Tell me why I should vote for Kerry

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: Mill
First off -- I'm not a partisan person, but I do lean toward the Libertarian and Republican side. Why should I vote for Kerry? Bush has benefited me financially whereas Kerry would not. I disagree with Bush on gay marriage and some other social issues, but those do not effect ME personally. Call me insensitive and/or selfish, but I can't see my vote going to do good for someone else. I must also mentioned that I'm pro-gun, and I'm not so sure Kerry isn't going to attempt to pass another AWB. I have NOT liked how Bush has managed our budget, nor have I liked how Iraq was handled. I *did* support the war in Iraq and I still do, but I don't like feeling as if I was lied to.

Does an Assault Weapons Ban affect you personally?

Dubya encourages out-sourcing jobs overseas. Might that affect you personally? Dubya is a warmonger. He offends our allies. The next President will have to deal with Iran and North Korea. Might that affect you personally? He had secret meetings with energy companies. Look at today's fuel prices. Has that affected you personally? Dubya has increased air and water pollution. Might that affect you personally? Are you sure?

Yes the AWB affected me. All the other statements are going to have to be backed up with facts. Quite simply I'm tired of partisan rhetoric from both sides.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: Mill
Not to be mean, but that's really not something I want to discuss here. What I said was true. Under this plan Scenario 15 applies to me.

I know this maybe rather personal, so feel free to keep it to yourself. But the returns on stock market investments generally, if properly invested in a IRA, will not count as income unless you are directly receiving those returns and pocketing them. Are these investments stocks or business investments which you are earning a return on?

They are not in an IRA or the like. They provide income so I paid heavy taxes on them before Bush. You have to understand that even if you sell something to buy another stock you have to pay taxes unless you lost money. Anything that went up was taxable at a higher rate. Dividends are an asskicking as well.

 

[Mill]

I think the biggest thing is that I'm going to need things backed up. If Bush is bad for the environment then I need a specific non-partisan example. I don't really need anymore information on Iraq, but I'd like to see information on the Environment, more stuff about the tax plans, balancing the budget, and the like.

 

[aircooled]

I'm not a gun person, so I don't let that sway my vote.
My investments did better during the Clinton years, so even from a selfish standpoint I like the way things were.
I feel from a military standpoint, our country has incredible generals and advisors that just need to be listened to and I feel that GWB did not heed their advice. I feel that Kerry would.
My child was born using the Medicaid system 13 years ago when I was unemployed (problem pregnancy, both mother and child would have died without proper medical care) so I am okay with supporting social programs (they just need to be policed better so they are not abused).

These are just my experiences and opinions.... Just my 2 cents...

 

[Czar]

Mill,
you could go with the third option and just vote for no candidate, not choosing anyone on the voting bill. Usualy they are discarded though but this should always be a third option if you like none of the candidates.

For example, earlier this summer the gov here tried to pass a bill that banned companies in unrelated busiensses to own over a certain amount in any media company. This went through the althing because they had a ruling majority. Public support showed that only about 10% were for the bill and about 90% against. When laws are passed they go to the president to be signed (one of his duties, is nothing like the president in the US), the president declined to sign it because of public opinion (he is after all the only official directly voted by the people). Well the supporters of the current gov werent too happy about it that that power was used for the first time ever in this case even though they were against the bill.

Then in the presidental elections held a few months later 10-20% of the votes were blank, those people didnt want to show their support for the President and everyone thought that the other candidates were worthless (they were, really really bad )

It sends a good message.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

About your investment's Mill. Look what Forbes says about the Two candidates.

History Favors Kerry, Companies Favors Bush

I found this quote interesting.

Meanwhile, if history is any indicator, a Kerry victory might be good for the stock market.

Since 1927, returns on stocks have been 5% higher under Democratic presidents than under Republican presidents, according to a study by two UCLA finance professors.

"I sell when a Republican comes in and buy when a Democrat comes in," says Jere Glover, who headed the Small Business Administration's Office of Advocacy under President Clinton. "I find that to be a reasonably smart thing to do historically."

The forbes article is quite interesting and I suggest you give it a read.

 

[BDawg]

If you're only concerned about how much money you will make and care nothing about any other issue, Bush is the one you want to vote for. IMHO, this election is bigger than just money.

One day, when your kids have no clean air to breathe, when you're watching over your shoulder for the government, and you're in constant fear of terrorist, I hope you're rich.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Why vote for Kerry?

1) Bush is a liar
2) Bush is not a leader
3) Bush is the most vacationed president ever
4) Bush's career till age 40 was alcoholism. After that, it became religious fanaticism
5) Every business Bush has run has failed. Then bailed out by comapnies with ties to the Saudi royal family. odd
6) When there was no air traffic after 9-11, Bush made it a point to get all of the Bin Laden family memebers out of the US ASAP. Not ONE OF THEM was questioned by authorities. Good job Bush. That was Bush's call by the way.
7) Bush's speaking skills are horrible.
8) Bush stated in debate number one very clearly that his policies are dictated primarily by his beliefs. In other words, not what is best for this country.
9) Invading iraq has strengthened the cause of Muslim extermists.
10) He has done nothing for the economy.
11) The middle class has suffered.
12) The new tax laaws on dividends mean all those multi-millioanires that have nothing but stock get taxed at at 15% rate. Dividends are no longer treated as "normal" taxable income. That's a problem
13) Bush is proud that he is not up on current events (as he stated himself)
14) Bush has a isingle track mind. Go from A->Z, even though at step N, maybe we should modify our plan to get to Z. Stay the course is killing our soldiers.
15) We went into Iraq unprepared. Parents should not be buying body armor for their children!
16) Currently (due mostly to outsourcing according to Warren Buffet), the value of the US dollar is droping 5% annaully. Why has this not been addressed!!!

My question. With Kerry, how can things get worse?
1) he will fix Iraq
2) he will fix the economy
3) The middle class will be saved
4) outsourcing is not going to be a "good thing" under Kerry.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Oh, just go here:
http://www.hermes-press.com/kerry_yes.htm

 

[kage69]

Why should you vote for Kerry? Because a vote for Cheney only bolsters the destructive incompetence that had been screwing us for the last four years, that's why.

 

[kajames]

Originally posted by: chess9
Mill:

I use what can be done for me as the basis for all my votes.

What will the $1 trillion ultimate cost for Iraq do for you?

What will the billions of dollars given to insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies by the medicare bill do for you?

What will a lowering of environmental standards do for you?

What will the outsourcing of jobs do for you?

What will rising interest rates, deficit spending, and declining average family wages do for you?

-Robert

i would love to see Bush win and watch how he's going to pay for the war...cut tax...generate more jobs... Well, if he send more recruits/troops to "Ayraq", that somehow create jobs for some...:beer::wine:

 

[Pliablemoose]

Tell me why I should vote for Kerry

Because he won't set you on fire?

Seriously though, it's been a few years since I read it, but the stock market responds best to a deadlocked government, no new rules or taxes to worry about, because the government isn't going to make very sweeping changes.

So if you're looking strictly financially @ the race, you need to factor in what's going on in the congressional elections too.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: chess9
Would you rather have your university run by its janitor or its President?

Would you watch football if it were played by people with NO athletic talent?

Would you listen to Bach's Cello Suites if I played them?

When it's time for your brain surgery-you know you're overdue-would you mind if a pediatric nurse did the job?

Is COMPETENCY the least bit relevant to you?

If you don't want to vote for Kerry, then write in McCain. Why would anyone vote for imcompetence?

That's my .000278 farthing's worth.

-Robert

Sure competence matters, but so does what the individual can do for me. If the janitor decides to name buildings after me then why not support him?

Now I finally got some ammo suitable for your level:

Bush isn't going to name any buildings after you.

I understand you are just being Moonie, but perhaps you don't understand me. The person who benefits me is who I plan to vote for.

Oh I understood you all right. I think maybe it was you who hasn't the faintest idea about the truth I spoke when I said that you have no idea who you are. Because you don't know you are completely upside down. I heard that from a Magical Horse.

 

[fjord]

Originally posted by: Mill
Call me insensitive and/or selfish, but I can't see my vote going to do good for someone else.

In all seriousness, if this is an accurate description--then your vote should go to yourself as a write in candidate.

Bush is probably philosophicaly closer to where you are--but wether that will benefit you personaly, only you have enough detailed information to make that call.

It may well be that a Kerry presidency would benefit you more, than a Bush second term.

For example, even with tax cuts--a good economy and a strong stock market will easily afford you more wealth.

Under Bush--most investing has been spartan, at best. It doesn't matter if you are Ford motor Co. or just a single income schmo.

I have no doubt, Ford Motor did a hell of a lot better investing (even with substantial tax breaks since Bush)--under Clinton.

The bottom line is --even the wealthiest and most privelaged would have benefited more through a strong economy--the Bush payola to the wealthy--has been a net negative.

You never know ahead of time, who will be helping and who will be hurting you.

 

[aircooled]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Mill
Call me insensitive and/or selfish, but I can't see my vote going to do good for someone else.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A vote that doesn't help the country doesn't help yourself. We are a country as a whole. Look at the big picture. Whether that means you think Bush is the right person or Kerry is the right person, we vote to make the country a better place, which in turns benefits yourself.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Mill
Topic Title: Tell me why I should vote for Kerry
Topic Summary: I've been trying to decide this entire election cycle

It's simple.

Are you happy with the last 4 years and want more of the same or make a change now while we have a chance?

 

[Vic]

I'm a libertarian and a conservative but, RIGHT NOW, if it wasn't for the Democratic Party's positions on the 2nd Amendment and the Bleeding Heart Socialists (aka stupid college kids), I would vote straight Dem ticket.
The Republican party has become the party of lies. They preach small government and fiscal responsibility while raising government spending and jacking the deficit. They preach Christian values while imprisoning their neighbors for their slightest sins and waging war throughout the world. They preach honesty while making corruption the norm in government. They preach freedom while passing legislation to restrict civil liberties.
In other words, they call themselves "conservatives" but are anything but.
A vote for Bush and 4 more years means (1) World War [although I question if that can be stopped now], (2) fiscal disaster, (3) significant reduction of civil liberties, (4) more of the same economically.

 

[lordtyranus]

Originally posted by: gutharius
Before I answer can i ask how bush has "financially" benefitted you? Are you referring to taxes?

The stock market today is considerably higher than the March 01 recession that Bush inherited.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: lordtyranus

Originally posted by: gutharius
Before I answer can i ask how bush has "financially" benefitted you? Are you referring to taxes?

The stock market today is considerably higher than the March 01 recession that Bush inherited.

Hunh?

The Dow Jones is DOWN from when Bush took office.


Jan. 20, 2001 10,587.60 - President Bush takes office.
Oct. 07, 2004 10,170.09 - Today

 

[lordtyranus]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: lordtyranus

Originally posted by: gutharius
Before I answer can i ask how bush has "financially" benefitted you? Are you referring to taxes?

The stock market today is considerably higher than the March 01 recession that Bush inherited.

Hunh?

The Dow Jones is DOWN from when Bush took office.

I realize that. However, the stock market crumbled a mere month and a half after Bush took office, surely you aren't going to blame that on him, are you?

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: Czar
One thing I wonder, has kerry said he will revert the tax cuts or has Bush said he will give more tax cuts?

Yes to the first. Kerry wants to raise taxes to pre "bush tax cut" levels.

I haven't heard if Bush has any more in the works.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: lordtyranus

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: lordtyranus

Originally posted by: gutharius
Before I answer can i ask how bush has "financially" benefitted you? Are you referring to taxes?

The stock market today is considerably higher than the March 01 recession that Bush inherited.

Hunh?

The Dow Jones is DOWN from when Bush took office.

I realize that. However, the stock market crumbled a mere month and a half after Bush took office, surely you aren't going to blame that on him, are you?

It was beginning to go down before he took office. I don't blame the fall on Bush but we're still below those levels.

He's had almost 4 years to effect a change (to the plus side) and his tax cuts have failed.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: JHoNNy1OoO

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: gutharius
Before I answer can i ask how bush has "financially" benefitted you? Are you referring to taxes?

Yes, taxes.

Do you make above $200k? Because if you don't you're not going to see an uprise in taxes.

That's a stupid question. I don't make anywhere near that now, but I hope to in the future. I want a tax policy to benefit everyone (low taxes all around), not just lower income people, because I don't plan on being lower income for the rest of my life.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Does an Assault Weapons Ban affect you personally?

Dubya encourages out-sourcing jobs overseas. Might that affect you personally? Dubya is a warmonger. He offends our allies. The next President will have to deal with Iran and North Korea. Might that affect you personally? He had secret meetings with energy companies. Look at today's fuel prices. Has that affected you personally? Dubya has increased air and water pollution. Might that affect you personally? Are you sure?

It affects me. I like shooting my M4. It's fun.

Outsourcing wouldn't be necessary if America was more competitive in manufacturing costs. Outsourcing is better than the alternative, when you look at it. A company decides it can't afford to manufacture in the US anymore. It can a) outsource the manufacturing jobs and keep R&D here in the states or b) shut down everything.

As far as offending the allies. The only people who don't like us are France and Germany and they already stated that they aren't going to cooperate even if Kerry is elected. They were in bed with Saddam and the Oil for Food program. You see .. they were on the take. They didn't like being called on it and their cash cow being killed.

OPEC and the market decide oil prices, not the President. Just FYI, there.

I don't see how the President has increased pollution .. it's not like he's out there burning tires on the back lawn at the white house.

 

[Grakatt]

Originally posted by: JDub02

I don't see how the President has increased pollution .. it's not like he's out there burning tires on the back lawn at the white house.

Sigh...would that he were doing that instead.
http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/