Tesla Motors death watch

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AViking

Platinum Member
Sep 12, 2013
2,264
1
0
Yeah one video causing a downgrade and pretty large drop in stock price? If anything that just says the stock was overvalued.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
This is what makes me want to buy a Tesla:

1. Giant fire

2. "...the driver escaped unharmed"

Yes, please. Safety++
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
From Tesla:

http://jalopnik.com/this-is-what-fiery-tesla-model-s-death-looks-like-1440143525

“Yesterday, a Model S collided with a large metallic object in the middle of the road, causing significant damage to the vehicle. The car’s alert system signaled a problem and instructed the driver to pull over safely, which he did. No one was injured, and the sole occupant had sufficient time to exit the vehicle safely and call the authorities. Subsequently, a fire caused by the substantial damage sustained during the collision was contained to the front of the vehicle thanks to the design and construction of the vehicle and battery pack. All indications are that the fire never entered the interior cabin of the car. It was extinguished on-site by the fire department.”
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
You bought AMD at the peak didn't you :ninja:

Nope. But have already cleared $100k in stock profits this year. Again, are you in high school or college? B/c you're as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to evaluating companies.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
Yeah one video causing a downgrade and pretty large drop in stock price? If anything that just says the stock was overvalued.

It really just means people are stupid. Remember when Walmart stock took a hit because of some scandal in Mexico, resulting in maybe a 1 time fine and no effect on overall profits?

Nope. But have already cleared $100k in stock profits this year. Again, are you in high school or college? B/c you're as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to evaluating companies.
So you're saying free cash flow and only buying profitable companies is foolish? Tell us more, professor.
discounted cash flow model
 
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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
So you're saying free cash flow and only buying profitable companies is foolish? Tell us more, professor.
discounted cash flow model

No, what I'm saying is that you're clueless and have zero clue what you're doing. Stick to your imaginary portfolio.

When you compare Tesla to McDonalds or the present AMD, you're still in HS or College and don't have a clue. This thread is proof of it.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
So, at my last fillup:

33.352 litres for 596.1 km. That works out to 8.8 gallons for 370.4 miles, or 44 mpg, with mostly city driving.

5.6 L / 100 Km... Pretty good. I'm going to guess that you do mostly city driving though. I've driven company Camry/Fusion Hybrids and regularly do about 5 L / 100 km with mostly highway driving. I've done 4.5 L / 100 km in a 2007 Prius.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,709
11
81
The company is literally borrowing money to make the minimum payments on its debt. It would be like I make $50,000 per year at my job, but food and shelter and medical adds up to $60,000. Since I'm running at a net loss, I borrow $100,000 from the bank and use that money to make the minimum payments on $100,000 debt. The bank statement says I'm sitting on a lot of cash, and I easily have enough to make the payments for a few years, but eventually I'll run out of money and go bankrupt.

If you want to equate it to personal finance, this is more like earning $15k/yr as a college student, taking out $25k in student loans, and using it to pay for food and tuition.

They are investing in the ability to earn money in the future.

They are borrowing and selling equity to buy plant and equipment to ramp up production. This is a good thing to do when your stock is pretty much constantly sold out.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,753
1,311
126
5.6 L / 100 Km... Pretty good. I'm going to guess that you do mostly city driving though. I've driven company Camry/Fusion Hybrids and regularly do about 5 L / 100 km with mostly highway driving. I've done 4.5 L / 100 km in a 2007 Prius.
Yes, mostly city driving, as I said in my post.

I never do 4.5 L/100 km unless I'm really trying, but I don't like that type of gas-sipping driving because it takes longer to get anywhere. My yearly average including winter (which has noticeably higher gas usage) is well over 6 L/100 km.

I find in the city if I accelerate quickly from a light to (just above) the speed limit on large roads, I will be able to make the next light. If I don't, the next light will often turn to red before I get there. It seems the city has designed the stoplight timing to keep traffic flowing at near the speed limit on the main roads.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
Yes, mostly city driving, as I said in my post.

I never do 4.5 L/100 km unless I'm really trying, but I don't like that type of gas-sipping driving because it takes longer to get anywhere. My yearly average including winter (which has noticeably higher gas usage) is well over 6 L/100 km.

I find in the city if I accelerate quickly from a light to (just above) the speed limit on large roads, I will be able to make the next light. If I don't, the next light will often turn to red before I get there. It seems the city has designed the stoplight timing to keep traffic flowing at near the speed limit on the main roads.

Woops.

I gave up on driving a while ago (yay, bus), but when I still did, I did the "gas saving" style of driving with relatively light acceleration and steady braking in advance so I didn't need to re-accelerate as much.

On the other hand, when I wanted to screw around, I just floored it until I got to 15 over and kept going with everyone well behind me. Regardless, the Civic I drove did an atrocious 10-11 L /100 km in mostly city driving. So many damn street lights turning red + stop'n'go traffic -- wonder why I gave up on driving.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
If you want to equate it to personal finance, this is more like earning $15k/yr as a college student, taking out $25k in student loans, and using it to pay for food and tuition.

They are investing in the ability to earn money in the future.

They are borrowing and selling equity to buy plant and equipment to ramp up production. This is a good thing to do when your stock is pretty much constantly sold out.

I agree that Tesla is doing the right thing. When prices are up, sell shares. It's way better than borrowing money. What's different is that this company's shares are extremely expensive before the company has proven to be profitable. For the other 99.999999% of companies it works the other way around. Shares from companies like Apple or Microsoft or junior mining companies are virtually worthless in the beginning because investing in a startup company is very high risk. Tesla really should be trading similar to something like AMD.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,709
11
81
I agree that Tesla is doing the right thing. When prices are up, sell shares. It's way better than borrowing money. What's different is that this company's shares are extremely expensive before the company has proven to be profitable. For the other 99.999999% of companies it works the other way around. Shares from companies like Apple or Microsoft or junior mining companies are virtually worthless in the beginning because investing in a startup company is very high risk. Tesla really should be trading similar to something like AMD.

But they're not in startup stages. They have a product that sells well and gets incredible safety ratings. They have a small yet solid amount of production. They have proven demand. This is purely a scale up issue.

They were a startup back when the roadster was a prototype.

Their problem isn't an unproven product, it's inability to make enough cars.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Was watching a documentary last night, found it interesting that Enron rose ~500% during its heyday even though it had horrible accounting (understatement) and Tesla has risen like... 440%?
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,709
11
81
I agree that Tesla is doing the right thing. When prices are up, sell shares. It's way better than borrowing money. What's different is that this company's shares are extremely expensive before the company has proven to be profitable. For the other 99.999999% of companies it works the other way around. Shares from companies like Apple or Microsoft or junior mining companies are virtually worthless in the beginning because investing in a startup company is very high risk. Tesla really should be trading similar to something like AMD.

Not necessarily. Debt is dirt cheap right now. Equity is almost always expensive.

The difference is you want to sell equity when cash flow is an issue, or when debt would be expensive (ie, for a startup).

And the shares early on in those companies aren't worthless. High risk, sure, but they are also high reward.
 

Auric

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
9,596
2
71
Was watching a documentary last night, found it interesting that Enron rose ~500% during its heyday even though it had horrible accounting (understatement) and Tesla has risen like... 440%?

At the height of the mania, so-called professional analysts were recommending Enron as an "internet play" on account of owning rights of way with potential to lay network cables. :awe:
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
That guy probably shorted the stock and then just put his car on fire and have his friend film it. very clever indeed!
Hmm where did I see this before?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwh07fYNdCY

Looking into Tesla's financials - October 2, 2013
Among the questioners is Gradient Analytics, a small Arizona research firm. It started coverage of Tesla earlier this year, and promptly issued a report that gave the firm an “F” grade for its quality of earnings.

“Though we love the car and the passion of the firm and its CEO, we continue to be concerned about the economics of Tesla’s business and the quality of its earnings … we continue to believe that Tesla is the most dangerous stock one could possibly trade, whether long or short,” says analyst Donn Vickrey, author of the report.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I gave up on driving a while ago (yay, bus), but when I still did, I did the "gas saving" style of driving with relatively light acceleration and steady braking in advance so I didn't need to re-accelerate as much.

My slightly more aggressive style of driving won't let me accelerate terribly slowly like that. It isn't for some silly Need for Speed, but rather that I don't like to be that guy that slows traffic down. Traffic can be really bad here... especially when people think driving is like a staggered race (wait so many seconds until you go). I've been at lights at maybe 10-20 cars back from the front, and I didn't start moving until maybe 30-60 seconds after the light turned green.

Although, one thing I try to do is to understand the AI that controls the traffic lights. If I travel through a light enough and gather enough data, I can usually predict when a light will start changing over from green to red and vice-versa. For example, if I'm on the left-turn lane at the end of the road that I live on, and I turn into eastbound traffic, I will not accelerate if I see someone at the next intersection. Why? Because unless it's after around 8PM, that light will always go red. Unless those people take forever to move, which does happen sometimes (not a surprise after what I said above ), I usually don't ever have to stop. This does seem to bug people behind me that don't know why I'm not accelerating as I've had people switch into the other lane. Although, I think they learn their lesson when they see me never stop and end up far ahead of the person they got behind.

On the other hand, when I wanted to screw around, I just floored it until I got to 15 over and kept going with everyone well behind me. Regardless, the Civic I drove did an atrocious 10-11 L /100 km in mostly city driving. So many damn street lights turning red + stop'n'go traffic -- wonder why I gave up on driving.

Ugh, the lights around here are terrible. They simply take way too long to change! I sat at a red arrow last night for about a minute while two cars came through the opposing direction. I've seen some people around here get so frustrated at waiting that they just go through the red light. Back in New York, if there hasn't been traffic in the opposing direction for about 5-10 seconds, the intersection is pretty much on a hair trigger where anyone activating the pressure plate at the stopped side will immediately trigger a light change. I really miss that sometimes.
 
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