A standard for quick-change battery modules at petrol stations would be doable.
A standard for quick-change battery modules at petrol stations would be doable.Related topic. The UK gov has said that they want to ban the sale of petrol/diesel vehicles by 2035.
What sort of power source is going to work for that?
I cant see how EVs can work for everyone. How do you charge one if you only have on street parking?
All I can see here is hydrogen making a bit of an inroads. It can use the same fueling infrastructure as regular ICE vehicles and you can get your 400 mile range in a 5 minute fuel stop.
What's the great advantage of batteries over fuel cells?
Considering how the batteries are integrated into the car and cooling systems, I just don't see that happening. Force a standard charging standard and install more chargers in common locations where people may park for a while.A standard for quick-change battery modules at petrol stations would be doable.
I just cant see everyone (and remember that the idea is to get everyone off petrol/diesel) plugging in on the street. There'll be cables running everywhere for a start.We need to think about how we set up our towns and cities to reduce reliance on personal automobiles. And we need to think about where to place charging infrastructure. You don't need individual EV "gas stations" - look into setting stuff up in places where you already have parking and people spending decent amounts of time: office parking lots, grocery store lots, etc...
I was thinking about this as I was in a queue for petrol last week. It takes a few minutes to fill an ICE car and we still get queues in busy petrol stations, even if we get EV car charging a lot quicker it's going to be hell if every car there takes 20 minutes to fuel! 3 cars in line in front of you? That's a lovely hours wait just to get to the plug!A standard for quick-change battery modules at petrol stations would be doable.
That's why we shouldn't just put charging stuff on streets. If you put it where there are already parking lots, it should be fine. People aren't charging their cars all the time. Plus, we should be looking to move people out of their personal autos more, further driving down individual car trips and charging needs.I just cant see everyone (and remember that the idea is to get everyone off petrol/diesel) plugging in on the street. There'll be cables running everywhere for a start.
That's why we shouldn't just put charging stuff on streets. If you put it where there are already parking lots, it should be fine. People aren't charging their cars all the time. Plus, we should be looking to move people out of their personal autos more, further driving down individual car trips and charging needs.
As for hydrogen, much of it comes from fossil fuels at the moment. Not sure that would be the best thing to switch to.
In Europe on street parking in cities is the norm.That's why we shouldn't just put charging stuff on streets. If you put it where there are already parking lots, it should be fine. People aren't charging their cars all the time. Plus, we should be looking to move people out of their personal autos more, further driving down individual car trips and charging needs.
That's the same as electric vehicles. Making batteries is pretty dirty. Hydrogen is as clean as your primary electricity generation.As for hydrogen, much of it comes from fossil fuels at the moment. Not sure that would be the best thing to switch to.
It's not theoretical; you're just stuck in the unimaginative windshield perspective. We didn't build up our current situation overnight, and we could certainly work to undo it with proper zoning and time. Plus, there are a lot of people who do live in cities, but have to rely on cars because we've made choices that make cities car-friendly and car necessary. We're not going to eliminate all cars, but since most car trips are under 10 miles, maybe it's time to reevaluate how we get around for most of them, particularly in urban and suburban areas.You are getting way to theoretical. We could completely eliminate the need for all of this if we burned down all cities, offices and started all over. The fact is that not everyone lives in the city, people park on streets, jobs are not always a few blocks away and people will need personal transportation. We currently have a very flexible transportation structure that allows nearly any income level mobility.
None of that matters though. However many cars there are they need to be powered and the question is whats the best way to do that. Even with lots of public transport you still have an issue of power.It's not theoretical; you're just stuck in the unimaginative windshield perspective. We didn't build up our current situation overnight, and we could certainly work to undo it with proper zoning and time. Plus, there are a lot of people who do live in cities, but have to rely on cars because we've made choices that make cities car-friendly and car necessary. We're not going to eliminate all cars, but since most car trips are under 10 miles, maybe it's time to reevaluate how we get around for most of them, particularly in urban and suburban areas.
It's not theoretical; you're just stuck in the unimaginative windshield perspective. We didn't build up our current situation overnight, and we could certainly work to undo it with proper zoning and time. Plus, there are a lot of people who do live in cities, but have to rely on cars because we've made choices that make cities car-friendly and car necessary. We're not going to eliminate all cars, but since most car trips are under 10 miles, maybe it's time to reevaluate how we get around for most of them, particularly in urban and suburban areas.
Hydrogen has some of the same problems electric charging would have, like where do you build filling stations? But then it's compounded by the logistics of hydrogen storage, inability to charge at home, hydrogen cannot be transported by pipeline, and much of it comes out of the ground as a byproduct of the oil and gas we're extracting for our cars and other oil-based enterprises.None of that matters though. However many cars there are they need to be powered and the question is whats the best way to do that. Even with lots of public transport you still have an issue of power.
Now we could use electric and batteries for this but that's a lot of batteries and a lot of stress on the local power grid. I'm just wondering if hydrogen is a more workable solution and if not why.
I do consider the realities and fully recognize that giving up a personal auto isn't for everyone. I think you give people too much credit for "re-evaluating" their situations and fail to recognize the government policies that drove us to our current situation and keep us trapped here. That's all I'm going to say on this topic. I apologize for driving the thread off topic, which should instead be focused on the upcoming hideous and gigantic Cybertruck.If anyone is stuck, it's you on this reimagined world without a thought of how to get there. Instead of actually thinking about a plan, you stomp your feet and insult others when they don't feel you consider realities. Statements like, "reevaluate how get around" are shallow and meaningless. People continually reevaluate their situation and if it makes sense to drive a hour to work or move closer. Guess what, they rarely do. If it were that easy to reshuffle the deck then it would be happening.
Hydrogen has some of the same problems electric charging would have, like where do you build filling stations? But then it's compounded by the logistics of hydrogen storage, inability to charge at home, hydrogen cannot be transported by pipeline, and much of it comes out of the ground as a byproduct of the oil and gas we're extracting for our cars and other oil-based enterprises.
Hydrogen can effuse through many materials. You'd likely need to install new tanks in order to properly store it; it also needs to be stored under high pressure. Then there is the issue of transferring it to vehicles - you'd want air-tight transfer lines. Perhaps it's not impossible, but it isn't as straightforward as it initially may seem.Is hydrogen storage that big of a problem? We already store huge tanks of petrol and diesel under filling stations.
Yeah, we don't deliver by pipeline to gas stations, but it may move through a pipeline from the refinery to a centralized storage location, where it is then transferred to a truck for final delivery.We dont generally (at least round here anyway) deliver petrol to filling stations by pipe, we use delivery tankers. That would be the same with hydrogen.
Put chargers on the street. Put chargers in parking garages. Build all new houses with solar roof and have 240V standard on every home garage and every new building construction.In Europe on street parking in cities is the norm.
That's the same as electric vehicles. Making batteries is pretty dirty. Hydrogen is as clean as your primary electricity generation.
Put chargers on the street.
The chargers reset when unplugged, so there's really no concern about someone else charging at my expense.This doesn't work. You end up with cables going to every car. It's a trip and fire hazard. Plus people are going to unplug your car and get you to pay for charging theirs.
I honestly csnt see where battery has an advantage over hydrogen.
Well maybe if you live out in the middle of nowhere and own a massive solar or wind farm, but for the other part of the population hydrogen seems to solve all the problems of EVs.
There’s a concern about going out in the morning and finding out that someone unplugged your car to charge theirs and you have no juice!The chargers reset when unplugged, so there's really no concern about someone else charging at my expense.
There’s a concern about going out in the morning and finding out that someone unplugged your car to charge theirs and you have no juice!
Tesla does. Not everyone else, though.Your car can't be unplugged while charging. The vehicle locks the connecter preventing removal until you're ready.
Tesla does. Not everyone else, though.
My Bolt doesn't lock.BMW, VW, Nissan do AFAIK. Nobody can unplug my i3 till I'm ready.
They showed us the password to the tunnel elevatorAwesome. I want one even more now!
Awesome. I want one even more now!