Terri Schiavo

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Jfrag Teh Foul
Nazi's thought it was fun to kill people in cruel ways too. As a matter of fact, they were fond of starving people that were a drain on their society.

<---Throws a flag on the play

By bringing up the Nazi's you lose by default

 

[Jfrag Teh Foul]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Jfrag Teh Foul
Nazi's thought it was fun to kill people in cruel ways too. As a matter of fact, they were fond of starving people that were a drain on their society.

<---Throws a flag on the play

By bringing up the Nazi's you lose by default

Ok, Stalin thought that way as well.

 

[aphex]

Judge in Pinellas county just temporary blocked the order... Tube will not come out for now.... Possibly in 15 minutes though, weird...

 

[Kremlar]

I think, based on the videos on her site, it's apparent that those are not involuntary movements. She's reacting based on the people around her and what they are doing/saying. I can't understand how anyone would call those 'involuntary' actions - they clearly are not.

That being said, I know I wouldn't want to be kept alive in the condition she is in. So, the question is, if she never made the choice via some kind of living will while she was alive, who gets to choose for her? Her husband or her parents?

I'm not a religious person, but I do believe things can happen that are completely unexpected or unexplainable. Realistically, she will never recover. If it's been 15 years now with no improvement, it's probably not going to happen. However, even if there is a .000001 chance of something changing, there should be a choice. The question is at this point, who gets to make it.

 

[Jfrag Teh Foul]

Not too long ago a guy in my state revived after 20 years in a coma. Bet he is glad they didn't pull the feeding tube.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: Jfrag Teh Foul
Not too long ago a guy in my state revived after 20 years in a coma. Bet he is glad they didn't pull the feeding tube.

I think being in a coma is quite a big difference from being in a vegatative state with brain damage.

 

[xospec1alk]

is coma = persistent vegetative state?

 

[StageLeft]

P.S. I'm surprised the media didn't champion the case of a woman who came out of a coma 20 years later (2005). She was able to recognize her dad and do a little chat. The story came out the very week Schavio's case was the hot discussion in February, but no one seemed to give consideration to the recovering woman's story.

All comas are not created equal.

ugh, you know many people can be kept alive brain dead. imagine if we did that to every case we could. we'd have hospitals full of em.

Yeah, it's not like once in a blue moon somebody is taken off a respirator. Mrsskoorb has witnessed it a multitude of times in just a couple of years of nursing. It happens ALL THE TIME.

maybe in the future we'll be able to keep separate limbs alive on artificial support. keep hospitals full of racks of bits and pieces of people we manage to salvage. its life.

lol

Nazi's thought it was fun to kill people in cruel ways too. As a matter of fact, they were fond of starving people that were a drain on their society.

Godwin's law!

Not too long ago a guy in my state revived after 20 years in a coma. Bet he is glad they didn't pull the feeding tube.

Again, not all comas are created equal.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: xospec1alk
is coma = persistent vegetative state?

A coma is a profound or deep state of unconsciousness. The affected individual is alive but is not able to react or respond to life around him/her. Coma may occur as an expected progression or complication of an underlying illness, or as a result of an event such as head trauma.

A persistent vegetative state, which sometimes follows a coma, refers to a condition in which individuals have lost cognitive neurological function and awareness of the environment but retain noncognitive function and a perserved sleep-wake cycle.

It is sometimes described as when a person is technically alive, but his/her brain is dead. However, that description is not completely accurate. In persistent vegetative state the individual loses the higher cerebral powers of the brain, but the functions of the brainstem, such as respiration (breathing) and circulation, remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli, but the patient does not speak or obey commands. Patients in a vegetative state may appear somewhat normal. They may occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh.

Is there any treatment?
Once the patient is out of immediate danger, although still in coma or vegetative state, the medical care team will concentrate on preventing infections and maintaining the patient's physical state as much as possible.

Such maintenance includes preventing pneumonia and bed sores and providing balanced nutrition. Physical therapy may also be used to prevent contractures (permanent muscular contractions) and orthopedic deformities that would limit recovery for the patients who emerge from coma.

What is the prognosis?
The outcome for coma and vegetative state depends on the cause and on the location, severity, and extent of neurological damage: outcomes range from recovery to death. People may emerge from a coma with a combination of physical, intellectual, and psychological difficulties that need special attention.

Recovery usually occurs gradually, with patients acquiring more and more ability to respond. Some patients never progress beyond very basic responses, but many recover full awareness. Patients recovering from coma require close medical supervision. A coma rarely lasts more than 2 to 4 weeks. Some patients may regain a degree of awareness after vegetative state. Others may remain in a vegetative state for years or even decades. The most common cause of death for a person in a vegetative state is infection such as pneumonia.

 

[Jfrag Teh Foul]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nazi's thought it was fun to kill people in cruel ways too. As a matter of fact, they were fond of starving people that were a drain on their society.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Godwin's law!

I am not being ugly towards anyone here... simply stating a fact.

One would think that this comment would be allowed since there has been plenty allowance for inflamatory remarks towards people who are religious.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Jfrag Teh Foul
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nazi's thought it was fun to kill people in cruel ways too. As a matter of fact, they were fond of starving people that were a drain on their society.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Godwin's law!

I am not being ugly towards anyone here... simply stating a fact.

One would think that this comment would be allowed since there has been plenty allowance for inflamatory remarks towards people who are religious.

 

[oldman420]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The President considers her to be a disabled person:

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary - For Immediate Release March 17, 2005

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
The case of Terri Schiavo raises complex issues. Yet in instances like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws, and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life. Those who live at the mercy of others deserve our special care and concern. It should be our goal as a nation to build a culture of life, where all Americans are valued, welcomed, and protected and that culture of life must extend to individuals with disabilities.

roflmao.
Did gwb really say that?
I'm sure this strikes close to home since there are so many mentally disabled persons in the White House these days.

roflmao.
Did gwb really say that?

 

[oldman420]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: KK
I agree that it's hopeless to keep her alive. And also if they are going to pull the feeding tube, they need to use a lethal injection.

This country is still too morally weak to use euthanasia, so instead it will take a passive approach to letting her die, instead of an active one to kill her, the result of both being the same thing, but in one case people can pretend their hands are clean of it.

I agree but she seems to me to not be suffering, why not just let her die to start with.
we as a society are confused.

Yeah in this case if she's as brain dead as they claim, it doesn't matter if she starves to death, suffocates, is eaten by rats, etc. In any case it is illegal to kill somebody, so their only option is to take out the tube and let her die.

But it is just the one doctor that has only visited her like twice that has declared her brain dead. There are other doctors that say that she isn't. Even when watching the videos of her you can tell she isn't.....she moves around and makes noises. Someone has to be one sick SOB to let her die from hunger and stop anyone from trying rehabilitation for her.

Well being a local news story here, its pretty much on the news every night for quite awhile now. From what i've heard, its not just one doctor who saw her in person, but from many other doctors who have studied the brain scans, etc... Most of them believe that her motions are involuntary and that there is no rehabilitation that would rescue her from her vegatative state, she is just too far gone.

Personally, i think its time people let her go to a better place.

the only problem is the trip to that other place will be bad very bad.
imagine there is a little there enough to sense pain hunger etc.
imagine what it would be like to starve to death.

:disgust:

 

[Mayfriday0529]

CNN reports
Case judge reinstates order to remove Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. Details soon.

first they say keep it today and now again remove it, jeez poor lady and family also.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: oldman420

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The President considers her to be a disabled person:

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary - For Immediate Release March 17, 2005

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
The case of Terri Schiavo raises complex issues. Yet in instances like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws, and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life. Those who live at the mercy of others deserve our special care and concern. It should be our goal as a nation to build a culture of life, where all Americans are valued, welcomed, and protected and that culture of life must extend to individuals with disabilities.

roflmao.
Did gwb really say that?
I'm sure this strikes close to home since there are so many mentally disabled persons in the White House these days.

roflmao.
Did gwb really say that?

That is on the front page of the Terrysfight website.

I don;t see an Official release like that at the Whitehouse site however hre is link to Press Secretary McClellan on it yesterday:

Q Scott, back to the Schiavo case for a minute. Any legislation the President would sign would represent federal intervention in an issue that's already been decided at the state level by state courts that even the U.S. Supreme Court had an opportunity to review and decided not to. So is the President concerned at all about the legal precedent he's setting by allowing this kind of federal intervention into this case?

 

[Chadder007]

MYTH: Many doctors have said that there is no hope for her.
FACT: Dr. Victor Gambone testified that he visits Terri 3 times a year. His visits last for approximately 10 minutes. He also testified, after viewing the court videotapes at Terri?s recent trial, that he was surprised to see Terri?s level of awareness. This doctor is part of a team hand-picked by her husband, Michael Schiavo, shortly before he filed to have Terri?s feeding removed. Contrary to Schiavo?s team, 14 independent medical professionals (6 of them neurologists) have given either statements or testimony that Terri is NOT in a Persistent Vegetative State. Additionally, there has never been any medical dispute of Terri?s ability to swallow. Even with this compelling evidence, Terri?s husband, Michael Schiavo, has denied any form of therapy for her for over 10 years.

Dr. Melvin Greer, appointed by Schiavo, testified that a doctor need not examine a patient to know the appropriate medical treatment. He spent approximately 45 minutes with Terri. Dr. Peter Bambakidis, appointed by Judge Greer, spent approximately 30 minutes with Terri. Dr. Ronald Cranford, also appointed by Schiavo and who has publicly labeled himself ?Dr. Death?, spent less than 45 minutes examining and interacting with Terri.

 

[msparish]

I used to slightly question the husband's motives, but once her turned down the $1 million to keep her alive I don't think there is any question. He truly feels that he is doing what Terri would have wanted. I think it's time to let Terri go.

 

[oldman420]

how gentle "let her go?"

don't you mean starve her to death?

get real if they want her gone that bad just injest her with a gram of morphine

thats being "let go"

ever been really really hungry and thirsty?

 

[Wheezer]

I think it's a pretty sad stae of affairs when a woman who is not hurting anyone, she has a loving family ready to take care of her has less rights than this sick SOB......why can't we starve his ass to death?

 

[BarneyFife]

I wonder what insurance company has to pay for all these bills.

 

[lebe0024]

A lot of experts put her at the mental capacity of a 6-11 month old infant. From what I've seen, she can't be any more mental than that. BUT SHES NOT DEAD. And despite her tube, she can SWALLOW FOOD AND WATER. If her parents want to take care of her, I don't see why everyone wants to put her to death. Think about that, they're putting her to death! Who are we to judge who is worthy to live anymore? Are you the judge? Is her husband the judge? Have you even gone one day without food or water? ONE DAY? You have no idea what it's like to starve to death.

This is not a euthinasia debate. People who are terminal and clearly wish to die easier and quicker have a case in my book. This is very very different. She's not terminal. She's not even ill. At best, she's suffered brain damage and can understand next to nothing. I plead with you all to rethink this. This has huge implications for our future.

 

[oldman420]

lebe0024
a voice of truth thank you.
congress and the house have both intervened and have invited Teri and her husband to testify she is now considered a witness to a federal case and is quite well protected for the time being, I hope

 

[lebe0024]

Look. One of my very BEST friends had a massive brain hemorage a few years back. That night, doctors gave him absolutely no hope. They said it was probably not even worth it to operate. They operated anyway, and he stabilized, but only after massive brain damage. He was in a coma for four months. He came out of the coma with almost no cognatition. But, because his loving,faithful, and dedicated wife and kids, they put every effort into rehabilitation. If you met him today, you would have no idea what happened to him. He's absolutely 100% as smart as he was then (except he can't read nearly as fast as before, but he can write just fine). He's a project manager at Kodak. He kicks my butt in basketball (and everything else). I know terri's case is different, but her husband has given her no hope. Why would he not allow rehabilitation? What possible reason could he have?

I think Terri's husband didn't want the hard life of taking care of her and rehabilitating her. He's put every effort, including the million he won in court trying to end this chapter of his life. I imagine its a hard hard life taking care of someone like Terri. In fact, I don't know what I would do if I was in his shoes; it's probably very very hard. I have an severly autistic / mentally retarded half-brother who is hard to take care of (I don't take care of him, his mother does); I can't imagine what it's like to take care of someone like Terri. But if her parents are able and willing, PLEASE give her to them.

 

[Carbo]

You blew your entire argument and showed your true angle with that "adulterous husband" crack. That has nothing to do with this story at all. What's he supposed to do? Remain a holy man for the rest of his life because of the unfortunate fate of Terri?

 

[lebe0024]

Fine, I'll take it out. But, I think it's a very dishonorable thing for him to do. Vows aren't called vows for nothing. And marriage isn't sex. And I can't see how love for his wife would lead him to that.