terrorist attack in Orlando gay club - 50 dead, another 53 wounded

[lopri]

It isn't white people's fault that 70% of black babies are born to single mothers. White people don't force them to have babies. Period.

Black lives only matter when they can point to exogenous variables for blame, otherwise they don't matter.

Besides, what has the first black president done to fix any problems of the black people? He hasn't done anything except import more low skilled,low wage, low education voters by the hundreds of thousands, the same people which take jobs that black people could take to build a thriving middle class and move up the socio-economic ladder. Or how about destroy the manufacturing class through tpp? How about touting higher education rather than skills and holding black parents accountable for a lack of parental engagement in grade school?

how about talking about how much of a punk that Trayvon was and saying how black parents could do better. Instead, just push it off to race baiters and hucksters.

That's why blm is hypocritical, short sighted, and will ultimately fail.

Obama did not do much for blacks during his presidency, you are right about that, but that is the point. As the first black president to the suspicious/uneasy majority, he had to prove that he is just like the presidents of the 240 years who came before him and that black president is not something the voters should be scared about. As a trailblazer he did not have the luxury of being lax (think W. Bush) because any misstep he takes can be used against blacks as proof of their inferiority. To the disappointment of many Republicans, Obama seems poised to finish his terms in an utterly boring fashion, scandal-free.

Likewise, expect to hear feminist leaders bemoaning how Hillary Clinton is not doing more for women despite her being the first woman president. She has been carrying that extra burden of proof throughout her entire career, and she is unlikely to change in that aspect. But she will have made an enormous difference for the future generation of female leaders and politicians.

 

[mandrake99]

Obama seems poised to finish his terms in an utterly boring fashion, scandal-free.

she will have made an enormous difference for the future generation of female leaders and politicians.

Scandal free?
Obama administration scandal free. That is laughable.

She did make a difference on how not to act.

 

[umbrella39]

Recently reactivated alt is recently reactivated...

 

[agent00f]

What % is that? And what happens when they get educated and raise up? Do you think they go back to the 'hood and hang with gang bangers? Hardly, they move up and out.


Please, the police crackdown with the war on drugs was nothing more than enforcing reasonable laws. Nobody wants to be around them because they refuse to be accountable for their actions. Blaming white people for it won't get them anywhere until they can fix their own shit.

The relatively blue affluent areas are nothing but bi-coastal fuckwits who want nothing more than to pay off minorities so that they don't riot and take what the .01% has siphoned off from the country through offshoring and immigrating millions illegally to boost profits further. It's a game which the black *AND* white people have been played for fools. Name a single liberal, except for a socialist, like Sanders, which has utterly rejected TPP? Did the Great Black Hope, Obama, reject it? Fuck no, he ramrodded that shit through. Has he stopped importing cheap, uneducated, poor, wage sucking labor? Fuck no, he ramrods it through. Did Hillary reject TPP? Fuck no, it was perfect to her and NAFTA was perfect to her Husband.

Face it, your liberal leaders are nothing more than race baiting hucksters beholden to the .01%. Your enemy isn't the average white person, it's the average .01% that feasts on the carcass of the middle class. Your enemy is my enemy and the *LAST* person who'll fight the common enemy is Hillary, because she *IS* the enemy. The quicker you get that shit through your skull the quicker you can fix minority suffering from a lack of real jobs and opportunity.

Speaking of buying votes, people like yourself are willfully ignorant that the vast majority of american government spending is on the military and the elderly, absolutely dwarfing anything else and both skewing for the GOP. The military is mainly a job bank for the white lower class, both in terms of service and manufacturing, and evidently keeping old bigots alive so they can spite people not like them is very expensive.

So you're right that politics involves the paying off rubes for support, while remaining entirely clueless who they've been paying off, because in polite society they'd rather not explain that you've been the rube. In simple terms, you've been voting for them all these years to collect a selfish reward now while selling out the future middle class. All while conveniently blaming it on the coloreds and foreigner looking, ie. anyone but yourself.

The reason I focus on the money trail is it's a matter of real world factual accounting, rather than worthless rhetoric. Regrettably an audience who ain't good with numbers can't distinguish between the two.

 

[Ackmed]

You really don't have a clue to what you speak about. You continue to shout insults and call names, while being very ignorant. Good job.

 

[LegendKiller]

Obama did not do much for blacks during his presidency, you are right about that, but that is the point. As the first black president to the suspicious/uneasy majority, he had to prove that he is just like the presidents of the 240 years who came before him and that black president is not something the voters should be scared about. As a trailblazer he did not have the luxury of being lax (think W. Bush) because any misstep he takes can be used against blacks as proof of their inferiority. To the disappointment of many Republicans, Obama seems poised to finish his terms in an utterly boring fashion, scandal-free.

Likewise, expect to hear feminist leaders bemoaning how Hillary Clinton is not doing more for women despite her being the first woman president. She has been carrying that extra burden of proof throughout her entire career, and she is unlikely to change in that aspect. But she will have made an enormous difference for the future generation of female leaders and politicians.

lol - I can't believe you think it's because somebody else. The single greatest thing he could have done for black people - stemming illegal immigration and not going into TPP, he utterly failed to do. In fact, he encouraged more of it.

Then he doubles down on the stupid and rather than being a leader, he became a race baiter with Trayvon.

The feminist trope is even more stupid than BLM. The "wage gap" is easily explainable - what it really boils down to is women want to get paid more effectively. That and they aren't great at negotiation, something I am not going to allow happen with my daughter. I'd rather her be empowered to haggle than be a victim princess asking for handouts.

Scandal free? What'chu talkin' about Willis? IRS, Fast and Furious, gun running in Benghazi, ISIS is a "JV Team", Morsi being tried and convicted. Every fucking thing this guy has touched has been a disaster. But at lease Michelle "improved" school lunches. Sheesh, that was close.

 

[LegendKiller]

Speaking of buying votes, people like yourself are willfully ignorant that the vast majority of american government spending is on the military and the elderly, absolutely dwarfing anything else and both skewing for the GOP. The military is mainly a job bank for the white lower class, both in terms of service and manufacturing, and evidently keeping old bigots alive so they can spite people not like them is very expensive.

So you're right that politics involves the paying off rubes for support, while remaining entirely clueless who they've been paying off, because in polite society they'd rather not explain that you've been the rube. In simple terms, you've been voting for them all these years to collect a selfish reward now while selling out the future middle class. All while conveniently blaming it on the coloreds and foreigner looking, ie. anyone but yourself.

The reason I focus on the money trail is it's a matter of real world factual accounting, rather than worthless rhetoric. Regrettably an audience who ain't good with numbers can't distinguish between the two.

lol a job bank, nice. So what does that make Hillary, who runs around starting wars and overthrowing governments everywhere? Yeah, she's a real gem, peddling influence to get $111mm and causing wars. Super.

And herein lies the rub, what you consider "racism" (everything) is nothing more than logic. You think I blame "coloreds" when I really don't give a shit. Come here legally, do your job(s), pay your bills, don't break the law, and I have no problem with you. If you come here with a good degree and get a high paying job and keep the money in the country, even better. But when somebody says that you just dismiss it. Why? Because it doesn't fit your identity politics. You'd rather polarize me for holding people accountable than just simply hold people accountable.

Your "Factual" accounting is a joke. All you do is spew worthless rhetoric while hurling *isms without even knowing a single thing.

Who is your alt or how much are you getting

 

[zentan]

Good points by LegendKiller. Delusional victim mindset by covering under "feminist" or other categories is just stupid,such groups just become mere vote-banks and have victimhood,privilege and attention-seeking nonsense.

 

[pcgeek11]

Recently reactivated alt is recently reactivated...

And your point is?????

 

[Paratus]

And what has that done? Fuck all. Unemployment among young black men is horrible. 70% born to unwed mothers, which is a huge indication of future success. High school dropout rates are terrible. Now we have policies in public schools that won't even let teachers discipline them. Inner city schools are facing more violence inside the school, teachers are getting assaulted, some permanently injured, one recently has severe brain damage from a kid who hit them. This is the new policy, if you don't punish minority kids, they can stay in school and learn. Except they don't learn. Because the parents (or lack thereof) don't tell them to, don't instill it from day 1.

Reforms can't be top down, they must be bottom up. The community must take ownership of their failures and drive change. Unfortunately, they just drive scapegoating and exogenous variables for everything. There isn't a single other minority in this country that does what they do and it shows.

A lack of responsibility breeds complacency and dependency. This is what the left wants. They don't want independent voters, they want ones 100% dependent on the State.

The path to success that some people have to follow is like this sidewalk. It's level, clear, and takes them where they want to go. Sure if they fall they'll skin thier hands and knees and have to pick themselves up. But let's face it, if they fall it's because they tripped over their own two feet.

Now the path for others is more like this dirt road. It's hard to see if it's taking you to where you want to go. The ground is rough and can be treacherous. If you fall you'll have to pick yourself up out of the mud and dirt to get where you need to be. If you're on this path you'll have a much harder time and have to show more strength than someone born on a sidewalk.


Finally

This is the path some find themselves on. It's obviously a straight and level line to get where they are going. There's no uneven ground to trip them and they won't have to pick themselves up out of the mud if they fall nor even a hard sidewalk to hurt themselves on. If they don't make it where they are going it's obviously due to a lack of responsibility and character on their part.
Right?

 

[Svnla]

I will put this here, related to the topic of the thread.

$9,000 worth of jewelry purchased days before the shooting by the shooter - http://abcnews.go.com/US/orlando-gunman-omar-mateen-bought-9000-worth-jewelry/story?id=39977718

 

[HomerJS]

lol a job bank, nice. So what does that make Hillary, who runs around starting wars and overthrowing governments everywhere? Yeah, she's a real gem, peddling influence to get $111mm and causing wars. Super.

And herein lies the rub, what you consider "racism" (everything) is nothing more than logic. You think I blame "coloreds" when I really don't give a shit. Come here legally, do your job(s), pay your bills, don't break the law, and I have no problem with you. If you come here with a good degree and get a high paying job and keep the money in the country, even better. But when somebody says that you just dismiss it. Why? Because it doesn't fit your identity politics. You'd rather polarize me for holding people accountable than just simply hold people accountable.

Your "Factual" accounting is a joke. All you do is spew worthless rhetoric while hurling *isms without even knowing a single thing.

Who is your alt or how much are you getting

You are so right. We need to get back to losing 800K jobs/month

 

[werepossum]

You didn't explain what you response is to the 25%.

And I would have no problem telling the victims' families that fear and vengeance are not a reasoned or righteous response to such a tragedy.

What else you got?

For the first, how about we admit that we have a serious problem with Muslims abroad and therefore need to deploy a multi-layered, cautious, conservative vetting process before allowing in Muslims from problem nations and areas?

For the second, why are you so willing to tell the victims' families that "fear and vengeance are not a reasoned or righteous response" to vicious mass murder yet so unwilling to tell Muslims that murder is not a reasoned or righteous response to homosexuality, depicting Muhammad, "insulting" Islam, improperly handling a Quran, etc.?

Scandal free?
Obama administration scandal free. That is laughable.

She did make a difference on how not to act.

His later years have been very scandal free. His earlier years have their scandals, but few if any successfully linked to Obama himself, or his inner circle.

 

[jackstar7]

For the first, how about we admit that we have a serious problem with Muslims abroad and therefore need to deploy a multi-layered, cautious, conservative vetting process before allowing in Muslims from problem nations and areas?

For the second, why are you so willing to tell the victims' families that "fear and vengeance are not a reasoned or righteous response" to vicious mass murder yet so unwilling to tell Muslims that murder is not a reasoned or righteous response to homosexuality, depicting Muhammad, "insulting" Islam, improperly handling a Quran, etc.?

I... what?

Vetting for immigrants is exhaustive regardless of where you come from. If you want to make it actually prohibitive, then that's another issue.

How did you decide that I'm unwilling to tell Muslims that murder is not a correct response to anything? Their faith is not exempt from my contempt of all faiths. But that wasn't brought up until you just did here... weirdly.

 

[Jaskalas]

The explanation is meant to benefit people who think BlackLivesMatter means OnlyBlackLivesMatter, probably because that's what they think about the white race.

Isn't this a whole OTHER subject than Orlando?
Aside from BLM interrupting memorials for the victims.

As for your contention, police brutality and killings are against everyone. It's their standard policy to escalate into deadly conflict. One wrong flinch, one human reaction to being confronted, and they kill innocent people. Happens all the time, to all races.

It's a racist movement to hinge police brutality on one race.
Non racial movements are color blind.

 

[umbrella39]

And your point is?????

Point is, this time every 4 years people fire up their ALTs in a desperate attempt to make it look like their opinion is more valid and validated by their yes-man alt accounts. Predictable, pathetic, and boring...

 

[ivwshane]

Did I hear this right? No body was shot until the police/swat went in? My concern and question would be; did people die because of friendly fire?

 

[agent00f]

lol a job bank, nice. So what does that make Hillary, who runs around starting wars and overthrowing governments everywhere? Yeah, she's a real gem, peddling influence to get $111mm and causing wars. Super.

And herein lies the rub, what you consider "racism" (everything) is nothing more than logic. You think I blame "coloreds" when I really don't give a shit. Come here legally, do your job(s), pay your bills, don't break the law, and I have no problem with you. If you come here with a good degree and get a high paying job and keep the money in the country, even better. But when somebody says that you just dismiss it. Why? Because it doesn't fit your identity politics. You'd rather polarize me for holding people accountable than just simply hold people accountable.

Your "Factual" accounting is a joke. All you do is spew worthless rhetoric while hurling *isms without even knowing a single thing.

Who is your alt or how much are you getting

I do very much polarize the backward portions of this country who are proud of objective ignorance and anti-intellectualism in general, no different than the trashy parts of the one's family always mooching off the rest while blaming all their problems on the gubmint, minorities, or basically anyone not them.

Personally, there'd be nothing better than the "dimwits" on the coasts seceding from such a ceasepool, and spending their first year's massive tax surplus on a wall facing inland to keep out the undesirables. The looks on their dumb faces as their government-welfare based economy and social order collapses, then they realize they were the "mexicans" and "violent muslims" of this country all along will be well worth the cost.

Since your lot at least agree we can't see eye to eye, you should have no objections to such a plan.

 

[buckshot24]

Recently reactivated alt is recently reactivated...

There seems to be a growing coalition of bipartisan support that this is an alt. I'll sign on with you as a cosponsor.

 

[agent00f]

Isn't this a whole OTHER subject than Orlando?
Aside from BLM interrupting memorials for the victims.

As for your contention, police brutality and killings are against everyone. It's their standard policy to escalate into deadly conflict. One wrong flinch, one human reaction to being confronted, and they kill innocent people. Happens all the time, to all races.

It's a racist movement to hinge police brutality on one race.
Non racial movements are color blind.

The reason I wrote that post is to highlight the key common thread of all this minority scapegoating. Any minimal amount of figuring should be able to deduce that a great way for a politician to get votes is blame a small portion of the population for the problems of the majority, eg blacks/mexicans/jews/muslims/etc. Hell, point out this straight up bigotry and get lip back from those perpetuating it that you're the real bigot.

Police brutality effects everyone, but like gun crime, a plurality of americans (and evidently majority of white americans) could care less as long as it doesn't affect people like themselves too much. Even if it can be argued this doesn't stem from bigotry, it's at the very least selfish.

I've always suspected the problem with discussing this is many people simply don't understand what bigotry implies. Let's say instead of divisions along ethnic lines, we find out that the undereducated with certain uppity conservative christian ideologies were more detrimental than muslims. Hardly far fetched given how ultra-violent their record is as previously demonstrated. Now I'm sure a vast majority of those folks aren't dangerous, but just to be safe let's put them on a special watch list and restrict their movement. Sounds like those conspiracies about FEMA-camps, except the fear mongered here is that if they don't do it to someone else, it's going to be done to them.

There seems to be a growing coalition of bipartisan support that this is an alt. I'll sign on with you as a cosponsor.

I'm sure these are people with some character who'll apologize once their errors are evident.

 

[MongGrel]

The path to success that some people have to follow is like this sidewalk. It's level, clear, and takes them where they want to go. Sure if they fall they'll skin thier hands and knees and have to pick themselves up. But let's face it, if they fall it's because they tripped over their own two feet.

Now the path for others is more like this dirt road. It's hard to see if it's taking you to where you want to go. The ground is rough and can be treacherous. If you fall you'll have to pick yourself up out of the mud and dirt to get where you need to be. If you're on this path you'll have a much harder time and have to show more strength than someone born on a sidewalk.


Finally

This is the path some find themselves on. It's obviously a straight and level line to get where they are going. There's no uneven ground to trip them and they won't have to pick themselves up out of the mud if they fall nor even a hard sidewalk to hurt themselves on. If they don't make it where they are going it's obviously due to a lack of responsibility and character on their part.
Right?

+1

Some people on the forum seem like plants or are incredibly ignorant to begin with, but I was warned about a few when I joined.

It just does not wear off over time in some cases, it appears.

 

[werepossum]

The path to success that some people have to follow is like this sidewalk. It's level, clear, and takes them where they want to go. Sure if they fall they'll skin thier hands and knees and have to pick themselves up. But let's face it, if they fall it's because they tripped over their own two feet.

Now the path for others is more like this dirt road. It's hard to see if it's taking you to where you want to go. The ground is rough and can be treacherous. If you fall you'll have to pick yourself up out of the mud and dirt to get where you need to be. If you're on this path you'll have a much harder time and have to show more strength than someone born on a sidewalk.

Finally

This is the path some find themselves on. It's obviously a straight and level line to get where they are going. There's no uneven ground to trip them and they won't have to pick themselves up out of the mud if they fall nor even a hard sidewalk to hurt themselves on. If they don't make it where they are going it's obviously due to a lack of responsibility and character on their part.
Right?

That's a pretty good analogy, in some ways. If one is poor, living in the ghetto, attending shit schools where success simply means you survive, and especially if one is also black, then one faces an uphill climb to succeed to a middle class standard, and what might be a minor stumble in an affluent person can end any practical chance of success, or at least send one far back down the ladder. Anyone in America can make it, but the difficulty varies by many orders of magnitude.

I... what?

Vetting for immigrants is exhaustive regardless of where you come from. If you want to make it actually prohibitive, then that's another issue.

How did you decide that I'm unwilling to tell Muslims that murder is not a correct response to anything? Their faith is not exempt from my contempt of all faiths. But that wasn't brought up until you just did here... weirdly.

Vetting certainly isn't exhaustive for Muslim refugees, as we regularly bring in people who are violently anti-American. And in the case of Syrian refugees, there is no central government remaining (and willing to talk to us, who tried to overthrow it) to even validate their identities, much less level of radicalization.

My apologies if I've overstated your feelings on the other, but equating Islam with Christianity is in my opinion much of our problem. If we cannot honesty differentiate between staunch fundamentalist Christians opposing gay marriage and staunch fundamentalist Muslims wanting gay people dead (and promised eternal bliss amongst a few dozen virgins for doing the deed), then we cannot honestly address the issue, much less properly vet those who feel this way.

 

[buckshot24]

This is the path some find themselves on. It's obviously a straight and level line to get where they are going. There's no uneven ground to trip them and they won't have to pick themselves up out of the mud if they fall nor even a hard sidewalk to hurt themselves on. If they don't make it where they are going it's obviously due to a lack of responsibility and character on their part.
Right?

Should we help people who are on this path or just people who have a certain color skin?

 

[jackstar7]

Vetting certainly isn't exhaustive for Muslim refugees, as we regularly bring in people who are violently anti-American. And in the case of Syrian refugees, there is no central government remaining (and willing to talk to us, who tried to overthrow it) to even validate their identities, much less level of radicalization.

My apologies if I've overstated your feelings on the other, but equating Islam with Christianity is in my opinion much of our problem. If we cannot honesty differentiate between staunch fundamentalist Christians opposing gay marriage and staunch fundamentalist Muslims wanting gay people dead (and promised eternal bliss amongst a few dozen virgins for doing the deed), then we cannot honestly address the issue, much less properly vet those who feel this way.

What? What regularity? Violently? And refugees... it's a messed up situation. But if I get what you're implying, you'd rather keep out some number of perfectly benevolent refugees who are then forced to endure continued nightmares vs letting in... one? some other number? What's the ratio of "evil-doers" we can permit to also take in those most desperately in need of sanctuary?

From where is the sense that not only do Muslims not support homosexuality, but that they want them all dead coming?

 

[agent00f]

Vetting certainly isn't exhaustive for Muslim refugees, as we regularly bring in people who are violently anti-American. And in the case of Syrian refugees, there is no central government remaining (and willing to talk to us, who tried to overthrow it) to even validate their identities, much less level of radicalization.

My apologies if I've overstated your feelings on the other, but equating Islam with Christianity is in my opinion much of our problem. If we cannot honesty differentiate between staunch fundamentalist Christians opposing gay marriage and staunch fundamentalist Muslims wanting gay people dead (and promised eternal bliss amongst a few dozen virgins for doing the deed), then we cannot honestly address the issue, much less properly vet those who feel this way.

Abrahamic theologies from back in the day tends to be more similar to each other than to modern thinking; the success stories like western europe / US are places where theology have adapted to modernity. In other words, this isn't a matter of what the words in the book say but how far along people have come to break from inherent backwardness of the species.

Historically speaking, current western nations (where the "christians" are) are maybe a hundred years ahead in development than most of the middle east (where most of the muslims are), though progress has sped up in modern times.

The greater point here should be that America as a country was populated by people who desired a break from the past and sought opportunity afar. For the most part it wasn't the successful cultured gentry looking to leave everything behind. Regardless of those origins of everyone here, hating on the noobs appears a time honored tradition.

Folks with some introspective ability should see that for what it is.