Tesla Motors death watch

[SheHateMe]

Their cars are too expensive. We went to their showroom at Oak Brook mall in IL. I only saw 3 Teslas on the road the entire time I was there. Their cars are too expensive.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Their cars are too expensive. We went to their showroom at Oak Brook mall in IL. I only saw 3 Teslas on the road the entire time I was there. Their cars are too expensive.

Different story in California. I see tons of them on the road. I actually saw one on a public charging station earlier outside a strip mall.

 

[beginner99]

I'm arguing for the sake of butt-sniffers that think they are making a difference on the environment. Electricity is produced with the same coal and shit that a fuel car burns.
You're not making a damn bit of difference, but because you don't directly see it - out of sight out of mind.

You arwe making a difference even if the power comes from a coal plant. The simple reason being that large plaint like coal plant have a way, way better efficiency factor than a standard car engine. And electric motors are also way more efficient.

 

[Eug]

I think I may have seen one in Toronto. One. Personally I'm not optimistic about them and I think their stock is likely overvalued, but I won't write them off either. I wonder if their best bet is to reach a point where they get bought out.

My current car is a 2004 Prius and I'll probably replace it in the next few years. A Tesla could be a consideration but only if they can create a model that competes in a similar market. I'm curious what their long term winter performance is like.

Higher end luxury only car brands are OK, but they are generally less stable than brands with both mainstream mid-priced models and higher-priced models.

If Tesla doesn't have a more mainstream model in 3 years I'll just continue to see them as an interesting curiosity, and then buy a different car.

P.S. It is not as if I'm averse to new car tech. Like I said I own the 2004 Prius, and I actually have had it since 2004. Furthermore, I had the almost beta Prius 2001 before that, starting in 2001. So I've been in this market for over a dozen years now... And I'm still not convinced about Tesla. The big difference is that the Prius is/was an immensely practical car (at least for the 2004) priced at a reasonable level vs the mainstream. The Tesla is neither. Like I said they can choose to compete just in the luxury market, but in that case I'll just take my money elsewhere.

 

[Demo24]

I think I may have seen one in Toronto. One. Personally I'm not optimistic about them and I think their stock is likely overvalued, but I won't write them off either. I wonder if their best bet is to reach a point where they get bought out.

My current car is a 2004 Prius and I'll probably replace it in the next few years. A Tesla could be a consideration but only if they can create a model that competes in a similar market. I'm curious what their long term winter performance is like.

Higher end luxury only car brands are OK, but they are generally less stable than brands with both mainstream mid-priced models and higher-priced models.

If Tesla doesn't have a more mainstream model in 3 years I'll just continue to see them as an interesting curiosity, and then buy a different car.

P.S. It is not as if I'm averse to new car tech. Like I said I own the 2004 Prius, and I actually have had it since 2004. Furthermore, I had the almost beta Prius 2001 before that, starting in 2001. So I've been in this market for over a dozen years now... And I'm still not convinced about Tesla. The big difference is that the Prius is/was an immensely practical car (at least for the 2004) priced at a reasonable level vs the mainstream. The Tesla is neither. Like I said they can choose to compete just in the luxury market, but in that case I'll just take my money elsewhere.

There are plans for a cheaper model, but that will still be a bit costly since they are going for the ~40k mark. Not sure where it will end up since they haven't really released any details besides they are bringing a more affordable model to market fairly soon.

I'd love to own a Tesla model s, and if I had bought the stock when I was looking at it ~$25 I might could today.:hmm:

 

[NFS4]

Their cars are too expensive. We went to their showroom at Oak Brook mall in IL. I only saw 3 Teslas on the road the entire time I was there. Their cars are too expensive.

Isn't that like walking into an Aston Martin dealership and saying, "These cars are too expensive?"

And this thing spanks Astons http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JUW0l7bZn1s&desktop_uri=/watch?v=JUW0l7bZn1s

 

[Kaido]

I think I may have seen one in Toronto. One. Personally I'm not optimistic about them and I think their stock is likely overvalued, but I won't write them off either. I wonder if their best bet is to reach a point where they get bought out.

My current car is a 2004 Prius and I'll probably replace it in the next few years. A Tesla could be a consideration but only if they can create a model that competes in a similar market. I'm curious what their long term winter performance is like.

Higher end luxury only car brands are OK, but they are generally less stable than brands with both mainstream mid-priced models and higher-priced models.

If Tesla doesn't have a more mainstream model in 3 years I'll just continue to see them as an interesting curiosity, and then buy a different car.

P.S. It is not as if I'm averse to new car tech. Like I said I own the 2004 Prius, and I actually have had it since 2004. Furthermore, I had the almost beta Prius 2001 before that, starting in 2001. So I've been in this market for over a dozen years now... And I'm still not convinced about Tesla. The big difference is that the Prius is/was an immensely practical car (at least for the 2004) priced at a reasonable level vs the mainstream. The Tesla is neither. Like I said they can choose to compete just in the luxury market, but in that case I'll just take my money elsewhere.

Not only that, but the hybrid technology has caught up. The 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid (non-plug-in) is a "real" mid-sized car (not specifically designed for efficiency, originally) for $29k - $35k and gets 50 MPG city & 45 MPG highway, which is pretty dang close in MPG to the $24k - $35k Prius at 51/48:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/09/23/2014-honda-accord-hybrid-pricing/

The Tesla (and every other electric car) is only practical if it fits your driving style, i.e. if you can live within range and if you can live with having to recharge (i.e. deal with the wait time) at road stops if required. Even with the 265-mile EPA range on the higher-end Tesla model, I still wouldn't call it practical (for your average consumer) because if you need to go farther, it's not a 5-minute fillup at any gas station on the block, it's a minimum 20-minute recharge to get half a tank if you live near a Supercharger, or longer if there's only a standard charger in the area, and even slower if someone is already in line (someone has almost always been using the public chargers when I go out in my buddy's Fit EV).

I'm in Hartford & the nearest Tesla Supercharger is in Milford, which is a 45-minute, 50-mile drive (not to mention traffic!), and then you burn up 50 miles coming back, and that 265-mile range is really like 170 if you want to really enjoy the car, so you have to factor in driving style, charging time, round trips, etc. My buddies who have EV's are mostly geeks like me anyway and like to calculate & plan their trips out anyway, so it's fun for them rather than a hassle to own & operate. I think a 500-mile battery pack would be super huge for selling consumers on electric cars, but until we see that in like a sub-$30k car, it's just not going to massively take off because most people can't afford a $70k car, especially one with limited range.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Tesla isn't going to die anytime soon. There's too much interest in the brand.

Musk made good on the first bailout, ahead of time.

I don't think he'd have trouble raising significant capital to keep the company afloat and that will only get easier as time goes on and they enhance battery technology and get closer to producing a lower priced car.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Their cars are too expensive. We went to their showroom at Oak Brook mall in IL. I only saw 3 Teslas on the road the entire time I was there. Their cars are too expensive.

They're still expensive to build, so they built a car aimed towards a market that can afford it. And they hit the bullseye.

If you live in Detroit, you probably won't see many of them. But I see them daily, in St. Louis! (just not over in East St. Louis).

There's a few roadsters and model S's that frequent downtown St. Louis.

 

[AViking]

If you're seeing so many and they can't keep up with demand why is the price not higher? Why don't they milk this so that they have the cash for more RND?

 

[CPA]

Quite possibly because many of us don't live out there in the bible belt, Population: 1 per 10 miles^2.

Teslas owners are concentrated in the major cities. And voila, many ATOTers a) live in the city, and b) would recognize one when they see one.

A) I live in a major city (fourth largest) and I have not seen one.

B) Maybe you are right. I'll try to keep an eye out for one.

And sorry for calling folks out. I guess my point was not well stated. It could be that you are seeing the same Tesla over and over again. Again, given the small population sold, it should be a rarity to see one (Imported may be a different case since he lives close to two dealerships).

 

[NFS4]

A) I live in a major city (fourth largest) and I have not seen one.

B) Maybe you are right. I'll try to keep an eye out for one.

And sorry for calling folks out. I guess my point was not well stated. It could be that you are seeing the same Tesla over and over again. Again, given the small population sold, it should be a rarity to see one (Imported may be a different case since he lives close to two dealerships).

I live in the Raleigh, NC area and I see at least two or three a week. But then again, the Research Triangle Park (RTP) area is "Silicon Valley East" so it's to be expected.

I actually see more Teslas than I do Astons, Ferraris, Lambos, etc.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Brand loyalty/perception and value are often disconnected. The Tesla S is being sold to the treehuggers and the sports car enthusiasts that crave torque and have cash to spend on a $70k vehicle. That's not out of reach for a lot of upper-middle class.

The Chevy Volt was just dropped $5k as a move to compete with the Prius. The Prius just split into 4-5 different models to better compete with other compact LEVs. Honda and Toyota have other hybrid offerings too....and VW/Audi are still doing very well with thier TDI models which are competitive with the hybrids....

Ford's got a hybrid and has been pushing hybrid engines too.

I personally prefer the CNG option, but don't have any stations around here. I'm not on board with the electric options simply because of the unforseen maintenance costs and the way I still frown on electronics to be so incorporated into vehicles. The more electronics there are, the more disposable cars are. I still think a car should last 10+ years. I like Bluetooth in a radio, but don't want GPS or a LED display in the place of my speedometer and tach.

 

[Spungo]

The Chevy Volt was just dropped $5k as a move to compete with the Prius. The Prius just split into 4-5 different models to better compete with other compact LEVs. Honda and Toyota have other hybrid offerings too....and VW/Audi are still doing very well with thier TDI models which are competitive with the hybrids....

I think they missed the mark on the Volt. It's a good car, but it should have been marketed as a high end car. You can't tell me a $40,000 hybrid car is economical in some way. It's basically a Cruze with a hybrid system that cost more than twice as much. In my mind, it should have been something like an electric Mustang with a 20hp generator in the back. It would have the incredible torque of an electric motor and the driving range of a normal car. Volts are sold at a huge loss because they're more complicated than a Tesla but are priced cheaper. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Kaido]

If you're seeing so many and they can't keep up with demand why is the price not higher? Why don't they milk this so that they have the cash for more RND?

They did. Previously it was like $70 - $100k for the options, the new higher-end options let you configure it all the way up to $121k (performance model with bigger tires, new accessories, etc.).

 

[Eug]

I can theoretically afford the current base model Tesla, but I don't see the point of one. Nonetheless I would consider it if it made sense as a primary car. In reality it isn't. For just under $80000 CAD for the base model I get a car that's limited to 300+change km range. The more practical one costs $90000 just to get a range over 400 km. That's just not really practical considering the limitations in charging. Plus if I wanted to install a supercharger at my house, it'd cost me several thousand extra.

At those prices, I'd MUCH, MUCH rather get a Lexus hybrid... but I'll probably be looking at prices costing half as much. $40000 is more reasonable, since in the end, I just don't get major kicks spending an extra $40000 just to accelerate a few seconds faster. I work at a place where lots of people drive $60000-90000 cars. My parking lot is absolute jammed full of them. NOBODY has a Tesla. Nobody.

I know someone here posted it's like saying Aston Martins are too expensive, and you know what? I agree. Aston Martins ARE too expensive, and I would never, ever buy one, and more importantly I wouldn't invest in a company like that either, because it's potentially quite risky. I'd much rather invest in Toyota than Aston Martin.

Personally, I think at this point in time if you invest in Tesla, you have to be very aware that it's a risky move. The stock has already ridden the hype wave up, but I'm not sure where the company is going from here. Are they really going to have a profitable and good quality $40000 car? Or are the hybrids going to eat them for lunch? That is a unknown. If they're successful, the stock could skyrocket. If they are not, it could plummet. I know that's the same for all companies, but it is more so for Tesla, and one should be prepared for the inherent risk in investing in companies like them.

As you may have guessed, I am risk averse, and I like practicality and don't usually spend a lot on high end luxury items. I do like to splurge sometimes, but I'd rather spend it on computer equipment and mobile devices. Much cheaper.

 

[AViking]

I saw an Aston Martin yesterday. In Stockholm where they really can't enjoy the car for more than a few months of the year. I see Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Buggatis, and some fool even parked his $1M+ McLaren on the back street by the exit to a movie theater in the middle of the winter which blew my mind. I haven't seen a Tesla because they haven't brought them here yet and you'd need to go to Oslo to get one and then put a charger in your garage.

The people that buy these cars will surely buy a Tesla just like those in the states but money is no object for anyone who owns one. They should be charging way more until demand and supply are closer.

Get mass production going, battery prices lower, and sell them in the $30,000 range and watch the combustion engine go away.

I get the feeling that the price for an efficient battery is going to be high for way too long. What's the timeframe for more affordable batteries?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Tesla has a very long, bright future ahead.

In all honesty, I compare Tesla to Sony when they released their PS3 at a net loss.

1) They are/will gain revenue in many other ways than just selling the vehicle itself
2) Over time as popularity gains, the parts will progressively become much, much, cheaper.

 

[Eug]

I used to live beside a Lamborghini dealership (downtown Toronto). The funny thing is I just about never saw them on the road, unless it was driving to the dealership to get serviced. Like, WTF is the point then?

Well, not never. In the middle of summer, I'd see one occasionally cruising down the main strip for a few minutes at a time, and then they'd completely disappear in the spring, fall, and winter.

Mind you, I know guy who drives a Ferrari, and that's the only car he owns. Drives it in Canadian winters, and has a rooptop cargo carrier for it.

Get mass production going, battery prices lower, and sell them in the $30,000 range and watch the combustion engine go away.

Yeah, that's all they need to do. Cake.

It sounds like a friend of a friend of a friend who said that being successful in the music industry is easy. You just have to have three hit songs.

 

[Imp]

My current car is a 2004 Prius and I'll probably replace it in the next few years. A Tesla could be a consideration but only if they can create a model that competes in a similar market. I'm curious what their long term winter performance is like.

Dude....

 

[Eug]

Yes?

If you don't like the car then oh well. If you're asking why I haven't replaced it in 9 years it's because this thing has been near bullet proof. The few things that have gone wrong on it are the dashboard video screen that needed to be replaced, a wheel bearing that needed to be replaced, the CD changer has a stuck CD, and some of the paint on the edge of the hood is coming off. (It seems I must have chipped the paint, and then water and salt got underneath, as the underlying aluminum is getting oxidized and bubbling up the paint there.)

Ironically, the biggest complaint I have about the car is that the stereo has no aux input.

 

[Imp]

I'm just impressed that you have such an ancient Prius.

 

[Eug]

So am I actually. I was expecting to get rid of it after maybe 7-8years, but haven't felt the need to.

That's one reason I'm still curious about a $40000-45000 Tesla even if it doesn't arrive for a few years. So far I think I can wait that long with this old Prius. However, I suspect it would be more like $55000 with extended battery, etc., plus $3000 for the charging station), which is probably more than I would want to spend, and again we're getting into Lexus hybrid territory then.

 

[Buttzilla]

My company is down the street from the Telsa plant, we're actually next to the old Solyndra (now Seagate) plant. I see them all around here, they're really popular in the bay area.

If you want see a shit ton of them, go to the airport, parking lots have charging stations and they're filled with Teslas, used to be leafs/volts.

 

[bignateyk]

If Tesla continues at its current rate of production, it will consume the worlds supply of lithium batteries in the next few years.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...ne-double-global-demand-for-its-battery-cells

This no more cell phones, no more laptops, no more tablets,,, nothing will be left.

However, who is to say telsa is not going to create a new type of battery to fill the worlds shortage of lithium batteries?

That wouldn't be a bad thing. Running out of something forces innovation. Otherwise companies are content to rehash the same old shit year in and year out.