Testosterone booster?

[bononos]

I doubt sleep/diet/exercise problems would ever drop testosterone that low.
......

Probably not in many cases but its a contributing factor. And you went on to say to definitely 'eliminate anything' that could be causing low test in your next post without specifying or giving a hint as to what exactly to look at.

People should be uneasy about the trend of declining male fertility (sperm counts) and I wonder its related to the increased amount of chemical pollutants and gmos as a side effect of living in an industrialized world. Endocrine disrupting plasticisers (phthalates) got the ban about 2 yrs back but who knows the plasticisers that replaced it or whatever else is out there is safe. Then there is greatly increased amounts of RF waves from cellphones/cordless/wireless routers since the last decade and a half.

 

[alkemyst]

Probably not in many cases but its a contributing factor. And you went on to say to definitely 'eliminate anything' that could be causing low test in your next post without specifying or giving a hint as to what exactly to look at.

People should be uneasy about the trend of declining male fertility (sperm counts) and I wonder its related to the increased amount of chemical pollutants and gmos as a side effect of living in an industrialized world. Endocrine disrupting plasticisers (phthalates) got the ban about 2 yrs back but who knows the plasticisers that replaced it or whatever else is out there is safe. Then there is greatly increased amounts of RF waves from cellphones/cordless/wireless routers since the last decade and a half.

It's really nothing with that possible it can be contributing.

Men have had to deal with low testosterone as a result of age forever. Only recently has that opened up to the general public.

Women have been benefitting from hormone therapy for decades.

 

[Lazarus52980]

Well, my regular doctor did not get back to me, so I am now scheduled to see the endocrinologist specialist at the University of Minnesota this Tuesday. For those who are keeping up with this and still interested, I will post the results of that appointment when I get them.

 

[killster1]

cool i ordered some sort of amino acid i think it was initals daa first review of seripus mass protien said to get it hahaha i persoanlly have not gone to dr in 15 years and seem fine just not super buff very interested and after a hepatitis b shot vacine i think i will get blood test ..

sorry for bad grammer etc

 

[MarkHunt]

Well, I have a message into my regular doctor. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and give him a chance to respond to the message I sent him asking how he wants to proceed on this. If I don't hear from him, I will find another doctor that will help me with this.

Thanks everyone for the advice. If anyone is interested, I will post what the next steps I take, be them more tests, replacement therapy, or what not.

what did the doctor say? any recommendations?

 

[Lazarus52980]

what did the doctor say? any recommendations?

Interestingly, he never did reply back. According to the service, I am to get a call back within 4 business hours... It has been a "business week" and have heard nothing. Due to that, I made an appointment with the endocrinologist specialist at the university of Minnesota. I am scheduled to see him at 12:15 this afternoon. I will post later today or tomorrow the results of that visit (Which I presume will be a bevy of tests...)

 

[Lazarus52980]

Ok, I had my appointment with the endocrinologist and I was given a blood test for Total/Free testosterone, something called "sex hormone binding globulin", and then another thing I had not heard of called "Lutropin". Since they do their labs on site, hopefully I will have more news in a day or two.

On the down side, the doctor did not seem to think I was actually low on testosterone... I think if my next test comes back in the 200's I will be able to "whine" and get at least the gel, but it’s frustrating...

 

[iluvdeal]

Ok, I had my appointment with the endocrinologist and I was given a blood test for Total/Free testosterone, something called "sex hormone binding globulin", and then another thing I had not heard of called "Lutropin". Since they do their labs on site, hopefully I will have more news in a day or two.

On the down side, the doctor did not seem to think I was actually low on testosterone... I think if my next test comes back in the 200's I will be able to "whine" and get at least the gel, but it’s frustrating...

If they don't, look around. There's plenty of places out there who'll give you test if you say the right things, complain about your energy levels, sex drive, etc. Usually they specifically advertise themselves such that it makes it apparent they are in business for this reason. Lots of places like that in Vegas.

If the endocrinologist comes back and says you don't need it, I'd personally just take his advice.

 

[Lazarus52980]

If they don't, look around. There's plenty of places out there who'll give you test if you say the right things, complain about your energy levels, sex drive, etc. Usually they specifically advertise themselves such that it makes it apparent they are in business for this reason. Lots of places like that in Vegas.

If the endocrinologist comes back and says you don't need it, I'd personally just take his advice.

To be honest, if he does say that, my intention is to just supplement with the over the counter testosterone pills that I was talking about when I started this thread. Even if my testosterone is "normal", its on the very low end of normal...

 

[nikoli]

Lazarus,
Go to BodyLogic where the physician understands your concerns, will evaluate you thoroughly and knows how to use bioidentical hormones! One of the few places in minneapolis where you can go. The rest are clones of Univ. Minnesota who treat lab values not real people.

 

[Lazarus52980]

Test results came in last night.

Testosterone total from the 2nd test: 248 (Their range shows normal as 240-950)

Sex hormone binding globulin: 18 (Their range shows normal as 11-80)

Lutropin: 2.9 (Their range shows normal as 1.5 to 9.3)


This is the message I received from the Doctor in response to the results:

Your lab tests showed your testosterone level was at the lower end of normal for our lab. The protein that binds testosterone in the blood was also in the lower end of normal. As a result your "free" testosterone level may be somewhat higher than the total testosterone result would indicate. I think it is very hard to know in this situation whether you are having any symptoms related to your testosterone level.

Why don't you give me a call at XXX-XXX-XXXX and we can discuss things.

This is actually pretty frustrating. Because I am on the edge of what they think is a "normal" range, in spite of that fact that even the national institute of health shows the bottom of the range as being at 300 (link here). Also, from what I can find, if you account for age, I am REALLY REALLY low (as noted in the ranges here).

I called the Doctor last night and left him a message saying that since I am right on the edge, and I feel like I am having isuses with symptoms, would he at least consider a low dosage of TRT and I could come back in a few months and we could look at the changes. He has not gotten back to me yet (Not that I expected him to do so on the weekend) but I will let you know his response when he does.

I hope I am not forced to go to body logic. Going to a 3rd doctor for the same issue feels wrong somehow... Like I am just searching for a doctor to give me the answer I am looking for...

 

[alkemyst]

We've talked about this. Being at the low end of the 'normal' range is not really what's proper.

If your doctor doesn't get that, you will need to find another one. Also your test ranges are not standard, what test/labs is he doing?

 

[Lazarus52980]

We've talked about this. Being at the low end of the 'normal' range is not really what's proper.

If your doctor doesn't get that, you will need to find another one. Also your test ranges are not standard, what test/labs is he doing?

I agree completly Alkemyst. The first test was a "regular doctor" and the 2nd was the specalist. Two different doctors, two different test, about the same result, and both doctors seem hesitant for reasons I don't understand. If this Doctor is not willing to help me, I am going to call Body Logic as Nikoli recomended. I just don't see why this is hard for the doctors. If I had "almost" high blood preasure, or cholesterol, doctors would not hesitate to medicate me.... For some reason this is different..

As far as the ranges they are using? I don't know where they get them...

 

[alkemyst]

Doctors are hesitant because TRT/HRT in men is still considered a vanity deal by many and worse they think of it as part of just getting old.

If the latter was the case why take blood pressure and other meds...

TNATION.COM has a lot of good information and stickies on finding the right doc/therapy.

The only problem with that site is some of the cancer patients and the guys that lost their nuts feel intact males have no place doing the same therapy they are.

 

[bononos]

......

This is actually pretty frustrating. Because I am on the edge of what they think is a "normal" range, in spite of that fact that even the national institute of health shows the bottom of the range as being at 300 (link here). Also, from what I can find, if you account for age, I am REALLY REALLY low (as noted in the ranges here).
........

Your total test is very low but your 'free test' (which is the most important) may actually be normal because your shbg level is also low. And that is exactly what the doc has emailed you.

 

[interchange]

Test results came in last night.

Testosterone total from the 2nd test: 248 (Their range shows normal as 240-950)

Sex hormone binding globulin: 18 (Their range shows normal as 11-80)

Lutropin: 2.9 (Their range shows normal as 1.5 to 9.3)


This is the message I received from the Doctor in response to the results:





This is actually pretty frustrating. Because I am on the edge of what they think is a "normal" range, in spite of that fact that even the national institute of health shows the bottom of the range as being at 300 (link here). Also, from what I can find, if you account for age, I am REALLY REALLY low (as noted in the ranges here).

I called the Doctor last night and left him a message saying that since I am right on the edge, and I feel like I am having isuses with symptoms, would he at least consider a low dosage of TRT and I could come back in a few months and we could look at the changes. He has not gotten back to me yet (Not that I expected him to do so on the weekend) but I will let you know his response when he does.

I hope I am not forced to go to body logic. Going to a 3rd doctor for the same issue feels wrong somehow... Like I am just searching for a doctor to give me the answer I am looking for...

Different labs differ in their results from the same test. Therefore, they have different ranges for normal. I wouldn't put much stock into the number. Basically, you're doctor's point is that the binding protein is low, therefore meaning more of the total testosterone (the number you're fixating on) is available to act as a hormone.

 

[Lazarus52980]

Basically, you're doctor's point is that the binding protein is low, therefore meaning more of the total testosterone (the number you're fixating on) is available to act as a hormone.

If I understand what you are saying correctly, are you saying you don't think that my total testosterone is an issue?

 

[Lazarus52980]

Well, since the doctor at the U of M has not returned my call from Sunday, I contacted Body Logic a few moments ago.

My only concern about them is that it does not look like they take insurance... Has anyone here used Body Logic? How does billing work?

 

[Lazarus52980]

Looks like I acted too soon with Body Logic. I just receivied the following message from the Doctor:

Mr XXXX - we can give a trial of testosterone treatment and see if you find it helpful. My suspicion is that your testosterone levels are not in a range that would be causing symptoms but it is difficult to know with certainty when levels are borderline.

I suggest we try a testosterone gel - Androgel - it comes in a pump dispenser and you would apply 2 pumps once a day to the upper arms and shoulders. Let it dry (about 30 sec) and then put your shirt on. Wash your hands well after applying it. Suggest applying either in morning or at bedtime. Do not shower or bathe right after applying it or you would obviously wash it off.

We will send a prescription to your pharm and I will have our clinic contact you to set up an appointment in about 2 months.

Give me a call or send my chart note if any questions - Dr. Redmon XXX XXX-XXXX

If there is still interest in this issue, I will post a journal of sorts once I get the gel and start using it.

If no, thank you to everyone who helped me with getting this far. I appreciate it.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Looks like I acted too soon with Body Logic. I just receivied the following message from the Doctor:



If there is still interest in this issue, I will post a journal of sorts once I get the gel and start using it.

If no, thank you to everyone who helped me with getting this far. I appreciate it.

I'd be interested in hearing about it. Granted, I haven't been in the discussion much, but I'm curious to hear a first-hand experience with the hormone replacement therapy in a borderline case. I hope it helps! And thanks for the updates.

 

[Corporate Thug]

My test was around 325. My primary care physican feels it shouldn't be treated, yet will prescribe me Lovaza as soon as my triglycerides go a little in the red and Benecar HCT as soon as my blood pressure goes up.

You have to realize many times entering this arena requires you to be in it for life.

Definitely eliminate anything that could be causing it other than simply your body has dwindled it's production. Also many of the TRT/HRT forums are sadly pissing contests with those that lost their nuts thinking use that are still intact are simply trying to cheat the system and get 'legal steroids'.

The 100-200mg dosages of Testosterone once a week is nothing like those that abuse steroids will use. They are usually doing multiple doses at 500MG or more a week + stacking other anabolics at the same time.

Holy crap that sounds like a lot! I have low T (around 200 w/o injections) and 50cc EVERY TWO WEEKS boosted me into 400+ in a flash.

 

[alkemyst]

Holy crap that sounds like a lot! I have low T (around 200 w/o injections) and 50cc EVERY TWO WEEKS boosted me into 400+ in a flash.

Well for one, injections every two weeks are usually bad mojo for many people and two, there is a reason you keep getting tested every couple months.

Three, there is no harm in trying to run at max normal levels .

I get my first blood tests next week, it will be eight weeks since I started at that point.

Most get into all this biblical battles over TRT, but John Hopkins did a lot of the research that lead to this therapy and even 200mg a week I believe is within their guidelines.

Abusers are taking 4+x that and stacking it with other anabolics.

 

[Emultra]

Supposedly injections are the only real deal, with gels a distant second and patches last.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Well for one, injections every two weeks are usually bad mojo for many people and two, there is a reason you keep getting tested every couple months.

Three, there is no harm in trying to run at max normal levels .

I get my first blood tests next week, it will be eight weeks since I started at that point.

Most get into all this biblical battles over TRT, but John Hopkins did a lot of the research that lead to this therapy and even 200mg a week I believe is within their guidelines.

Abusers are taking 4+x that and stacking it with other anabolics.

alky, the only drawback I was told about for the 2 week cycle is that you get peaks and valleys (i.e. you are probably at max level in first 72 hours, in the middle at the end of the week, and low again approaching before getting the second shot on day 14. DO you know of any other negative effects?

My doc said I can cut my dose in half and get the injections once a week but it is really an inconvenience for me (the whole process takes a solid 2 hours for me w/ my drive so it's quite an hassle to do it every week).

 

[Corporate Thug]

Supposedly injections are the only real deal, with gels a distant second and patches last.

I got solid results with the gel as well, not as good as injections, but still definite improvement. You also get an even amount per since it's applied on a daily basis. Also, the gel is pretty damn convenient and I did not experience any side effects (I have terrible bacne now w/ the injections which requires oral antibiotics and topical gel to treat, no such effect w/ gel). I'm actually considering going back to the gel.