Tesla driver killed in auto-pilot collision

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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,482
1,673
136
The funny thing is after every update, there will be people who say that they've noticed improvements but then other people will complain about something that's gotten worse. I suspect people who go directly from an Oct 2015 build to a June 2016 build will barely notice the difference simply because the hardware is the main limiter.

That hasn't been the experience of drivers using the system. No the hardware isn't the main limiter it is the software.
 

monkeydelmagico

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2011
3,961
145
106
Even if we could cut that number in half through automated driving, that would be amazing.

I think your expectations are too low. Automated driving properly implemented will cut the vehicular collision death rate to near zero.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
I think your expectations are too low. Automated driving properly implemented will cut the vehicular collision death rate to near zero.

One of the articles pointed out that had the semi-truck had a smart pilot system, the cars could have communicated their positions to avoid the crash. That would be really nice to have in the future.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
I wonder if this particular intersection had poor visibility or was on the crest of a hill. In other words, was his the perfect accident that you or I would have gotten into? How much at fault was the truck driver?
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Auto-pilot is being scapedgoated here.

Truck driver was at fault. Tesla driver didn't even see the truck.

This could have happened to any driver.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
If I've missed it, has it been reported how fast the Tesla was going?
 

MixMasterTang

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2001
3,167
176
106
I don't see why everyone is blaming the truck driver and automatically giving the Tesla driver a free pass without knowing more details. A truck pulling out into the intersection is generally very slow but it was pulled out far enough that the car went underneath the trailer without braking at all. I found find it very hard to imagine that an attentive driver at the wheel wouldn't have seen the truck like many are claiming.
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,660
198
106
Unfortunately due to lighting conditions neither the driver nor the auto-pilot system detected the truck ahead

I am curious, how was it determined that dead driver didn't see the truck? Is it not possible he saw the truck making the turn and assumed the Tesla was going to stop?

-KeithP
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
I am curious, how was it determined that dead driver didn't see the truck? Is it not possible he saw the truck making the turn and assumed the Tesla was going to stop?

-KeithP

I would assume that their analytics can pick up when the driver engages the brake vs. electronic braking from the auto-pilot.

If he did not brake one have to assume he did not see it. Or again, I ask...what speed was he going and was there even time to reasonably react?

How fast does tesla let the auto-pilot work at?
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101


I'm going to blame the driver of the Tesla for this happening. I mean, there are videos of Tesla drivers sleeping at the wheel while in traffic, and the truck driver says that he heard the Harry Potter movie playing.

On a morbid note, I bet the driver was decapitated.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
I don't see why everyone is blaming the truck driver and automatically giving the Tesla driver a free pass without knowing more details. A truck pulling out into the intersection is generally very slow but it was pulled out far enough that the car went underneath the trailer without braking at all. I found find it very hard to imagine that an attentive driver at the wheel wouldn't have seen the truck like many are claiming.

Even if the truck was in the right lane & did a coasting turn, it couldn't have been going that fast because of the size & weight. The police blotter said charges are pending, so it might have been that he just tried to make the turn too quickly & created an unavoidable collision. Either way, terrible situation.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
We know that AP did not see the truck, because it took no braking action at all.
Even after going under the truck, the Tesla apparently also struck a utility pole. So AP also did not avoid that.

Hard to understand how the Tesla driver could miss the truck.
The only way is to be paying full attention to something other than the road.

Hard to understand how the truck driver could have heard whatever was playing inside the Tesla, let alone recognize it as a Harry Potter movie.
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,660
198
106
I would assume that their analytics can pick up when the driver engages the brake vs. electronic braking from the auto-pilot.

If he did not brake one have to assume he did not see it.

To clarify a bit, I was questioning the assumption that the driver couldn't see the truck because of the lighting conditions. That just didn't make sense to me. There could be a variety of reasons why the driver didn't notice the truck.

However, it seems to me there are possibilities for not braking other than not seeing the truck. For instance, maybe he was in the middle of doing something other than driving in his vehicle, noticed the truck turning but left the braking up to the Tesla because he didn't want to stop what he was doing.

In short, if the driver was under the belief that the car was going to handle the situation, maybe he didn't see the need to intervene.

Of course, maybe he didn't see it, not because it was hard for a human to see, but because he was asleep or not paying attention.

Also, I am not saying the accident was the car's fault. It the accident investigators determine the accident was unavoidable then it would be the truck driver's fault. It the accident could have been avoided, it would seem both drivers would share responsibility.

-KeithP
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Interesting, MobileEye, Tesla's vision systems partner, has commented on the type of collision:

http://electrek.co/2016/07/01/tesla-autopilot-mobileye-fatal-crash-comment/

"We have read the account of what happened in this case. Today's collision avoidance technology, or Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) is defined as rear-end collision avoidance, and is designed specifically for that. This incident involved a laterally crossing vehicle, which current-generation AEB systems are not designed to actuate upon. Mobileye systems will include Lateral Turn Across Path (LTAP) detection capabilities beginning in 2018, and the Euro NCAP safety ratings will include this beginning in 2020."

That's the thing with technology...it's purpose-built. They didn't have LTAP, just AEB for rear-end collisions. Even though it has Autopilot, it's not a universally-safe safety feature for 100% of situations.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
Interesting, MobileEye, Tesla's vision systems partner, has commented on the type of collision:

http://electrek.co/2016/07/01/tesla-autopilot-mobileye-fatal-crash-comment/



That's the thing with technology...it's purpose-built. They didn't have LTAP, just AEB for rear-end collisions. Even though it has Autopilot, it's not a universally-safe safety feature for 100% of situations.

So basically they are vulnerable to any T-Bone situations? I regularly drive on country roads that have 4 way intersections. People will blow through those regularly without stopping. You have to be on lookout to see if they are slowing down and use your judgement to see if you need to be ready to break.

I assume the auto detect tech wouldn't pick up on that type of situation?
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,482
1,673
136
So basically they are vulnerable to any T-Bone situations? I regularly drive on country roads that have 4 way intersections. People will blow through those regularly without stopping. You have to be on lookout to see if they are slowing down and use your judgement to see if you need to be ready to break.

I assume the auto detect tech wouldn't pick up on that type of situation?

The current Tesla driver assist system is best used when travelling on divided highways with no cross traffic.
 
Feb 24, 2001
14,550
4
81
Sounds like the car went under the trailer, sliced the roof off completely, went a few hundred feet, and hit a telephone pole before stopping in a yard. I wonder what the programming is for that...can the car detect that it became a convertible? Does it sense that the driver isn't touching the wheel & safely pulls over? The risk this runs is that the car becomes a 4,500-pound unmanned missile on the streets. What happens if you have a heart attack while driving solo, does the car become a coffin traveling down the road by itself? Creepy to think about.

Wondered the same thing. Surely somethings keeps the car from driving home and pulling up in his driveway at his wife's horror of a missing head.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
It would take me a long time to get comfortable enough with self-driving cars to trust them enough to be able to tune out to what is going on around me. I doubt we'll ever see that technology on motorcycles so as long as I keep riding I'll probably always have that mindset.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
Hard to understand how the truck driver could have heard whatever was playing inside the Tesla, let alone recognize it as a Harry Potter movie.

Would you not run and go check on the driver if that was your truck? He probably say his phone still playing the movie when he went to see if he was alive.

I 100% expected asleep, texting, browsing reddit, or something like this. Its pretty much exactly why google wants to go straight to level 4.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Had a hard time visualizing what happened, till I saw this.


That helps a ton. I thought it was the other way around.

The driver of the rig has more a chance of being culpable in light of this IMO, since he didn't have right of way.
 

Pandasaurus

Member
Aug 19, 2012
196
2
76
All points regarding the "failure" of Auto-pilot and the responsibility of the truck driver aside... HOW do you manage to not see a tractor trailer blocking the entire highway in front of you?!

Wait... I saw people earlier this week who missed six large, bright yellow, reflective signs with bold, black print stating "RIGHT TWO LANES EXIT ONLY, MERGE LEFT", and crossed the gore point while braking into traffic to avoid exiting. Forget I asked.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
17
81
i don't get how people blame the truck driver much. i mean i've driven on a divided freeway before. if you see a truck starting to move, which would be more than enough time to slow down, you would slow down. maybe the truck driver mis judged how much time he had to make the turn, maybe something slowed him from making the turn that fast. but this happens ALL THE TIME. this happens with normal people in normal cars at every intersectionevery day.

its not like the truck just magically teleported in front of the tesla giving no time to stop. any normal driver would have seen it far away. and even if the truck part was white, the front of the semi probably wasnt.

the guy was an idiot and not even paying attention and watching harry potter. he died because he trusted a system that is not autonomous driving that tesla stupidly calls "autopilot" when it should really be called lane assist and intelligent cruise , or some thing that doesnt suggest it does everything for you (mercedes has a similar system and its called distronic on the new cars).

based on the guy's youtube vids he put blind faith in a system that oversold itself. so much blind faith watching a movie in the car and not paying attention led him to be dead
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Would you not run and go check on the driver if that was your truck? He probably say his phone still playing the movie when he went to see if he was alive.

I 100% expected asleep, texting, browsing reddit, or something like this. Its pretty much exactly why google wants to go straight to level 4.

Police confirm DVD player found in Tesla Autopilot wreck:

https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/01/police-confirm-dvd-player-found-in-tesla-autopilot-wreck/

The Florida Highway Patrol confirmed to Reuters that a portable DVD player was found in the wreckage. The driver of the truck that was crossing the highway when it was struck by the Model S told the Associated Press that the driver was playing a Harry Potter movie at the time. He said he could he could hear it playing after the car hit a telephone pole further down the road.

People in the comments are quick to criticize this, but really, c'mon - what's the point of a self-driving car if you don't do something else instead of driving?
 
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