk ammo collections and trade let me know though.

Sorry, man, as I'm allowing myself to get sucked into this unwinnable debate and probably unnecessarily personally slagging you in the process.


No worries, I don't feel slighted in the least. It usually takes a lot more than baseless assumptions from strangers or a simple misunderstanding to rile me. No harm, no foul Perk.

It's just that I truly don't understand how or why so many folks here, who, demographically speaking, probably live in fairly damn safe suburban neighborhoods, keep an elaborate arsenal and obsess over the highly unlikely prospect of some Hollywood Super Villains storming into their homes.

I don't find that view unreasonable at all, so long as you keep in mind that it simple doesn't apply to everyone. My arsenal is fairly mundane, mostly focused on hunting in the North Woods and Oregon, and came into my possession by either practical need or inheritance when my father passed away. I detest the Hollywood-esque excesses and image regarding all this too, preachin to the choir my man - that's why I home in on it when I see it... like someone advocating a shotgun myth that could likely get you killed in a real life-or-death situation.


Finally, I wish to address your "no body count, then don't post" rhetorical comment. I do feel that those who have faced real life danger are kind of inoculated against falling down the rabbit hole of media-hyped "danger."

No that was 'firstly,' actually, and I replied to it above.


My advice?

Don't live in fear.

That's a shame Perk, I never would have figured you for a 'if you own guns then you live in fear!' type.


And get a better hobby.

It's not just beauty that's within the eye of the beholder, there's also merit. In short, no.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,281
9,365
146
I think you've misconstrued the meaning of the response you are referring to.

[...]

In short, no.

Fair enough, good sir. As I was saying by pm to another poster I like who was bitching about the "shit hole" of P&N, each one of us has only a part of the truth, and our differing parts of the overall truth, while they can seem on the surface to be in fundamental opposition, don't necessarily negate each other.

What gets lost real fast in the fevered rhetoric of P&N is the sanity of some middle ground.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Should have used an old MG42, but that would be Un-Merican.

What next, wrapping a side of beef around a 16" navel gun and cooking steaks ?

I guess you could use a F35 in hover mode a few seconds, you would have found a use for it instead of just melting the runway.

 
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Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
4,000
2
0
My apologies, I ran off into the sticks to chase trout and deer stand locations. Left all things internet at home, naturally. So what do we have here? Oh my.

It's not often I'm addressed with posts so rife with faulty assumptions and such impressive projecting, wow!



We're talking home defense here genius, focus please. I do like how you are now trying to liken what I said earlier to the issue of illegal and excessive force by police tho, ha! If you want to know what I think of it, ask me, or go search for a thread regarding the topics - chances are I've posted within at least once. Call me weird but I'd appreciate you actually hearing my opinions before trying to dispute them. Until then, I'll thank you to quit the false attribution and cowardly insinuations.

Anyway, the reason I mentioned that respected institution was because it disseminates the real world, combat tested knowledge you refereed to as being the legitimate article. Here's a bit of research even you should be able to handle. Google Clint Smith, then tell us all exactly what it is that indicates he is the "tactical tard" type you seem to have an ax to grind with. I'm not sure where you and others got this notion that combat experience from an instructor isn't worth much either, so odd.

You strike me as someone who isn't that familiar with firearms, their use, and security (which I'm basing on your previous posts, btw). And that's fine, to each is own, but what I take issue with (in addition to you pretending like you have the faintest idea who you are talking to) is in your pursuit of these he-man types, you are essentially doubling down on the very Hollywood crap you appear to be condemning - in this case the shotgun rack sound. One more time since I suspect you missed it:

"I'm not saying the sound of a racked shell can't unsettle people, I'm saying don't do an intruder any favors."

For someone so at ease using the term "life and death situation," you sure seem naive regarding the process that leads to that situation wrt to shotguns and tactics, to the point you smack of the very thing you claim to resent. Grats.



I guess in your haste to start a pissing match, you failed to notice the first thing I did in this thread was agree on the merits of a shotgun for home defense. Strange.




Where exactly did I advocate shooting the bad guy at first sight? You are acting like someone just advocated "recon by fire" when that just isn't the case. You have no idea what my personal take is on the issue simply because I haven't posted it. The "what if" game? Seriously? If you want to flail away with hypothetical we can do that, but frankly there's so many options for me to illustrate your lack of understanding here with my own examples all it will do is detract away from the very simple concept I posted that you take exception to. What if the BG has a gun and you just let him know where you are? What if the BG isn't alone? What if he had been fooled by someone racking an empty gun in the past, this time intent on it not happening again? What if what if what if... see where I'm going with this? Although, interesting note here: your example was in the news not too long ago, I'm sure I can find the link if I looked for it. IIRC, the neighbors kid who broke in didn't get the sound of the slide racking, he got a full fledged blast of a 12 gauge into the floor as a warning... and was subsequently killed by the home owner's second shot when the warning didn't work. So, you were saying? Sometimes shit just happens, all we can do is enact precautions so that it doesn't, or is at least much less likely to occur.

You know, like locking your fucking doors. Being a parent and not having morons for kids, whatever.





Yeah, I do that with people whom I suspect of not knowing what they are talking about. Sorry? Good to see you're getting the hang of the 'ask first, then judge' technique, looks like progress to me.

I've lived in a variety of locales, some a lot more dangerous than the mountains of Vermont. I've had neighbors victimized by burglars and even one shot dead on the sidewalk 60ft from my house when I lived within the Baltimore beltway. I'm sure that you and others envision some perpetually scared guy just bristling with modded out weaponry, but the truth is I think the best protection is the 130lb Anatolian Shepard that lives with my family. Short of ringing my house with a enclosure full of geese I can't think of a better home security system. A stranger wouldn't be able to simply walk into my house, and the puppy brute squad just doesn't alert and corner family members.




Nebor already addressed this, so I guess consider this me being in complete agreement on you needing to update your understanding of laws regarding home defense. How does it make you feel to know these reprehensible defense schools of yours actually spend a lot of time discussing current laws regarding the subject matter?

I'm starting to think the e-tough guys are less annoying than the e-legal scholars or the anti-gun zealots. And I say that as someone who can't stand all the zombie shit, the frothy prepping mentality, or idiots who open carry and get off on confrontation.


I actually have some experience with firearms: own 2 handguns and 2 rifles (AR's). In addition, I reload all my weapons. So, yeah, I know nothing about them...

Glad you have kids that aren't morons, but somehow kids do get killed by parents who mistake them for intruders -- perhaps the parents are morons for shooting before they know who made that sound that woke them up.

So, it's late at night and all the lights are off and you hear a sound that has you reaching for your weapon. How do you know who it is? Do you turn a light on? Do you call out and ask who it is? Or does doing that give you away? If you turn the light on or call out 'who is it' you've given yourself away and at that point it makes little difference if you rack the gun or not. Again, the idea that one must remain hidden and silent may make sense for Seal Team 6 but in the home defense situation where it may be your child or your drunken next door neighbor you have a duty to know who you're dealing with before you fire and that's the question I have for you -- how do you determine who it is at 4AM with the lights out?

And, as I mentioned before, if the weapon is loaded and ready to fire you're NOT going to rack it, but if the weapon is not ready to fire you do not want to face an intruder with a weapon that won't fire -- you may have to rack it -- right?

So, in summary, the question is: how do you determine who the person is that made the noise that woke you? How do you ensure it's not your child? If it's not your child or drunken neighbor do you shoot first or do you tell him to put there hands up? The Castle Doctrine and similar laws may protect you from criminal prosecution, particularly in the south, but even there you may still have to deal with a civil lawsuit and that can get expensive real quick.

In northern states with fewer protections for home owners you may still find yourself at the pointed end of a zealous prosecutor that's looking to make a name for him/her self. Suppose a 15 year old kid your daughter was sneaking around with was shot by you after having sex in your house. You may well win in criminal court but you will likely face a lawsuit. But even if you win all those proceedings you still killed a kid.

As I said, there is a disconnect between the teachings of many defense experts and the cost that following there guidance can cause.


Brian
 

cyclohexane

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2005
2,837
19
81
What makes Ted Cruz terrifying and disgusting is that he's actually well educated, with degrees from Harvard.

Yet he pretends to be dumbass to get the republican vote, shameless and evil at the same time.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
What makes Ted Cruz terrifying and disgusting is that he's actually well educated, with degrees from Harvard.

Yet he pretends to be dumbass to get the republican vote, shameless and evil at the same time.

That is a bit typical though.

Is how it works, you get accepted into an Ivy League college and set for life then from the old families.

After that it's mostly wink wink, nudge nudge.

It's not what you know, but who you know. for centuries of course.
 
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