Tessellation in BF3

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Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
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Like I said AMD optimized doesn't override the tessellation factor in EVERY game. Only games where AMD decides a higher than optimal tessellation factor is used by the application. AMD optimized have no effect on 3Dmark11 score or Heaven 2.5 score. And it certainly doesn't turn off all tessellation and give you no performance drop.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/...t-catalyst-112-with-tessellation-control.html

AMD optimized is the default selection in CCC. Why would they help code in DX11 in BF3 then force tessellation off with AMD optimized? It makes no sense.

AMD optimized only works when AMD have a profile in place.
But AMD "optimized" still means it overrides what the developer wants...due to AMD tessellation deficit.
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
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lol Scali's blog ?

Scali is an nvidia troll who got banned from these forums.

You are free to post factual errors...both in the link to hius blog...or in the link to Anandtech.

But I will bet you that you can't...ball in your court.
 

WMD

Senior member
Apr 13, 2011
476
0
0
In this interview, Dice confirms tessellation in the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVDmRHJzlvo

Operation firestorm MP looks to be the perfect candidate for distant terrain tessellation.

Terrain medium


Terrain ultra



CCC tessellation off


CCC tessellation application controlled


I still dont see any IQ or performance drop from tessellation on.

Hawx 2 tessellation comparison


It sure does look a whole lot better with tessellation though it cut the 5870 fps in half!
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-570-gf110-performance,2806-4.html

Overall pretty disappointed with the lack of tessellation in BF3. I can only imagine how much better it looks if it uses tessellation the same way as Hawx 2

Edit UPDATE: OK I have finally pin down where the tessellation was actually applied. Its there all along on the distant mountains. I made the mistake off changing CCC settings with Afterburner running before. It worked now.

Tessellation off


Tessellation on


It looks like the tessellation in BF3 is pretty well optimized too. Only a 10% drop on a 5850 on a scene with nothing but mountains. It should be even less of an impact in more demanding areas.
 
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LiuKangBakinPie

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
3,903
0
0
They added the extra shaders to handle tessellation but clearly they didnt add enough. On previous cards it was done with the vertex shaders
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
So if you have dx11, it runs with tessellation on by default.. never really noticed it, but with it off, definitely the mountains look crap.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
In this interview, Dice confirms tessellation in the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVDmRHJzlvo

Operation firestorm MP looks to be the perfect candidate for distant terrain tessellation.

Terrain medium


Terrain ultra



CCC tessellation off


CCC tessellation application controlled


I still dont see any IQ or performance drop from tessellation on.

Hawx 2 tessellation comparison


It sure does look a whole lot better with tessellation though it cut the 5870 fps in half!
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-570-gf110-performance,2806-4.html

Overall pretty disappointed with the lack of tessellation in BF3. I can only imagine how much better it looks if it uses tessellation the same way as Hawx 2

Edit UPDATE: OK I have finally pin down where the tessellation was actually applied. Its there all along on the distant mountains. I made the mistake off changing CCC settings with Afterburner running before. It worked now.

Tessellation off


Tessellation on


It looks like the tessellation in BF3 is pretty well optimized too. Only a 10% drop on a 5850 on a scene with nothing but mountains. It should be even less of an impact in more demanding areas.

It's good to see some tessellation but personally can't wait for much, much, more as hardware improves from AMD and nVidia. Thanks, for taking the time!
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
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0
They added the extra shaders to handle tessellation but clearly they didnt add enough. On previous cards it was done with the vertex shaders

Sense...you make none.

AMD's(ATi's) previous tesselation was nothing like the tesselation in DX11
http://www.anandtech.com/show/773

This time around AMD made a fixed tesselation engine in the 5xxx series...and added one more (for a total of two) tessellation engine to the 6xx series.

NVIDIA made a unified approach using thier shaders, hence why their implementation has superior performance.
 

Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
931
160
106
Sense...you make none.

AMD's(ATi's) previous tesselation was nothing like the tesselation in DX11
http://www.anandtech.com/show/773

This time around AMD made a fixed tesselation engine in the 5xxx series...and added one more (for a total of two) tessellation engine to the 6xx series.

NVIDIA made a unified approach using thier shaders, hence why their implementation has superior performance.


I think he meant the tessellation unit on the HD2000-4000 series and the 360...Not that I know what's different though
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,110
1,260
126
It's hard to complain when BF3 looks as good as it does.

Exactly. The game is better looking than Crysis 2, so who cares. It also performs better. Shame on Crytek.

The game is a testament to how worthless anything we have seen done in DX11 with tessellation is as yet.

BF3 making minimal and moderated use of tessellation is still the best looking DX11 game around.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
It's debatable. Overall I would give BF3 the edge as it performs better.

My issue with Crysis 2's tessellation is that it was overdone. The bricks actually look pretty ugly with it turned on, and it can be a performance hog if there's too much tessellation going on at once. It's obvious that it was an after thought, whereas in BF3 they actually used it well and optimized for it.
 

WMD

Senior member
Apr 13, 2011
476
0
0
Exactly. The game is better looking than Crysis 2, so who cares. It also performs better. Shame on Crytek.

The game is a testament to how worthless anything we have seen done in DX11 with tessellation is as yet.

BF3 making minimal and moderated use of tessellation is still the best looking DX11 game around.

This i agree. It seems much more efficient than in crysis.

Can some test the performance drop on the 6900 series card?
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Turn it on and off in CCC and see the performance drop.

can do...give me a few minutes to run a benchmark

edit: a few benchmarks I ran using Crysis 2 and the Adrenaline benchmark app. I ran the central park benchmark as it has a lot of brick and rock structures that use tessellation in varying degrees and it's a repeatable test. Everything was run on Ultra in DX11 using the high resolution textures, 1920x1200, 0x AA, 16x AF. I changed the Tessellation setting inside CCC.

No Tessellation: Min 12.4fps average 42.4fps
AMD Optimized: Min 7.7fps average 28.5fps
Application controlled: Min 7.7fps average 28.5fps
8x Tesellation (used the slider in CCC): Min 9.7fps average 36.7


So this tells me either AMD optimized doesn't work or there is no Crysis 2 profile so it defaults to whatever the game uses. The slider works to control the tessellation level and to my eyes I could not notice a huge difference in quality, but the fps was better. The minimums were severely below the level you'd like to have by any stretch, but the averages were 8fps higher which is pretty good. No tessellation still looks good but there is a noticeable depth difference in brick surfaces and some rock structures. However, the FPS is still too low at my standard resolution to give a good experience if you judge the minimums as a basis for playability. I could not tell how long the fps dropped to this level, it is possible the timedemo started recording and read low fps prior to a fully loaded level, I do not know for certain. However, below 30fps average is substantially lower than I could play the game.

In Battlefield 3 There was no way to make a 100% repeatable test as I have not found any benchmark apps for the game. So I ran everything on ultra, MSAA off, blur on and slider set to the middle. 1920x1200 16x AF and ran a few times through Operation Guillotine's first few minutes with fraps benchmark. This mission in single player won't tell you how MP will perform but it seems to have some usage of tessellation with the terraign and rocks, walls, and structures etc. Also realize with this method there is a margin of error as it's impossible to do everything exactly 100% the same each time, but I did my best to repeat it.

No Tessellation: Min 45fps, max 82fps, Avg 62.58fps
Tessellation 8x slider in CCC: Min 42fps, Max 86fps, Avg 61.79fps
AMD Optimized: Min 39fps, Max 85fps, Avg 58.8fps
Application Controlled: Min 33fps, Max 82fps, Avg 55.91Fps

So I'm going to say that between no tessellation and using 8x, there is almost no difference whatsoever in the performance. I don't know what AMD Optimized is setting it to but there is clearly a profile in the drivers or CAP, but it's set lower than Application Controlled (64x?) and higher than 8x, or perhaps there was some dynamic tessellation rendering going on where things were adjusted on the fly but I don't know how it works so I could not say. There was almost zero visual difference as I believe there isn't much tessellation at all in the engine. There's definitely some because as you turn it down the game gets higher fps, but I don't think anyone should just turn it off here. 8x seems to be the sweet spot generally. It's only a few fps difference, but it's something.
 
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WMD

Senior member
Apr 13, 2011
476
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Great. Minimal performance drop on a 6950 as well. Operation guillotine being a night map, I don't think you can see that much tessellation effects. The best is Thunder Run or Operation Firestorm MP.
 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
136
Exactly. The game is better looking than Crysis 2, so who cares. It also performs better. Shame on Crytek

Thats very debateable. Crysis 2 is a much better looking game than BF3, and not only does it use more DX11 features, the effects of DX11 are much more noticeable.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
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Thats very debateable. Crysis 2 is a much better looking game than BF3, and not only does it use more DX11 features, the effects of DX11 are much more noticeable.

No.

Get into a 64MP map like caspian (fly a jet or just infantry in the forest), dpeak(outside high or inside the tunnel), or even tehran and you will see the amazing lighting & shadow system in frost bite 2. It makes the game look amazing on another level.

Crysis 2 with the texture pack makes objects look good, but BF3's lighting makes the entire scene look amazing.
 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
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No.

Get into a 64MP map like caspian (fly a jet or just infantry in the forest), dpeak(outside high or inside the tunnel), or even tehran and you will see the amazing lighting & shadow system in frost bite 2. It makes the game look amazing on another level.

Crysis 2 with the texture pack makes objects look good, but BF3's lighting makes the entire scene look amazing.

Are we going to start a screenshot war? Because I'm ready to go

BF3 looks great don't get me wrong, and the map sizes are incredible. But Crysis 2 with DX11 Ultra looks flat out amazing!

Crysis 2 has SSDO (superior to HBAO), real time local reflections, variable penumbra, water physcs, extensive use of tessellation etc which just bring the game to a whole other level visually.

The only thing I don't like about Crysis 2 was that some of the textures were too low grade, even with the HD texture pack. But there are texture mods out there that rectify that problem completely, so now the game looks damn near perfect.
 

grimpr

Golden Member
Aug 21, 2007
1,095
7
81
Both engines, cryengine 3 & frostbite 2 are state of the art, real art in games is a whole different matter.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Great. Minimal performance drop on a 6950 as well. Operation guillotine being a night map, I don't think you can see that much tessellation effects. The best is Thunder Run or Operation Firestorm MP.

There's more rocks and things all over the first 2 minutes of guillotine than any other map. If they were to use tessellation, it'd be there.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,110
1,260
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Just not seeing it at all with Crysis 2. BF3 is the better looking game. Crysis 2 may have all sorts of effects going on, but when I look at what was presented on my screen, BF3 is the superior game for graphics. We won't even touch gameplay, BF3 is leagues ahead of C2 there.

In BF3 on a map like Grand Bazaar or the single player campaign; those urban settings blow away anything I saw in Crysis 2 and C2 was nothing but urban stuff.

I think too many concessions were made for consoles with Crysis 2, it certainly felt like a console port whereas BF3 does not. I also think Crysis 2 is hard to like when the four year old original looks better than the sequel :thumbsdown:
 

Carfax83

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2010
6,841
1,536
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Just not seeing it at all with Crysis 2. BF3 is the better looking game. Crysis 2 may have all sorts of effects going on, but when I look at what was presented on my screen, BF3 is the superior game for graphics. We won't even touch gameplay, BF3 is leagues ahead of C2 there.

You're referring to art it seems, and not graphics. Art is subjective, but graphics isn't. Crysis 2 is quantifiably superior to BF3 graphically, and you can show this by looking at the technology both games use, as well as screenshots:













In each of these screenshots, you can see clear use of the various graphical technologies used in Crysis 2 DX11, such as SSDO, variable penumbra, tessellation, parallax occlusion mapping, real time local reflections etc..

I challenge you to show me anything in BF3 that looks anywhere near as good as those screenshots......especially the last one showing a great view of the Cathedral.

I think too many concessions were made for consoles with Crysis 2, it certainly felt like a console port whereas BF3 does not. I also think Crysis 2 is hard to like when the four year old original looks better than the sequel :thumbsdown:

Initially this was the case, but the DX11 and hi rez pack changed that.
 
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WMD

Senior member
Apr 13, 2011
476
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0
Both have their own short comings. Crysis is very inefficient in its tessellation. Turn off HBAO and you can see the indoor lighting in BF3 is quite flat. Metro2033 beats them both I would say.
 

ImDonly1

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,357
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So is tesselation on by default in the ATI drivers? I have mine set to AMD optimized.
Or do I have to uncheck that and set the slider to 64x?
 
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