Teen creates clock, shows teacher who think it's a bomb, teen gets arrested

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michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
I do! I would say there's near zero factual evidence either way as it's almost all circumstantial or inferential on both sides. That has not stopped people from forming very certain opinions in this case though, haha.

and yet you only argue one side.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
A) his clock does not look like a bomb

B) his clock does not look like a bomb

C) his clock does not look like a bomb

D) We know, by their own admission, that the 2 girls intended to create a ruckus and disturb the school. I have yet to see any credible information that points to the boy wanting to do the same in his school. If he did intend that then explain, for example, the purpose of showing the clock to his teacher at the beginning of the school day?

What you've got is a whole mess of people doing their damnedest to demonize this kid and his family with a concerted propaganda effort. If you're comfortable joining in with the collective in this effort, go right ahead. The Borg can always use a new recruit.

A) You're a moron

B) You're a moron

C) You're a moron

D) You're a moron

E) You're still a moron
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
I do! I would say there's near zero factual evidence either way as it's almost all circumstantial or inferential on both sides. That has not stopped people from forming very certain opinions in this case though, haha.

Except, you have formed your opinion as well. You're just a little more than others waiting for the facts to come through confirming your opinions.

There are some who have truly open minds taking in all information. And there are people who refuse to acknowledge pieces of information that do not conclusively disprove their preconceived notions.

You tend to be the latter just like most other people. You are not special.
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Also keep in mind I would be surprised if more than 1% of the users on this forum actually care about this particular incident at all. This is all about picking fights against "the other side" because that's what our egos are conditioned to enjoy.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,383
50,369
136
Except, you have formed your opinion as well. You're just a little more than others waiting for the facts to come through confirming your opinions.

There are some who have truly open minds taking in all information. And there are people who refuse to acknowledge pieces of information that do not conclusively disprove their preconceived notions.

You tend to be the latter just like most other people. You are not special.

Haha, thanks for that analysis. I have formed an opinion that is explicitly based on the available information and I'm open to changing it.

I'm curious though, who are these people with 'truly open minds'? Do you consider yourself one?
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
You should go back and read more carefully. In the same post you argued their response was appropriate for a hoax bomb, which is why they didn't evacuate. You then argued that they lacked the ability to tell if it was a bomb or not. (I have seen no evidence that the arresting officers were familiar with bomb design) Those two positions cannot be both true.
Wrong again. His INTENT is what would make it a hoax bomb, not their interpretation of it. If his INTENT was to fool a layperson then IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY WERE FOOLED OR NOT. His intent is all that was ever suspected here because that alone is what would determine if this is a hoax bomb or not (in the absence of anything undeniable, like fake C4/"EXPLOSIVE!"/TNT markings, of course).

Regardless, you seem to forget that this wasn't one person or a group of people who all think exactly alike. The evacuation would likely have happened before the police arrived if it were going to happen, so their familiarity is completely irrelevant to whether or not the school was evacuated. I would not have faulted them for evacuating, but I'm glad they didn't.

It is indistinguishable for SOME people and obvious for others. Multiple people were involved. How is that so hard to understand?

I said that the evacuation response between a real bomb and a hoax bomb differ only when they know a suspected hoax bomb is not a real bomb. I didn't say that their response to a hoax bomb proved that no one involved ever for a moment thought that it was a real bomb. That isn't a requirement for it to be a hoax. His INTENT is what they have, thus far, failed to prove. His INTENT is what would make this a hoax bomb.

I'm perfectly willing to put myself in the shoes of the principal. If any kid brought me what I thought was intended as a hoax bomb and I KNEW it wasn't a real bomb I would not evacuate. I WOULD still call the cops because a hoax bomb is still a serious offense. Duh. Doesn't matter if they can't ultimately prove that it's a hoax bomb or even if they ultimately prove that it wasn't. If the cops determined that there was enough suspicion to detain for further questioning ("arrest") while they investigate but ultimately do not find any evidence to prove it was a hoax, that's also OK. That's how the process works. What isn't OK is denying him/her access to his/her parents or legal counsel, but we don't know that they actually did this. It sounds to me like the parents were called after the kid asserted his right (the whole family showed up, didn't they?). The police continued asking questions, which is also 100% allowed (he does not have to answer though). There's a reason cliche cop shows and courtroom dramas often depict the lawyer kicking the cops out of the room when the lawyer shows up. Go ahead and insult me for bringing up movies and TV as if there is no way art might imitate reality. I'm ready for it.

It sounds like he asserted two constitutional rights and did not answer with anything other than "it's a clock." Once again, there's nothing legally wrong with that, but now you can't argue that this only happened to him because he was Muslim/Middle-Eastern AND you now have to answer why it fits the explanation you refused to consider. All that ever mattered was his intent. If his intent were to have them assume that it was a bomb OR a hoax bomb, then it *IS* a hoax bomb. PERIOD. Not being forthcoming is evidence of intent because it's exactly what he would do if that were his intent. It doesn't come close to meeting the burden of proof for a conviction, so he wasn't charged.

I have another very relevant world-wise personal experience for you (oh, I bet you hate these). Earlier this Summer I had two teenage girls about Ahmed's age arrested for stealing from me and they invoked the same two rights.

I had 100% irrefutable photographic proof on video, but the police needed to see in her bag and the girls were not allowing it. They had been in trouble enough times to know that they didn't have to let police search their bag without parents/legal council because they were under 18 (supported by The Fifth because minors can't be expected to make reasoned decisions about legal council or self incrimination).

To avoid shoplifting charges, they asserted the same two rights and demanded their parents, knowing that one was a runaway from a group home (no parents to call) and the other was from very far away (would take hours to arrive). We waited HOURS for the parent of one girl to arrive before the police could demand to see inside the bag. Guess where she was taken even though she didn't have her parents? That's right: juvenile detention. Just like Ahmed, she was arrested and taken to juvenile detention on suspicion of a crime without speaking to her parents. These girls were not minorities.

It sounds very much like they took advantage of the same laws, telling the kid not to answer any questions except to say that it's a clock and that he should insist on having them present. As far as we know they called the parents right away and police questioned him while they waited (entirely legal; he doesn't have to answer though).

Remember, us calling you out on bad logic and shitty evidence is not an attack on you or an attempt to troll you. We're just pointing out that your argument is irrational. If you're as objective as you claim to be instead of further convincing yourself of your rightness with each new hole that's poked in your logic, take a step back and consider what people are telling you.

What you're saying isn't making sense.
Please show me where ANY hole has been poked. You have been the one failing to consider anything beyond the bombastic claims that went viral. I have openly considered both and watched as idiots accepts claims as truth and simultaneously demand proof to consider any alternative explanation, even one that fits BETTER.

Investigating and arresting are two totally different things. There was no cause for arrest here, full stop. It was stupidity.
Because you said so. Because they claimed so. You don't know what evidence the school and police have because the family has not allowed it to be released.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
I do! I would say there's near zero factual evidence either way as it's almost all circumstantial or inferential on both sides. That has not stopped people from forming very certain opinions in this case though, haha.
You're right: It hasn't.

Also, you don't seem to understand that evidence can be factual without being proof.

It is a fact that the police claim his answers were not forthcoming, justifying the arrest.
It is a fact that the family claims that this is an example of religious and racial intolerance.

Yes, the claims themselves are facts. Claims versus claims. On their own they may appear useless until you start looking at other facts to see which claims are more supported by our observations.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,383
50,369
136
You're right: It hasn't.

Also, you don't seem to understand that evidence can be factual without being proof.

It is a fact that the police claim his answers were not forthcoming, justifying the arrest.
It is a fact that the family claims that this is an example of religious and racial intolerance.

Yes, the claims themselves are facts. Claims versus claims. On their own they may appear useless until you start looking at other facts to see which claims are more supported by our observations.

Exactly, and our observations give no insight into whether or not his answers justified arrest, because no information has come out about that.

Thanks for helping reinforce my point!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,383
50,369
136
Let's ignore a city official who is in-the-know on this matter! Why? Because we don't agree with the official's political affiliation!

I for one am shocked that a likely defendant in upcoming litigation would put out a comment favorable to their position in that litigation.

How is it that you're so easily able to identify potential ulterior motives in this kid and his family but so unable to identify potential ulterior motives in actions by the city and police? My guess would be for the same reason you just mentioned.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Too bad Obama hasn't invited him to the White House instead.

The White House visit had nothing to do with science or technology, and everything to do with advancing the progressive narrative: everything is bigotry and you need to keep voting for Democrats to stop those monsters.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
29,197
23,350
146
That isn't fair. The kid in your article is genius, literally one in a 100 million. He is a freak of nature, a mental Michael Jordan.
Fair? WTF does that have to do with anything? Trying to make things fair, whatever that means (talk about your moving goal posts) is one of the ills of modern society. The everyone is good enough trophy mentality, is a pox. The exceptional should be celebrated, not the mediocre. That viral media has made it so I even know who this unexceptional twat is, is what is unfair. :awe:
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
That isn't fair. The kid in your article is genuis, literally one in a 100 million. He is a freak of nature, a mental Michael Jordan.

OK, so why hasn't this genius gotten invited to the White House?

Because it doesn't advance the leftist agenda and keep Democrats afraid.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
The mere possibility of a Muslim being discriminated against is now more than enough fodder for the Ministry of Truth. Orwell had our future pegged a long time ago.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,383
50,369
136
OK, so why hasn't this genius gotten invited to the White House?

Because it doesn't advance the leftist agenda and keep Democrats afraid.

Or maybe he's not part of a big news story.

There are in fact victims of racial injustice all over America every day that don't get invited to the White House for the same reason this tinkering genius didn't. They also are not part of big news stories.

It never ceases to amaze me the ability of conservatives to concoct vast conspiracies to enact the 'librul agenda' when common sense is so much easier. As an impartial person who calls out both sides equally, I'm sure you've noticed this tendency too.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
OK, so why hasn't this genius gotten invited to the White House?

Because it doesn't advance the leftist agenda and keep Democrats afraid.

Its a good thing a good little republican follower like yourself is here to spread the word.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Or maybe he's not part of a big news story.

There are in fact victims of racial injustice all over America every day that don't get invited to the White House for the same reason this tinkering genius didn't. They also are not part of big news stories.

It never ceases to amaze me the ability of conservatives to concoct vast conspiracies to enact the 'librul agenda' when common sense is so much easier. As an impartial person who calls out both sides equally, I'm sure you've noticed this tendency too.

And people like Joe the plumber get mocked as the phony victims they are. This is no different, but where you mock Joe you applaud Ahmed, because it supports your narrative.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,502
15,387
136
And people like Joe the plumber get mocked as the phony victims they are. This is no different, but where you mock Joe you applaud Ahmed, because it supports your narrative.

Joe the plumber was lying, there was proof. What proof do you have the Ahmed was (insert whatever it is now that you are accusing him of)?
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
Joe the plumber was lying, there was proof. What proof do you have the Ahmed was (insert whatever it is now that you are accusing him of)?

We do not know.

But the fact that the parents have prevented the school side of the story should raise questions :\
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Joe the plumber was lying, there was proof. What proof do you have the Ahmed was (insert whatever it is now that you are accusing him of)?
1. He didn't build it

2. He is being fed answers

3. He says he wants his clock, claiming cops are preventing him from taking it, says he has to sue to get it. Cops have always said "come get it"

4. Makes all sorts of other claims in public but won't grant school waiver to tell their side

5. Cops haven't released report due to pending litigation.
 
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