Teen Dies After Fall While 'Car Surfing'

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: HumblePie
The only thing this kid that was stupid was getting spooked by the cop. He should have just got the ticket and be alive.

I'm thinking he did something else a bit stupid...

Correct, he could have being doing compound things of stupidity. None of which we know, but can easily guess at with certainty.

Chances he used some sort of grip or mounting device to control himself on top of the car?
Zero

Chances he was wearing protective clothing such as a helmet?
Zero

Chances are he was doing fine until he got spooked by the cop?
100% since he WAS alive until they saw the cop and he fell.

Chances the driver was doing something stupid like swerving or slamming on the brakes while the kid was on top?
unknown. He could have swerved or suddently stopped when he saw the cop BUT the article says it was the kid on top that got spooked and fell and not the driver forcing the kid off. Otherwise, I think the parents might be sueing right about now.


Yes, chances are the kid was doing multiple things that were stupid and led the an ultimate outcome and his demise.

Now, I'm NOT DEFENDING THE KID. He was a moronic tard that got what he deserved. I am defending the idea of what people keep using blanket statements to safe that any form of "car surfing" is unsafe. If that was the case, no one wouldever again mount luggage to the top of their car.

 

[aswedc]

See my post above for my reasoning why they are unrelated.

No reasoning found...other than claiming they are unrelated.

 

[tami]

Originally posted by: pack

Originally posted by: tami
shame. it's truly sad how many teenagers think they will get away with such things. it's completely visible to anyone around them.

worse is when those kids think they can go "subway surfing" on top of the new york city subways. little do they know that when the subway hits a low clearance tunnel, they're gone for. the scarier part is that sometimes their bodies aren't found for a few days since it's still on the roof of the subway.

Really? Ive lived in NYC all my life and never heard of anything anything like that before. Whos actually that retarded?!

they were about 14-15 years old. i think there were 4 or 5 stories about it in the new york post last year.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: HumblePie

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: HumblePie
The only thing this kid that was stupid was getting spooked by the cop. He should have just got the ticket and be alive.

I'm thinking he did something else a bit stupid...

Correct, he could have being doing compound things of stupidity. None of which we know, but can easily guess at with certainty.

Chances he used some sort of grip or mounting device to control himself on top of the car?
Zero

Chances he was wearing protective clothing such as a helmet?
Zero

Chances are he was doing fine until he got spooked by the cop?
100% since he WAS alive until they saw the cop and he fell.

Chances the driver was doing something stupid like swerving or slamming on the brakes while the kid was on top?
unknown. He could have swerved or suddently stopped when he saw the cop BUT the article says it was the kid on top that got spooked and fell and not the driver forcing the kid off. Otherwise, I think the parents might be sueing right about now.


Yes, chances are the kid was doing multiple things that were stupid and led the an ultimate outcome and his demise.

Now, I'm NOT DEFENDING THE KID. He was a moronic tard that got what he deserved. I am defending the idea of what people keep using blanket statements to safe that any form of "car surfing" is unsafe. If that was the case, no one wouldever again mount luggage to the top of their car.

If my luggage falls off my car I get mildly upset.

If my son falls off the top of my car and is killed I would seriously have a difficult time living.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: aswedc
Since so many people quoted I'll reply

< stuff.. >

Car luggage racks are designed to hold luggage. They are tested to "luggage safety" requirements, not "human life safety" requirements. Comparing the two is stupid, at best.

And I see you completely blew off the facts that riding a motorcyle requires a test and show of proficiency in order to obtain your license. Does this "perfectly safe sport" of car surfing have such a regulatory requirement?

 

[tami]

Originally posted by: aswedc

ok so now he wasn't paying attention? but you said he let go. so what is it?

I'll make it nice and simple for you.

His death was a direct result of seeing a police car.

you are an excellent mind reader of the dead. have you been using your ouija board lately?

 

[aswedc]

far greater risk of serious injury or death

No. Like I said before, I have been "car surfing" where the driver intentionally slammed on the breaks. I have been "car surfing" when the driver intentionally swerved around (in parking lot). It would be no different in an emergency situation. At the speed we established, the necessary force to hold on was very easy to handle.

PS: You can stop calling me an idiot and a 2 year old please.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: HumblePie

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: aswedc

ok so now he wasn't paying attention? but you said he let go. so what is it?

I'll make it nice and simple for you.

His death was a direct result of seeing a police car.

i know we are not sopposed to call people names. but you are an idiot.

His death was a direct resutl from doing something dumb such as getting ON TOP of a moving car.

As others have said. when a car swerves momentem will knock you off the car. a sudden stop will make you fall off the car.

I have went from 85+ to zero in seconds safely on my bike. I have swerved around cars when going 60+ safely. heck i have even laid it down going 80 and walked away (thank god for full gear)

No go get on the roof of a car and try any of that. you will NOT stay on. I gurentee that.

but i do agree at slow speeds on a emtpy road with a experianced driver you do cut the risk down. though i dont think even full rideing gear would save the guy.

sure, let me mount some handle bar grips, fasten a strap over my body and wear a helmet while "on top" of a car."

Oh wait, did you know that when you are riding in a convertible car you are technically "on top?" Same with a motorcycle. The difference between a motorcycle is that you have HANDLE BARS for a grip. Guess what you can do if you want to go car surfing "safely?" Mount handle bars. If you are trying to hold on by friction alone, then yes, that is pure stupidity.

Also, the accidents you got into with a motorcycle that you walked away from were because, AND I QUOTE, THANKS GOOD FOR FULL GEAR!!! So if you weren't wearing a helmet, a protective riding jacket, or other forms of protections and something WRONG happened on a motorcycle, what do you think will happen? Oh wait, I used to see that crap every day while working as an intern at a hospital. Major injury, paralisys, or even death. Sorry, motorcycles aren't nearly as safe as people that ride them all the time claim they are. Then again, most things in life aren't always safe. Look at the people in London last week and ask them how safe they feel Subways are now? I bet you a year ago they thougt they were the safest thing in the world to ride to work every day. Then one day, bombs and lotsa deaths and people change their minds radically.

Look, just because an activity is "illegal" doesn't make it inherently BAD or worse then legal activities. Anyone that uses THAT logic should be put up for the Darwin award after they finally off-themselves. You know it's illegal to buy Desert Wine after 7 pm in my state no matter what day it is? Does that make it worse then buying beer until 2 am? How about it's illegal to get 2 scoops of ice cream for a cone on Wednsday? HUH? That's really bad right? You do know those are illegal activities.

You know what's funny, many "legal" activities we do today were once considered "illegal" at one point until an agency of some sort came along at set "standards" and "controls" to turn an illegal activity into a legal one. So stop using that arguement here, it's as moronic as the kid that fell off the roof of the car.

You know, I used to mount my surf board to the roof of my car day in and day out and it never fell off no matter what kind of driving I did. So why can't a human be just as safely secured as my surfboard? Or how about people that mount luggage to the roofs of their cars? God people, use some common sense instead of saying, "car surfing = automatic stupidity."

I've never heard of car surfing being done that way (ie. strapped on, etc.).
The way I've heard of car surfing being done - the way this guy was doing it, the way it was being done in every other case I've heard about (including ones that didn't end in injury) - car surfing = automatic stupidity

The point isn't whether it could be made safe - it isn't safe as it is being done.

 

[aswedc]

And I see you completely blew off the facts that riding a motorcyle requires a test and show of proficiency in order to obtain your license. Does this "perfectly safe sport" of car surfing have such a regulatory requirement?

You may need the government to make sure your actions aren't too stupid to kill yourself. I don't.

OMG I might cut my hand off with this saw. I better go get a permit :roll:

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: aswedc

See my post above for my reasoning why they are unrelated.

No reasoning found...other than claiming they are unrelated.

Well here it is again, I think my reasoning is very clear:

-Motorcycle riders wear clothing and a helmet to protect themselves in an accident.
-They are in control of the vehicle they are riding on.
-The vehicle was actually designed for people to ride on.
-Riding a motorcycle is legal and you must train to do it and possess a valid motorcycle license to ride one.

-Car surfers do not wear protective clothing designed to protect them in the event of a crash.
-Car surfers are not in control of the vehicle they are riding on.
-Car roofs are not designed for people to ride on.
-Car surfing is illegal and there is no training involved.

You have done nothing to prove that these two activities are even remotely similar (other than state that they can both kill you while completely ignoring the fact that one is far far more dangerous than the other). I, on the other hand, have proven that they aren't related.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: aswedc
JulesMaximus:

I will amend the first question:

Can "car surfing" at 5mph, on a luggage rack, strapped in like a piece of luggage be considered relatively safe?

Yes/No

Regarding your last post:

Do people riding motorcycles sometimes die even in "relatively safe" conditions?

You answered yes.

Yes, he's dead. Clearly he was not taking the necessary precautions to be safe.

You just said people could die even when behaving "relatively safely". Then you said since the person in question died he "clearly" could not have been "relatively safe"

Sucks to be trapped by logic doesn't it?

I think you'll find you are wrapping yourself up in a poorly defined argument, not highlighting 'logic'.

 

[aswedc]

The point isn't whether it could be made safe - it isn't safe as it is being done.

I'm NOT arguing whether the kid in question was safe or not. Probably not, but we don't know.

I think the way I do it is perfectly safe, at least no more dangerous than riding a motorcycle, thank you (see previous posts for more information).

 

[aswedc]

You have done nothing to prove that these two activities are even remotely similar (other than state that they can both kill you while completely ignoring the fact that one is far far more dangerous than the other). I, on the other hand, have proven that they aren't related.

Please explain how starting at a very slow speed, increasing slightly, while simulating swerves and sudden stops, with a signaling system to notify the driver of the right speed, is more dangerous?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: aswedc

And I see you completely blew off the facts that riding a motorcyle requires a test and show of proficiency in order to obtain your license. Does this "perfectly safe sport" of car surfing have such a regulatory requirement?

You may need the government to make sure your actions aren't too stupid to kill yourself. I don't.

OMG I might cut my hand off with this saw. I better go get a permit :roll:

no. I need the goverment to make sure YOU are not to stupid and kill me!

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: aswedc

And I see you completely blew off the facts that riding a motorcyle requires a test and show of proficiency in order to obtain your license. Does this "perfectly safe sport" of car surfing have such a regulatory requirement?

You may need the government to make sure your actions aren't too stupid to kill yourself. I don't.

I know you sound more as if you need a 24-hour nanny to watch over you..

Keep on arguing that riding on the roof of a moving car is a perfectly safe and reasonable activity. :laugh:

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: aswedc

The point isn't whether it could be made safe - it isn't safe as it is being done.

I'm NOT arguing whether the kid in question was safe or not. Probably not, but we don't know.

I think the way I do it is perfectly safe, at least no more dangerous than riding a motorcycle, thank you (see previous posts for more information).

We know. He's dead. Stop posting.

 

[shopbruin]

one of my younger sister's friends died after doing the exact same stupid thing. he was in a coma for nearly a year.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: aswedc

You have done nothing to prove that these two activities are even remotely similar (other than state that they can both kill you while completely ignoring the fact that one is far far more dangerous than the other). I, on the other hand, have proven that they aren't related.

Please explain how starting at a very slow speed, increasing slightly, while simulating swerves and sudden stops, with a signaling system to notify the driver of the right speed, is more dangerous?

The fact that you are even advocating this amazes me.

I'm done with this, clearly you are incapable of looking at this objectively. Seriously, if you have any fear of dying or consideration for the people who brought you into this world, and love you, you wouldn't do things like this.

God, I only hope that I can instill enough common sense in my son that he doesn't do stupid crap like this when he is older.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: aswedc

Oh, I see. Now we're putting a greater emphasis on illegal activity on a motorcycle. Nice way to adjust the argument to suit your whacked-out logic.

Ok, lets start at the basics and go from there.

Please indulge me with this yes or no question.

Can "car surfing" at 5mph be considered relatively safe?

No.

 

[zendari]

Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone and another one gone
Another one bites the dust, eh
Hey, I'm gonna get you too
Another one bites the dust

 

[aswedc]

The fact that you are even advocating this amazes me.

I'm done with this, clearly you are incapable of looking at this objectively. Seriously, if you have any fear of dying or consideration for the people who brought you into this world, and love you, you wouldn't do things like this.

God, I only hope that I can instill enough common sense in my son that he doesn't do stupid crap like this when he is older.

Good point to stop. I should really be getting something productive done.

Nothing like a mid day flame war to make work more exciting

Oh and have fun being a mindless corporate drone with your son. Going 5mph on top of a car is soo dangerous! And smoking a pack of cigarettes a day is just faaantastic.

PS. I hope you go the speed limit at all times.

 

[The Green Bean]

WTF? dumb people!!!

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: Armitage
I've never heard of car surfing being done that way (ie. strapped on, etc.).
The way I've heard of car surfing being done - the way this guy was doing it, the way it was being done in every other case I've heard about (including ones that didn't end in injury) - car surfing = automatic stupidity

The point isn't whether it could be made safe - it isn't safe as it is being done.

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Well here it is again, I think my reasoning is very clear:

-Motorcycle riders wear clothing and a helmet to protect themselves in an accident.
-They are in control of the vehicle they are riding on.
-The vehicle was actually designed for people to ride on.
-Riding a motorcycle is legal and you must train to do it and possess a valid motorcycle license to ride one.

-Car surfers do not wear protective clothing designed to protect them in the event of a crash.
-Car surfers are not in control of the vehicle they are riding on.
-Car roofs are not designed for people to ride on.
-Car surfing is illegal and there is no training involved.

You have done nothing to prove that these two activities are even remotely similar (other than state that they can both kill you while completely ignoring the fact that one is far far more dangerous than the other). I, on the other hand, have proven that they aren't related.

INCORRECT!!!! People do car surfing "safely" all the time and I know some people that USE helmets, USE straps, and do it in a parking lot (ie private property) so they can't be arrested for doing it even if they didn't have any safety precautions.


Now, can I clue you in as to why YOU have never heard about car surfers using safety pre-cautions in this manner?

Simple, THEY DO NOT DIE. Ahh... cause they take proper pre-cautions, they minimize the possibility of death to that of riding a motorcycle and doing dognuts around a parking lot. If they don't die, they don't make headlines, and no one knows about it. Instead, all you guys get to read is of all the MORONS that do this kind of activity in a stupid fashion such as the one described in this article. Yes, that kid is a MORON. How many times do I have to repeat that statement? Also, anyone that uses a blanket statement to conclude that since

A) Kid is moron, B) was car surfing at the time of being a moron that C) anyone car surfing must be a moron.

Just because A and B are correct statements does not mean C is a correct one. That is very faulty logic. A and B do not make C.

Awsdec and myself are just trying to point this out to people that you are not making rationale decisions. Look at "professional" dare devils like Evil Kanevil (sp?). He does things for a JOB which would be considered HIGHLY illegal for anyone else to do. So how does he get away with it doing it FOR YEARS? He takes proper pre-cautions, does it on private property, and minimizes all chances for the possibility of death. Same thing can be said for ANY dangerous activity.

Look, I didn't start out surfing REAL waves by trying to grab the first 20 foot wave I ever saw without ever riding a surfboard before. That is INSANE. I started out small and I practiced. I learned the board, safety precautions I could take, and learned how to minimize my risk for injury and possible death. Still, no matter HOW much control I had and how many precautions I took, surfing a 20 foot wave is a dangerous sport. Heck, I've KNOWN ex-pro surfers that did some of the craziest crap in the world and one day wipe out on a little 3 foot wave and DIE because they hit a reef underneath. That just happens.

Those that want to argue, luggage racks are designed for "luggage" and not "humans" need to think stuff through. Luggage racks are designed to carry OBJECTS on the roof of the car under the size/weight capacity they are made for. If a human fits within that size and weight capacity then why the hell can't a human ride on it? A human is an object right? Don't let irrational thinking cloud logical though here. Yes, the consequences are more dire if a human falls off then a piece of luggage but as far as safety pre-cautions and the ability for a luggage rack to hold a human safely has zero bearing on the after consequences if something goes wrong.

Look, did you know rollercoasters were originally implemented after people rode in MINING CARTS that were designed to haul materials into and out of a mine? Uhhh.. yah and millions of people ride rollercoasters every day. Despite the original design for a rollercoaster was for basicaly "luggage" and not "people." Get a clue.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: aswedc

The fact that you are even advocating this amazes me.

I'm done with this, clearly you are incapable of looking at this objectively. Seriously, if you have any fear of dying or consideration for the people who brought you into this world, and love you, you wouldn't do things like this.

God, I only hope that I can instill enough common sense in my son that he doesn't do stupid crap like this when he is older.

Good point to stop. I should really be getting something productive done.

Nothing like a mid day flame war to make work more exciting

Oh and have fun being a mindless corporate drone with your son. Going 5mph on top of a car is soo dangerous! And smoking a pack of cigarettes a day is just faaantastic.

PS. I hope you go the speed limit at all times.

Um, I don't smoke and I do somehow manage to have fun in life.

I surf, waves, and I am into cycling. I almost never go the speed limit. :beer:

I would like my son to surf with me when he gets older if it's something he is interested in doing. I do it safely though, I don't paddle out when there is a strong current or huge surf. Head high is about the biggest waves I've ever ridden. At least when you fall off a surfboard you are falling into water and not onto concrete.

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Um, I don't smoke and I do somehow manage to have fun in life.

I surf, waves, and I am into cycling. I almost never go the speed limit. :beer:

I would like my son to surf with me when he gets older if it's something he is interested in doing. I do it safely though, I don't paddle out when there is a strong current or huge surf. Head high is about the biggest waves I've ever ridden. At least when you fall off a surfboard you are falling into water and not onto concrete.

And that last statement tells me right there you haven't any common sense at all. Yah, it's not technically concrete, but hit a reef and tell me later how it feels, assuming you survive. Get plowed by a wave into the ocean floor (trust me a wave has more then enough power to completely submerge and pummel any human body more then 10 feet under water) and tell me that it isn't "concrete." Heck, have a wave plow you into your own board and another rider.

Riding a surf board on a wave can technically be more dangerous the "car surfing" if the car surfer is wearing a helmet, using straps and handle bar grips, having the driver go at safe speeds, and doing it in a well maintained parking lot. Why? because NO ONE wears a helmet when they surf a wave, you can't control the ocean or a wave, you can't control what is underneath you in the water, you can't control creatures that live in the ocean, and you can't control other riders out there with you.

Also, another argument for the "luggage" rack crap people saying can't hold people. Oh I guess the back of a pickup truck can't hold people safely driving down the road either? Yet, it's legal in many states to do so (and illegal in others). The back of a pickup isn't designed for "passengers" either but that doesn't make it completely unsafe for humans either.