My point was and always has been you are letting your personal bias interfere with your ability to remain objective. I don't blame you for that though. A lot of people are like you. Too many actually.
My point was and always has been you are letting your personal bias interfere with your ability to remain objective. I don't blame you for that though. A lot of people are like you. Too many actually.I don't have to get back to you for any damn thing. You're really going to tell me the actual point you're going with is that because I'm not a car geek I can't have a valid opinion on a launch of a vehicle? When they say you don't have a leg to stand on, that's the kind of argument they're talking about.
I'm sorry if that I just geek out with my friends about hybrid SUVs and rivians and a few other electric cars I love, and airstreams, I can't have an opinion on this subject that's valid. Even if the above about me wasn't true you still wouldn't have a point.
Get back to me when you can actually answer any of the reasonable questions I've been asking you the last few posts and you've been avoiding.
Except you won't answer about all the data and information and posts and Edmunds CT breaking and the recalls and the tons of articles and information online in general about this disastrous launch, not just business-wise for Tesla, but also with all the issues surrounding it, all saying the same thing as me.My point was and always has been you are letting your personal bias interfere with your ability to remain objective. I don't blame you for that though. A lot of people are like you. Too many actually.
Bro wut? This is the car forum. Why you posting shit like this in the car forum?? Oh I know.....because you can't set your personal bias aside and just talk cars because you ain't a fucking car guy.in addition to the above - I'm just curious, do you believe Elon, who has personally been involved in stoking the violence in the UK right now based off total right-wing misinformation, and has gone full MAGA to boot, is a shitty person? Or do you think a lot of us are just giving him a hard time?
I'm just trying to figure out why you won't answer simple questions, are being extremely obtuse and dishonest in your weird cultist like behavior about the CT. Elon is a good motivator why, so it's a fair question.Bro wut? This is the car forum. Why you posting shit like this in the car forum?? Oh I know.....because you can't set your personal bias aside and just talk cars because you ain't a fucking car guy.
Yeah I'm the one with a weird cultist like behavior. Did you ever question yours?I'm just trying to figure out why you won't answer simple questions, are being extremely obtuse and dishonest in your weird cultist like behavior about the CT. Elon is a good motivator why, so it's a fair question.
Funny you still won't answer my other question. I mean do you think you are fooling anyone?
Nope not here. I know how I feel about Elon and I don't sit here and trash his other cars. Again you refused to answer my simple questions because you have no point. You're acting like it's just me criticizing the Cyber truck and everybody else in the world is not, or you're dismissing the tons of valid criticism the Cyber truck has gone from journalists, and from regular folks, that they're all in a cult too I guess.Yeah I'm the one with a weird cultist like behavior. Did you ever question yours?
2 million pre-orders for the Cyberstuck, and you can already buy one with no wait direct from the website. Ok sure some people wanted a cheaper one which was promised so backed out. But out of 2 million pre-orders? What have they sold like 6,000?.
Tesla originally promised a single-motor Cybertruck model with 250 miles of range on a single charge for $39,900, a dual-motor version capable of 300 miles for $49,900, and a top-tier triple-motor one with an almost unbelievable 500 miles of range for $69,900.
I did mention in my comment about the price point and that took buyers out of the pool. But out of 2 million? That's a sad ratio regardless.To be fair, the pre-order prices were:
The $50k model is now $100k. The $70k model is now $120,000. That's a $50,000 price hike. I'm on Ecoboost money, man!!
I did mention in my comment about the price point and that took buyers out of the pool. But out of 2 million? That's a sad ratio regardless.
That's a very misleading statement as there were three levels of pre orders, the lowest one only has 250 min range. The 70k one was the one with a range of 500. You need to take that into account and It's really unfair to consider all 2 million pre orders as for the cheapest one.I dunno if those two million people have an extra 50 g's lying around tho haha. Average new car payment is $750. $50k AWD would be $834/mo on a zero-percent (hah) 60-month loan. Now it's $1,667/mo. It went from new car to apartment rent money territory lol.
Sorry, but you can only fit so many cars in a given space. Something has to give. One of the ways we can control allocated space is by charging for the space.
I don't see the people in much of NYC complaining that they don't have a car, and that's not a commune. I also know plenty of people in other major cities that don't have cars, and they wouldn't describe their living situation as "a commune".
That's a very misleading statement as there were three levels of pre orders, the lowest one only has 250 min range. The 70k one was the one with a range of 500. You need to take that into account and It's really unfair to consider all 2 million pre orders as for the cheapest one.
The facts remain, if you don't take things out of context, this was a disaster of a launch.
Finally got around to watching this and that was actually pretty good, they didn't really bash it or anything, they're just being realistic and putting it to some realistic tests that you'd use a truck for. The truck actually did decently well for what they were using it for. But their other trucks also cost a fraction of it and have been kept on the road for decades.
They all seem like fun people to hang out with tbh. Just genuine working class people living the dream but who also worked for it.
I was actually considering the reverse & assuming the orders were for the higher-tier models:
$50k AWD = now $100k
$70k Beast = now $120k
Both are $50,000 price leaps. In my case:
$40k Base = doesn't currently exist as an option
$40k Base = supposedly will have a $60k option next year, which is a $20,000 price jump (aka an entire base Ecoboost LOL)
$40k Base = my reservation is currently available for the higher-tier model, so the only available option is a $60,000 price hike
The Whistlin' Diesel video is a pretty telling video of the quality of the launch edition. I bet they'd sell a zillion at the $40,000 price point anyway, but that's no longer economically feasible, plus it would cannibalize the 3 & Y market. I dunno about anyone else, but for the Cybertruck price hike costs, I'd rather just buy a second car as a backup & toy lol.
Any time I find myself in a big city like Toronto I always feel "nice place to visit, but wouldn't want to live here". There are certain aspects of big cities you won't get in smaller areas and there are things to see that you might not get to see or do otherwise and it's a different experience, but once that novelty wears off, I'm ready to go home. The noise, crowds, smells, pollution, lack of nature and feeling "ungrounded" if that makes sense all take it's toll.
I'll take small city life where I can own a house with yard, and see stars from my driveway. Heck even my small city feels a bit crowded at times and has it's growing issues like increasing crime rate etc. Rural life (like in that video I just quoted actually) is really the pinnacle of living. Big properties, lot of toys and room for activities, and just all out freedom. That's living. Couldn't pay me enough to live in a big city.
People with lower incomes are actually less likely to own a car, particularly if they live in an urban environment.So essentially punish those with less income? That still does not remove the ridiculous burden it imposes on the richer citizens, so it Just Won't Do!
The world is full of tradeoffs. People juggle these considerations when they are choosing where to live: price, location, amenities, size, etc. Just because YOU value something doesn't mean OTHER PEOPLE value the same thing. And heck, if you have enough money, can buy a single family lot in the middle of a big city. Plus, there is also nothing wrong with being a life-long renter. Plenty of reasons to rent versus buying. Also plenty of reasons to live in a city, including saving thousands of dollars per year owning and maintaining personal vehicles. Plenty of reasons to live in a suburb too, if that's your bag.What does "you don't see", mean exactly? Have you done a poll of sane/normal people? Are you making up BS?
If most of them could snap their fingers and have things like a bigger back yard, a car to drive, and other amenities, without any detractions, they would. What it is instead, is a choice of what to sacrifice for their idealism of living the urban life, and as I've already stated previously, most people wise up as they get a little more time/experience in that environment, and choose to abandon it, if they can afford to move and own a home, since the high rent area can leave them little savings.
Are you sure about that? Where is your data to say people don't want to live in NYC as seniors?Practically nobody wishes to live in NYC as a senior, except those who ended up there and are glass-is-half-full type personalities who try to see the brighter side of things. Younger yes, to get a taste of what the excitement is about, but then it becomes more burden than anything else, when someone is no longer desperate to socialize to find a mate.
Bully for you. If you don't like city life, that's fine. Live where you want to live. But for those in cities and inner-ring suburbs, people should be able to densify their property if they want. And if you want to buy a single-family home with a big yard, buy a single-family home with a big yard. I don't want to stop you from doing that.I have lived in a dense major city environment. The novelty wore off, but we haven't even addressed the elephant in the room which is that many people enjoy having the things they worked for, not just their needs but their toys as well, and enjoy the freedom of driving, and as soon as some ignorant fool trys to suggest that they should give up what they want, then it becomes a more broad topic like, okay then, let's look at what you value and decide you shouldn't have that, either. I am pretty sure that anything you value that is a material thing, I could make an argument against, if I had my panties in a knot like a couple people in this topic, one of which I've blocked already but clearly I need to block more.
I don't want to control anyone. I just want people to have freedom to do more with their property instead of having NIMBY neighbors tell them what they can and can't build on their property. And I want to make it easier for my neighbors and future neighbors to be able to afford to live in cool neighborhoods instead of having prices driven to the sky by artificial restrictions imposed by local governments. I also just want people to have the freedom to safely get from point A to point B, and America's love affair with unnecessarily large and heavy vehicles runs counter to that philosophy.It's very simple. If you want to control what someone else does, you are treading on their freedom. Your short sighted argument seems fine to you, until it happens to you.
You do realize this thing covid happens and car prices went through the roof right? Nobody was expecting the same prices now maybe not as high but by the time the Cyber stuck came out, we lived in a new reality at price points. Now I do agree definitely people simply could not afford it now. But if you think out of 2 million people it was 99.99% of them then I got a bridge to sell you.
I suspect they ran into substantial manufacturing difficulties, coupled with some good old initial underpricing to get people's attention.I mean, even the Ecoboost Mustang got a price hike due to COVID & currently starts at $32,000. The 2019 starting price was $27.5k. That's a somewhat reasonable price hike over time (due to inflation) & accounting for COVID supply-chain price hikes. But a $50,000 price hike is literally double the original reservation price of the AWD Cybertruck. Seems...excessive, lol.
I suspect they ran into substantial manufacturing difficulties, coupled with some good old initial underpricing to get people's attention.
By the way the big price point increases are part of the whole failed disastrous launch by the way. But everybody should know by now that musk over promises and under delivers .I mean either way you look at it it's a disastrous launch.Oh for sure. The classic bait & switch, haha! The hitch issue in the Whistlin' Diesel video is worrying, although it also looks like he may have broken it earlier when going off those giant concrete tubes, so maybe that assessment wasn't entirely accurate. The door-slam thing was pretty crazy tho...
I still wouldn't mind getting one, just not for the current asking prices. I think it's cool!