Tegra 4 slide leaks

Puppies04

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2011
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Unless this thread is about lego your link isn't working for me either Jimzz
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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You have to copy and paste the link, I saw the slide that way.

*edit - Copy the whole link, go to the pic properties or the link properties. Copy from there.
 

IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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There were rumors that upcoming next generation Tegra or after that from Nvidia will use Kepler derivative SPs. That could explain the dramatic increase in Tegra 4.
 

tviceman

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joshhedge

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Nov 19, 2011
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Based on A6X's GPU performance here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6426/ipad-4-gpu-performance-analyzed-powervr-sgx-554mp4-under-the-hood it is anywhere from 3-5 times faster than Tegra 3 in graphics. If Nvidia really did get a 6 fold increase over Tegra 3, then they will definitely have the go-to mobile chip for everything not apple, and could lay claim to having the fastest mobile graphics (although I'm sure Apple will be updating A6X so that claim could be very short lived).

But then Apples next chip would leap frog them, given that they might be using Rogue, Apple could do so significantly. This is a good improvement from Nvidia theoretically.
 

tviceman

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But then Apples next chip would leap frog them, given that they might be using Rogue, Apple could do so significantly. This is a good improvement from Nvidia theoretically.

While I do think Apple will have the faster mobile GPU with it's next gen iPads, I don't think it will be a "leapfrog" as Apple already made two big updates to it's SoC this year.
 

IntelUser2000

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Oct 14, 2003
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While I do think Apple will have the faster mobile GPU with it's next gen iPads, I don't think it will be a "leapfrog" as Apple already made two big updates to it's SoC this year.

I agree. What will happen is that Apple is now die size limited so unless they want to make a 200mm2+ die SoC(which will even increase physical size) the increase will be more constant.

It's like back in the early CPU or even GPU days where performance increase was dramatic but so was the power use, and die size. That leveled off today because they are at practical limits nowadays.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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I missed one thing on my post last time. Tegra 4 uses a Unified Shader approach while Tegra 3 isn't. That means the increase in performance will probably end up about half the shader unit increase as they are not directly comparable.

Still, it'll be playing with top guys at launch.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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4+1 core? Looks like the same quad Cortex-A9 that is in the Tegra 3, so I don't see performance looking great next to A15, Krait and Swift.
 

firewolfsm

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Oct 16, 2005
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4+1 core? Looks like the same quad Cortex-A9 that is in the Tegra 3, so I don't see performance looking great next to A15, Krait and Swift.

Possible, thought not necessarily true as they switched to a dual channel memory controller; they could have made many updates.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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It's the same 4+1 design but the 4 cores are "eagle" cores, ARM's design name for A15. Performance will be there.

Good to hear! Do we know if the +1 is another A15 downclocked like in the Tegra 3, or are they going properly big.LITTLE and using an A7?
 

MarkLuvsCS

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Jun 13, 2004
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Good to hear! Do we know if the +1 is another A15 downclocked like in the Tegra 3, or are they going properly big.LITTLE and using an A7?

Would using a lower powered / downclocked A15 be a "easier" since they already have to design the A15 core to connect to other parts of the SoC?
 

tviceman

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Good to hear! Do we know if the +1 is another A15 downclocked like in the Tegra 3, or are they going properly big.LITTLE and using an A7?

Would using a lower powered / downclocked A15 be a "easier" since they already have to design the A15 core to connect to other parts of the SoC?

I imagine it will be a smaller, less sophisticated core, otherwise it would just be called a 5 core processor with all 5 cores having the ability to active when fully loaded instead of just 4.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
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I imagine it will be a smaller, less sophisticated core, otherwise it would just be called a 5 core processor with all 5 cores having the ability to active when fully loaded instead of just 4.

Ah, but that's precisely what they did on the Tegra 3. The Tegra 3 is secretly a 5 core Cortex A9, but one of those cores is low clocked and used for power saving in low-CPU-load tasks.
 

tviceman

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Ah, but that's precisely what they did on the Tegra 3. The Tegra 3 is secretly a 5 core Cortex A9, but one of those cores is low clocked and used for power saving in low-CPU-load tasks.

True, but the fifth A9 core was made with different transistors than the other 4 cores, specifically to run at very low power states AND that fifth core would not activate when the other 4 cores were active.

In the end, it doesn't really matter to the end user what arm core they ended up using for the fifth power saving core Tegra 4 will have. It is only to power background tasks and the like when the phone is in an idle state.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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True, but the fifth A9 core was made with different transistors than the other 4 cores, specifically to run at very low power states AND that fifth core would not activate when the other 4 cores were active.

In the end, it doesn't really matter to the end user what arm core they ended up using for the fifth power saving core Tegra 4 will have. It is only to power background tasks and the like when the phone is in an idle state.

To the end user, no. But it matters to NVidia's bottom line, as a smaller core means a smaller die, and lower production costs.
 

Av9114

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Nov 29, 2012
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I don't understand why nvidia insists on quad-core SoCs. Mobile devices need single threaded performance and graphics power more than they need more cores. A15 will be a huge help but I can't help but think that they'd be better off with a 2 + 1, a pure big.little design, or even just a standard dual core design while spending the extra die space on more graphics hardware, which is supposedly their strength anyway.
 

Zodiark1593

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Oct 21, 2012
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I don't understand why nvidia insists on quad-core SoCs. Mobile devices need single threaded performance and graphics power more than they need more cores. A15 will be a huge help but I can't help but think that they'd be better off with a 2 + 1, a pure big.little design, or even just a standard dual core design while spending the extra die space on more graphics hardware, which is supposedly their strength anyway.
In the mobile space, I suppose more small cores makes more sense as opposed to a larger, power hungry core.

Still, are there any apps that will peg out 4 cores?
 

Av9114

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Nov 29, 2012
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In the mobile space, I suppose more small cores makes more sense as opposed to a larger, power hungry core.

Still, are there any apps that will peg out 4 cores?

Maybe a few? As a developer you can't design your software such that you'd need 4 cores because most devices don't have them. So best case is there are a few edge cases where things go from a little slow to totally snappy. I think it's hard to make the case that you'd rather have better performance in those instances than just boost GPU performance. You also have to keep in mind that you can't peg all 4 for very long without destroying battery life anyway.

There may be a legitimate reason for it, but I don't know what it is. Memory bandwidth? Regardless, I still don't know that it's a good way to spend the die area. Also note that they're using TSMC's 28nm HPL process which I think means lower clock speeds.
 

Roland00Address

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Dec 17, 2008
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I don't understand why nvidia insists on quad-core SoCs. Mobile devices need single threaded performance and graphics power more than they need more cores. A15 will be a huge help but I can't help but think that they'd be better off with a 2 + 1, a pure big.little design, or even just a standard dual core design while spending the extra die space on more graphics hardware, which is supposedly their strength anyway.

A large part of the die space of mobile arm cpu is everything else the cpu has...

  • the cache which they are going to have no matter if it is a 2 or 4 core since the
  • cache is shared
  • the gpu
  • the seperate image processor
  • dedicated hd video decode (more power savings than using the gpu)
  • dedicated hd video encode (more power savings than using the gpu)
  • audio processor
  • input/output
  • etc
Here is an image of tegra 3 die size. Note the yellow parts those are the individual cortex a9 cores. Notice there are 5 of time and each individual core takes about 2% of the die space


So going from a 2 core to a 4+1 companion core increased the die space by about 6%.

------------------------------

Furthermore you can scale the mhz speed and the voltage of each individually core separately. It is better to run two cores at 1000 mhz and 400 mhz then it would be to run one core at 1200 mhz from a heat and battery life standpoint.

------------------------------

There is a reason why most manufactures are going for the big little approach. The future cortex a7 processors are extremely small from a die space persepctive from anandtech
ARM claims a single Cortex A7 core will measure only 0.5mm2 on a 28nm process. On an equivalent process node ARM expects customers will be able to implement an A7 in 1/3 - 1/2 the die area of a Cortex A8. As a reference, an A9 core uses about the same (if not a little less) die area as an A8 while an A15 is a bit bigger than both.
1/2 a mm2 that is frickin tiny. When you are dealing with dies that are 80 to 200mm2 putting 4 of these a7 cpus in there for low battery life makes sense when you are only dealing with 2 to 3mm2 of wasted die space.

From a die space scenario it makes sense that samsung is going for a 4 big+ 4 little cores. When your everything else is so much of your die space, yet it is your memory controller, cpu, and gpus that determine performance spending a fractional amount more on your cpu to get much better performance (from battery life and outright performance) makes sense.

Your app may only use 1 or 2 cores, but these devices are becomming more like computers running multiple things at one time with multiple processes as well as the os. Remember you do not need to run the additional cores at 100%
 
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