Tesla Cybertruck

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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,705
5,458
136
V2L, V2H, V2G?

V2L = Vehicle-to-Load (your EV can be used to power appliances or to charge other EV's, similar to how a portable gas generator works)

V2H = Vehicle-to-Home (your EV can be used as a "whole-house battery" to power a home or business)

V2G = Vehicle-to-Grid (your EV sends energy to support the grid, such as for off-peak hours, high grid load situations, or power outages)

Typically, EV's only ingest electricity, but thanks to modern technology, they can now output electricity (called "bi-directional charging") & act as an electric generator! For example, one of the features of V2L is V2V (Vehicle-to-vehicle) charging, so if you have an F-150 EV, you can charge up another EV, such as a Mach-E. You're basically siphoning your own battery into another electric vehicle, which is pretty cool for emergency situations:



They even did one experiment where they charged up five cars at once from an F-150 EV!




When would you really use V2V charging? Probably almost never lol. But is IS a risk due to battery capacity issues! Electric vehicles suffer from a multitude of issues:

1. Range limitations due to physical battery capacity limitations (iirc the max range is Lucid Air's 512-mile battery, which has a base price of a whopping $140k)
2. Real-world estimate reductions (due to things like driving at highway speeds, using the HVAC system, etc.)
3. Charging-speed hassles (even the 15-minute "quick charge" features on modern electric cars are a REALLY long time when you're busy, tired, or have kids in the car)
4. Active lying on the manufacturer's part (see link below)
5. Phantom or "vampire" power loss (excessive standby power drain has been particularly noted by Rivian owners)

For example, Tesla has been accused of intentional inflation of in-dash range-meter projections, as well as corporate-sponsored diversions of service calls for those issues:


AAA now has mobile electric charging for people who run out of juice on the road or in parking lots: (for example, a lot of people who park their cars at airport parking lots for trips will come back to a dead EV due to vampire power loss)



V2L also features standard 120V outlets. The F-150 lightning EV has three 120V locations: (there's also an available 240V outlet in the bed on the 9.6kW model)

1. Frunk
2. Cab
3. Bed

Which is pretty cool for on-site construction projects:



The bed has four 2.4kW AC power outlets for a total of up to 9.6kW of power:



Which lets you go camping or tailgating in a fancy way!


Munro goes to town on the Lighting's neato system:


There is a growing list of EV's that come standard with V2L capabilities:


The story starts to get more fun when you add in Bidirectional Inverter-Chargers:



And for on-grid & off-grid applications:



V2H lets you use your EV as an emergency home generator by using bi-directional charging to power your house. Note that the F-150 starts at $50k & a whole-home gas generator goes for around $10k to $25k installed. That way you can use your electric chainsaw to clear out your fallen tree limbs in the middle of the night with the lights on!



Just look how smug you can be when the power goes out! Note that only the F-150 Lightnig Pro starts at $50k; the actual base price for the 240-mile standard-range battery consumer model has a base $55k & upgrading to the 320-mile extended-range battery immediately jumps the price up to $70k, with the fully-loaded Platinum model coming in at over $90k:



But seriously, that is a pretty cool feature:


V2G isn't really a thing yet afaik. The basic idea is that consumers can feed power back from their EV to the grid to get paid, to handle things like high loads (ex. Texas A/C power draws in the summer heat), and for area power outages. They can pull from things like:

1. Residential solar panels
2. Stationary home batteries (ex. Tesla Powerwalls)
3. Bi-direction V2G-enabled electric cars that are plugged in (you can set a buffer so that your vehicle doesn't get so drained you can't drive it anywhere)

Tesla will be adding V2G to their cars in 2025 (supposedly...you know Elon's timeline lol), but they also want to sell Powerwalls, so they're kind of dragging their feet on it haha. I mean, using your car as a house battery is kind of an expensive, first-world perk, but at the same time, given how rare it is for the power to go out, it IS nice to be able to plug your EV that you already have in to power your house for a day or two, rather than spending tens of thousands of dollars on a whole-house generator! Although I have a simple gas generator & it was only a few hundred bucks from Home Depot & does fine for the once or twice a year my power goes out lol. A nice future would be:

1. All EV's have bidirectional charging (power appliances, charge up other vehicles, power your house, feed the grid as needed)
2. All homes have Powerwall-style battery systems & solar panel systems for hyper-local power redundancy for residential applications & for backfeeding to the the area's grid for as-needed support
3. All EV's adopt Tesla's Supercharging standard (there are more than 12,000 Tesla Superchargers in the United States & Canada and more than 45,000 worldwide, and more & more manufacturers are coming to terms with Tesla to integrate Supercharging into their vehicles, including Ford), so that we just have a single, high-speed standard for everyone to use

Is all of this stuff practical? I mean...kinda! It's certainly neat to have! It would be really fun to have electric charging available on camping trips, although like the F-150's max range is only 320 miles, so unless you have a charger nearby, it'd be a bit scary to run out of juice in the middle of the woods because you wanted to watch Netflix on your camping TV lol. I've also seen the onboard chargers used to charge things like electric bikes, which is a pretty good use case. So for now, these V2L/V2V/V2H/V2G features are kind of "nice to have". Although prices ARE starting to come down, with some EV's dipping below the $30k price point these days, so I think it will get a little more practical as time goes on!
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,444
9,348
136
Meh, it's a lifestyle truck. It's like buying a Corvette, you don't buy it because it's practical!

My main desire is a 500-mile battery pack. Hoping they offer a 620-mile option!
How long would a 620 mile battery take to charge on a home outlet?
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
24,419
5,852
136
it's true, that man an almost michael keaton level of smugness

Just look how smug you can be when the power goes out! Note that only the F-150 Lightnig Pro starts at $50k; the actual base price for the 240-mile standard-range battery consumer model has a base $55k & upgrading to the 320-mile extended-range battery immediately jumps the price up to $70k, with the fully-loaded Platinum model coming in at over $90k:

 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,095
21,209
136
Considering how shitty Elon is, and how that truck looks inside and out, it just has instantly become the DbagTruck.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,705
5,458
136
How long would a 620 mile battery take to charge on a home outlet?

The 2022 Lucid Air Dream Range EV has the longest range of any electric car that I'm aware of, clocking in at 520 miles, which takes 13 hours to charge on a 240V residential charger. They also perform pretty close to the EPA estimate, falling only 4% short in a real-world 70mph test, reaching 500 real-world miles:


Notes:

1) 500 miles divided by 70mph = over 7 hours of highway driving

2) 13 hours of charging is a long time, but (1) most people won't use up the entire battery's range every day & (2) most people come home & charge for a few hours before going to bed, so if you work a 9 to 5 job, you'll have plenty of opportunities to fully charge up even from a dead battery on a daily basis (assuming you're not doing long road trips or towing all the time!)

3) Under special circumstances: if you (1) have a late-model Tesla, (2) are lucky enough to be near a modern Tesla Supercharger (V3 250kW), and (3) aren't sharing a charging stall with anyone so you don't have to split the power (and hopefully, there's no waiting line!), then you can do spiffy things like charge up a Model S up to 200 miles in just 15 minutes

For me:

1) I get maybe 300 miles of range in my current ride using gas; however, there are more than 1,000 gas stations available in my state.

2) I timed an empty tank refuel job on my ICE vehicle. Under 3 minutes from a totally empty tank.

3) Sometimes I'm stuck in traffic for hours or have to drive a far distance on-call, or drive to multiple client locations each day. I don't want to have to monkey around with electric range anxiety or wait in line for a charger or share a charging stall & get reduced power or go out of my way to find a charger or have to deal with an older Supercharger or slower charging system or broken charging system (there are a surprising number of broken public EV chargers!), so the battery is really a mental safety net to avoid any potential hassles of using my car for my work commute in addition to my personal errands.

I told my wife that I'd buy an EV as soon as they came out with a 500-mile battery. The Cybertruck is horrifically ugly, yet somewhat endearing (Stockholm syndrome, baby!), so I put my order in a few years ago. The Lucid Air Dream Range (limited to 520 units!) has the class-topic 520-mile battery, but also clocks in at $169k lol. The base Cybertruck is supposed to be $39k (ha, ha) & also offer a 500-mile option (with a rumored 620-mile option). I'd imagine they're going to start at around $50k base at LEAST. It'd be cool if they offered a quad-motor 620-mile variant, but that would probably be a $100k base pricetag, at minimum, at which the car payment would exceed my rent LOL.

Plus, I certainly don't want to beta-test the first production units (been there, done that with my previous Jeep!). Tesla's production cycle cuts the average car refresh down from a year to 6 months, so I'd want to wait at least 6 months before getting one. However, I couldn't wrap my head around the design initially, so I waited to put my reservation in, so I'm like number one million in line right now haha.
 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
8,126
5,151
146
I can't wait to start seeing them around here with lifted suspensions and those stupid offset tires...
 
Reactions: Kaido

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,705
5,458
136
If I was a billionaire, I too would be wearing Cybershoes...

 
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