Terrorist attempts to blow up Federal Reserve Bank

[halik]

LOL. Inflation isn't a transfer of wealth?

Where does all that diluted buying power go then? You figure it just vanishes, like magic?

Clown economics...

You only experience decreasing buying power if you've made the choice to sit on a pile of dollars, presumably for liquidity reasons. It certainly is not where vast majority of household net worth is allocated and given that the average consumer debt load dominates cash on hand, it most definitely isn't transferring wealth from people.

 

[Juror No. 8]

Tell me, how much inflation does the Fed create versus what has been imputed by other sources. For example, how much is driven by non-monetary sources such as corn or increases in oil prices?

Irrelevant.

Furthermore, what, exactly, is wrong with predictable and moderate inflation? It adds predictability which reduces volatility and enables people to plan a bit better.

The problem with inflation is it acts as a sort of hidden stealth tax constantly eroding the buying power of people's hard-earned money. It essentially amounts to theft, but it's a theft most people don't realize is happening so the politicians and Fed get away with it.

 

[SSSnail]

You only experience decreasing buying power if you've made the choice to sit on a pile of dollars, presumably for liquidity reasons. It certainly is not where vast majority of household net worth is allocated and given that the average consumer debt load dominates cash on hand, it most definitely isn't transferring wealth from people.

Sorry, but I'm refraining really hard from calling you an idiot.

How much is your health insurance rates raised by this year? Food cost? Gasoline? Cost of service? Etc...

When you have to spend significant more of your money to buy the same shit you bought last year, that's real inflation. That's real decrease buying power. And I myself can feel it. I'm sure the other 95% of Americans would feel it more.

 

[SSSnail]

And I didn't see that LK stroked himself earlier in this thread about being the great savior of the FRB. LOL is all I have to say.

 

[LegendKiller]

Sorry, but I'm refraining really hard from calling you an idiot.

How much is your health insurance rates raised by this year? Food cost? Gasoline? Cost of service? Etc...

When you have to spend significant more of your money to buy the same shit you bought last year, that's real inflation. That's real decrease buying power. And I myself can feel it. I'm sure the other 95% of Americans would feel it more.

So all of that is 100% caused by monetary inflation?

Really?

 

[halik]

Sorry, but I'm refraining really hard from calling you an idiot.

How much is your health insurance rates raised by this year? Food cost? Gasoline? Cost of service? Etc...

When you have to spend significant more of your money to buy the same shit you bought last year, that's real inflation. That's real decrease buying power. And I myself can feel it. I'm sure the other 95% of Americans would feel it more.

You think any of those things above have anything to do with monetary supply?

 

[LegendKiller]

Irrelevant.



The problem with inflation is it acts as a sort of hidden stealth tax constantly eroding the buying power of people's hard-earned money. It essentially amounts to theft, but it's a theft most people don't realize is happening so the politicians and Fed get away with it.

Why is it irrelevant? Because you merely want to disassociate inflation from any other rational explanation merely because it is convenient for you?

Sorry, but your "tax" and "theft" bullshit doesn't fly.

1. It would work IF you got paid in the exact same dollars and *never* invested a penny in anything that bears interest anywhere close to inflation.

2. It would work IF you never even know that inflation existed, thus, even if you didn't get paid the exact same dollars but you DID just stuff everything in your mattress, every penny, you would get "taxed".

3. Even if 1 & 2 were true ( which they aren't since long-term wages have kept up with long-term inflation for the population in general and that most assets people buy do keep up with inflation), you still have the situation where you KNOW that inflation exists and you have the ability you counter it by buying assets that yield at least inflation. Since almost everybody knows it is true, then really inflation is only a tax on the stupid or the willfully negligent.

Furthermore, to draw the conclusion that *all* inflation is caused by the Fed is simply idiotic. However, to get around the idiocy you simply ignore it, very convenient for you. But then you fall back on the "tax/theft" argument which is nonsensical.

Also, money is nothing more than a transactional medium, if the value of that medium changes, whose fault is it for keeping it in the medium as opposed to investing it in something else? Aren't you and your libertopians all about personal responsibility? Should the US Government and taxpayers provide you with a free storage for wealth, for life? Even if that were the case you'd be bitching that you can't partake in other capital appreciation.

That gets down to another thing I always laugh at libertopians about, bitching about fractional reserve systems. Why should somebody take on your money and store it for you and not be able to do anything with it, free of charge? Why don't you just shove it under a mattress?

Of course, the same people who call inflation tax or theft call FRB theft, but really what it comes down to is that you cannot acknowledge that you have knowledge of both items and can choose to either not partake in it or counter it with available means.

 

[eits]

yippee ki-yay motherfucker!

by the way, do you think ron paul is sitting at home reading about this story thinking, "dammit! so close..."?

EDIT: damn, just saw someone else post about the connection with die hard...

 

[SSSnail]

So all of that is 100% caused by monetary inflation?

Really?

You think any of those things above have anything to do with monetary supply?

It's a combination of many things, and monetary supply is one factor, weak dollar policy is another. There's a host of things attributed to the inflation we're all experiencing, but yeah, the FRB is directly responsible for about half of the reasons.

 

[halik]

It's a combination of many things, and monetary supply is one factor, weak dollar policy is another. There's a host of things attributed to the inflation we're all experiencing, but yeah, the FRB is directly responsible for about half of the reasons.

You honestly believe that w/o central bank there would be significantly less healthcare/energy/food inflation? Definitely walk me through the mechanism of that happening.

The former couldn't be further removed from monetary policy and the latter two are global markets... not exactly something that the fed has control over.

 

[SSSnail]

You honestly believe that w/o central bank there would be significantly less healthcare/energy/food inflation? Definitely walk me through the mechanism of that happening.

The former couldn't be further removed from monetary policy and the latter two are global markets... not exactly something that the fed has control over.

I never said that; I'm just answering your questions. But one thing I can tell you is that we would not be indebted with every dollar printed.

Call it what you want, but when people in other countries can survive on 2 US dollars a day... I'll let you figure the rest out.

 

[halik]

I never said that; I'm just answering your questions. But one thing I can tell you is that we would not be indebted with every dollar printed.

Call it what you want, but when people in other countries can survive on 2 US dollars a day... I'll let you figure the rest out.

Not empirically true, if you look at the history of sovereign debt, periods of increases cannot be explain by creation of central bank (Bank of England became the central bank at around 1946)

http://runningofthebulls.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451986b69e2010536f30035970c-popup

Russia last 10 years (also have a central bank)
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/russia-government-debt-to-gdp.png?s=rusdebt2gdp

 

[SSSnail]

Where's the US chart?

 

[Juror No. 8]

Sorry, but your "tax" and "theft" bullshit doesn't fly.

LOL. Sure it does, and there's no intellectual tap dance you can put on to make taxes anything other than theft. Inflation is just a stealth tax, or stealth theft, kind of like pickpocketing.

"But, but, but... without inflation and the Federal Reserve, society would collapse! The economy would fall apart! The only thing that can save us is perpetual expansion of the debt-based, interest-bearing money supply! The big private banks who own the Federal Reserve stock said so!"

LOL!

 

[sMiLeYz]

Sounds to me inflation was alot worse pre-central bank and in the Gold Standard era.

 

[yllus]

Once again I am very pleased that the average terrorist is a complete loser who turns to terrorism because he's otherwise shunned by society and this is his way of romanticizing why that's happened. ("I don't along because they're corrupt and I am pure!") Good job, kiddo.

 

[LegendKiller]

I never said that; I'm just answering your questions. But one thing I can tell you is that we would not be indebted with every dollar printed.

Call it what you want, but when people in other countries can survive on 2 US dollars a day... I'll let you figure the rest out.

Which countries are those and how much do they make per day?


Another silly attribute of anti-fed people. They only consider one side of the equation.

 

[LegendKiller]

LOL. Sure it does, and there's no intellectual tap dance you can put on to make taxes anything other than theft. Inflation is just a stealth tax, or stealth theft, kind of like pickpocketing.

"But, but, but... without inflation and the Federal Reserve, society would collapse! The economy would fall apart! The only thing that can save us is perpetual expansion of the debt-based, interest-bearing money supply! The big private banks who own the Federal Reserve stock said so!"

LOL!

So you dont even have one semi intelligent counter to any of my points? This is why your guy cant get anywhere. You think that repeating something over and over like a 10yr old will drown out any debate. You cant even be honest about it. You just read something online and decided it was "fact" without considering anything else. Your self proclaimed intelligence and knowledge is a joke.

Just because you can duhflect and stick your fingers in your ears and say "stealth tax and theft" over and over doesnt make it true.

 

[halik]

LOL. Sure it does, and there's no intellectual tap dance you can put on to make taxes anything other than theft. Inflation is just a stealth tax, or stealth theft, kind of like pickpocketing.

"But, but, but... without inflation and the Federal Reserve, society would collapse! The economy would fall apart! The only thing that can save us is perpetual expansion of the debt-based, interest-bearing money supply! The big private banks who own the Federal Reserve stock said so!"

LOL!

I suspect you're 15 years old.

 

[halik]

Where's the US chart?

It's in the first chart (red line). Remember, your thesis is that central banks are the cause of sovereign debt.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I can't tell if this is a fake article made up by the feds ...

 

[SSSnail]

It's in the first chart (red line). Remember, your thesis is that central banks are the cause of sovereign debt.

I didn't say that it was the sole cause of our sovereign debt, but according to your chart, we're definitely better off prior to the creation of the central bank.

Looks to me debt was really bad after the crash, and now we're back on track to reaching that level. Coincidentally, our chart and the UK took on the same path after the creation of the central bank. Things that make you go :hmm:.

I think if you extend the chart back to the 1700, I have no doubt ours would look like the UK before we kicked the red coats asses.

 

[momeNt]

I can't tell if this is a fake article made up by the feds ...

It's fake in the sense that the Feds gave him the bomb. Apparently the best way to weed out terrorists is to offer bombs to them through their channels of communication. I'm more concerned about the terrorists that aren't being offered bombs by the Feds, the concern should be about the ones that don't need to be offered bombs by the Feds and can get them on their own through REAL terrorist channels.

 

[airdata]

after actually reading the article it does seem like this guy had his own ideas to do this... but im not sure how much of this story i can trust. if its like it says though, then the feds did a good job.

That's what the government would like everybody to think... That there's a terrorist threat and they're doing their job to stop it.

Most people don't read deep enough into these articles to see that the device was ' inert ' and likely provided to them by a government agent.

If you find a story like this regarding a bombing plot being foiled... it's all the same thing. US government trolls people on the internet until they find a muslim they can convince to play pretend to be a terrorist.

These people most likely lack any and all capability to complete any of the actions they're accused of without the government furnishing them w\ everything they need to complete the task.

 

[halik]

I didn't say that it was the sole cause of our sovereign debt, but according to your chart, we're definitely better off prior to the creation of the central bank.

Looks to me debt was really bad after the crash, and now we're back on track to reaching that level. Coincidentally, our chart and the UK took on the same path after the creation of the central bank. Things that make you go :hmm:.

I think if you extend the chart back to the 1700, I have no doubt ours would look like the UK before we kicked the red coats asses.

Yeah, but if the premise is that central banks play role in increasing sovereign debt, it would be present in all economies with central banks (logically). Since it's not the case, the underlying driver indebtedness must be something else. IIRC Nixons spending in Vietnam (that among another was the reason why gold standard went away) is what got the ball rolling in the 70s and WW2 was the reason before that.