you're not alone, but the standards here related to certain topics have always been shit sadly.
Yes
Taking the stance that there can and should be more than one opinion on something REQUIRES debate and criticism on any subject.
This applies to any topic
The mention of fat shaming. You had said it's been a while since we had a fat shaming thread. Actual Fat Shaming isn't about beauty per se, it's about calling out weak people for being morbidly obese and thinking it's ok. Being that obese IS shameful. However, obese people are campaigning to make it a negative thing so that they don't have to feel bad about themselves. Instead they want to make the people who think their lifestyle is shameful feel bad about themselves.
Great definition from Urban Dictionary:
1) A term made by obese people to avoid the responsibility to actually take proper care of their body and instead victimize themself by pretending they're discriminated like an ethnic group. When confronted with someone like that they will ignore all the facts about obesity being unhealthy and pretend it's some sort of evil socially constructed conspiracy by teh patriarchy
2) fat shaming is the act of poking fun of someone for being overweight, or telling someone they are worthless, useless, lazy, or disgusting because they are overweight.
Like most terms, this has been adoptwisted by Radical Neofeminists to mean something very different. Under the RNF definition, it means " to make an overweight female feel in any way uncomfortable, usually by telling her anything is wrong with her weight."
This unfortunately includes Doctors telling them to lose weight for their health and suggesting diets or friends saying that their clothes are too tight, even men very politely refusing dates because they just don't find them attractive.
This girl could be an amazing beautiful person on the inside, but there's no way to spin it. She's embracing an unnattractive, unhealthy lifestyle and trying to convince us it's ok. It's not. It actually is shameful.
Ever seen the build of lead males in action cartoons? I don't know of many people who look like He-Man. (And he might be arrested for public indecency with the outfit he usually wore.) Or Hellboy: Ron Perlman wore a "muscle suit" for that role, and I don't think there was much fanfare over that.No, we've raised an entire generation of women who feel ashamed of their bodies because they don't look like an airbrushed farce of a human skeleton. This directly relates to the alarming rate of growth of mental health disorders that carry their own stigma. Not everyone cares about being in shape or living to 80, who are you to judge what someone else does with their own lives?
...
But how many people do you see who are proud of smoking-related lung cancer or alcohol dependency?And amusingly, if we have an entire nation of overweight people as you say, and this is all during the period where there was NO plus sized models whatsoever being shown, then how does your concern even make one bit of fucking sense at all? Shouldn't we all be rail thin and happy since that's what the advertisements told us?
I would say she's personally responsible for her actions and doesn't care what you think about them, hence her belief in this campaign. She's not blaming anyone for how she is, she's proud of it.
You didn't answer the tobacco/alcohol question either. Should those ads be banned as well so as not to promote such unhealthy lifestyles?
But the misogyny in specific has greatly increased in the last few years. There was a time when someone could post something about a woman without it degenerating into flat out misogynistic slurs, but now that seems to be considered normal behavior.
Even in the Discussion Club subforum, a subforum that is supposed to be held to a higher standard, we have outright misogynistic slurs being used with impunity.
All these "body positive" models are making a difference and all, but who's going to represent people with ugly faces?
Ever seen the build of lead males in action cartoons? I don't know of many people who look like He-Man. (And he might be arrested for public indecency with the outfit he usually wore.) Or Hellboy: Ron Perlman wore a "muscle suit" for that role, and I don't think there was much fanfare over that.
Hell, they could do a little post-processing to add six-pack abs to someone in a movie.
Yet that doesn't seem to get as much attention when it's that way around. Men or women, there are these unrealistic standard; it just seems to be viewed very differently when it comes to women, like everyone abruptly forgets that it's possible to edit photos or video, or that makeup can function like a mask.
Maybe no cancer, but alcohol dependence is glorified all the time on TV.But how many people do you see who are proud of smoking-related lung cancer or alcohol dependency?
Shameful to you, subjectively. Her lifestyle is not shameful at all to me and if that's the way she chooses to live her life, then more power to her. There are a lot of people who find her attractive too. You should really learn how to accept that some things are subjective and some things are not. Is she objectively overweight and at greater risk for health problems? Yes. No one is disputing that fact anywhere here. Does that make her objectively 'unattractive' to every single person? No, no it doesn't.
And what's most amusing about the 'definition' posted is that it claims that they are pretending they are discriminated against. I think a single read through this thread handily proves how very real that discrimination is.
On the subject of fat shaming....
I'd wager to say that most of us here who happen to be within the 'healthy(ish)' weight range owe their ability to stay within that range to their metabolism and nothing more. I've battled with my weight and I've nearly given up but along the way I've counted enough calories and read enough nutrition labels to know what is good and what is bad and I can assure you that 99% of you have no fucking clue what good healthy eating is or what regular portions are supposed to be. Does 2,000 calories sound like alot. Count up what you eat in a day and I'd be willing to bet that you're consuming around 3500 calories per day.
The single most damning statistic is that 90% of people who lose a significant amount of weight will gain it all back within 5 years. In reality a person's best hope is bariatric surgery where one would only have a 75% chance of regaining their weight.
Combine this with all of the pseudoscience and contradictory studies it isn't any wonder why people get frustrated.
The fact of the matter is that medical science doesn't really have much figured out when it comes to obesity and unfortunately this allows pseudoscience and snake oil remedies to flourish in the absence of real and effective medicine.
Granted diet and exercise is all you need is a true statement on a very superficial level. But it is mostly a lifestyle change. And more importantly it is a lifestyle that you won't be sharing with anyone else. It's much like kicking a drug habit and the people who are the most successful at kicking their habits are the ones who quit hanging around all of their drug addict buddies. But imagine trying to quit crack while you still live amongst crack heads. The fact is that we as a society like to eat and we like to eat like pigs and sometimes you'll have to be content with your salad and water while your friends are slamming burgers, hot dogs and beer.
Bull-fucking-shit.
Some of us get so tired of people making excuses. We know what makes people fat. Eating too much and moving too little. End of story.
The number of people whose weight aren't affected by those two things is a tiny majority of the number of obese people in this country. Are you one of them? Maybe, but as long as every 400 pounder tries to use the thyroid problem excuse, don't be surprised if people are skeptical.
You are wrong. End of story.
Sometimes I wonder that people can really be that ignorant. I mean I know that some people are just born dumb, they really can't learn. But I would think that most people could stand on a street corner and learn that what you are saying is just plain stupid.
I could try to correct your ignorance with some real fact based and scientifically backed information, but it does not really matter, you choose to be ignorant.
But the misogyny in specific has greatly increased in the last few years. There was a time when someone could post something about a woman without it degenerating into flat out misogynistic slurs, but now that seems to be considered normal behavior.
Even in the Discussion Club subforum, a subforum that is supposed to be held to a higher standard, we have outright misogynistic slurs being used with impunity.
I believe that Platypus used the wrong word here, criticism in the form of debate is called for, but much of this is not criticism but personal insults and misogynistic slurs.
You are wrong. End of story.
Sometimes I wonder that people can really be that ignorant. I mean I know that some people are just born dumb, they really can't learn. But I would think that most people could stand on a street corner and learn that what you are saying is just plain stupid.
I could try to correct your ignorance with some real fact based and scientifically backed information, but it does not really matter, you choose to be ignorant.
I'm middle aged now.
I have no metabolism or luck or genetics on my side.
I'm in great shape because I've done my best to be in shape for most of my life. Do I expect my peers to be in shape I am? No. Reality is that there is an acceptable range that a healthy human can be in weight wise. There is a reasonable "under\over" for those that do have medical and emotional issues
I'm old enough to have seen the phases people go through. I've friends and acquaintances who have battled weight issues all their life. I know folks who did it through exercise and nutrition. I know those who did through nutrition alone.
People who have dropped 200lbs. People who fluctuate. People who went the surgery route. Those with thyroid issues. Hormone issues....everything.
There is one thing that is consistent about those the ones who stayed obese or returned to obesity.
They are the ones who talked themselves into "embracing the body they have"
They are the ones who are now dead. Suffering from Diabetes. Stroke. Hip and knee issues. I'm now old enough to see my peers start to drop off because of preventable diseases.
I know tthat its popular nowadays to "embrace everything because everyone is special and important and empower all thing things so they can blog\twitter blah blah blah..
Screw that
Obesity has a cost.
http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/health_equity/costOnHealthcareSystem.html
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs311/en/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9792474
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10147252
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-consequences/economic/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/30/us-obesity-idUSBRE83T0C820120430
I'm willing to bet obesity is inversely proportional to income and education, in the US.
Depression, inactivity, low cost food and ignorance of fitness and nutrition are all factors.
On the other hand, if you don't think genetics have much to do with obesity, you are the most ignorant of all.
The standard is worse for women by a large margin. Ever notice how many average looking men are on TV? Ever notice that there wives on these shows are all well above average (unless they are supposed to be ugly as a part of a comedy).
The fact is that average looking women can't get a part in a TV show no matter their talent, while average or even ugly men can if they have the talent.
Women are for the most part the object being acted on, so it is their looks that mostly matter, while men are the actors so it is their acting that matters.
Maybe no cancer, but alcohol dependence is glorified all the time on TV.
The flip side of this is that women can become fantastically wealthy based on no other traits than their physical attractiveness. You've gotta take the good with the bad. You don't get all the privilege and none of the responsibility.
Fat women are trying to tear down attractive women and their positions in society because they feel that's easier than becoming like them. It's absolutely ridiculous. When men see a fit, ripped guy they don't think "gosh the darn media is pushing unrealistic body images on my poor fragile psyche!" We usually think, "I better hit the gym twice tomorrow," or "better lay off the pizza."
Unattractive women don't like that that attractive women get the world handed to them on a silver platter, so they're trying to change the standards of attractiveness. Rush Limbaugh nailed it years ago "feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."
Bull-fucking-shit.
Some of us get so tired of people making excuses. We know what makes people fat. Eating too much and moving too little. End of story.
The number of people whose weight aren't affected by those two things is a tiny majority of the number of obese people in this country. Are you one of them? Maybe, but as long as every 400 pounder tries to use the thyroid problem excuse, don't be surprised if people are skeptical.
On the subject of fat shaming....
I'd wager to say that most of us here who happen to be within the 'healthy(ish)' weight range owe their ability to stay within that range to their metabolism and nothing more. I've battled with my weight and I've nearly given up but along the way I've counted enough calories and read enough nutrition labels to know what is good and what is bad and I can assure you that 99% of you have no fucking clue what good healthy eating is or what regular portions are supposed to be. Does 2,000 calories sound like alot. Count up what you eat in a day and I'd be willing to bet that you're consuming around 3500 calories per day.
The single most damning statistic is that 90% of people who lose a significant amount of weight will gain it all back within 5 years. In reality a person's best hope is bariatric surgery where one would only have a 75% chance of regaining their weight.
Combine this with all of the pseudoscience and contradictory studies it isn't any wonder why people get frustrated.
The fact of the matter is that medical science doesn't really have much figured out when it comes to obesity and unfortunately this allows pseudoscience and snake oil remedies to flourish in the absence of real and effective medicine.
Granted diet and exercise is all you need is a true statement on a very superficial level. But it is mostly a lifestyle change. And more importantly it is a lifestyle that you won't be sharing with anyone else. It's much like kicking a drug habit and the people who are the most successful at kicking their habits are the ones who quit hanging around all of their drug addict buddies. But imagine trying to quit crack while you still live amongst crack heads. The fact is that we as a society like to eat and we like to eat like pigs and sometimes you'll have to be content with your salad and water while your friends are slamming burgers, hot dogs and beer.
Why don't you tell us about some of the big changes you have made in your life to make it better. It's not as easy as you think.