Texas child immigration detention center denies UN human rights inspectors access

[chucky2]

It's not going to be one person though, you know it's going to be multiple investigators.

The money wasted on this - and it will be a waste as the US already has infrastructre to check into this, thus not needing the UN - could be better put to use feeding some starving kid, or vaccinating people for some disease, etc.

This is a PR stunt by the ACLU and aided by the UN. That's it.

Chuck

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: chucky2

This is a PR stunt by the ACLU and aided by the UN. That's it.

Chuck

Yeah, it's innappropriate to have UN inspections until the U.S. courts are finished with it anyway.

Fern

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Wait, so, the US demands other nations abide by UN resolutions, Security Council rulings, etc but refuse to abide by this UN request?

No wonder we're seen worldwide as the kings of hypocrisy.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: CPA
Don't we already have several agencies to monitor facilities like this?

The UN needs to get the hell out of here.

yip. screw the UN why dont they go tour a prison in mexico. that alone would keep them busy for decades. im pretty sure no mistreatment was practice against the people in the detention center and they got plenty of food, water, activities. as far as the post by rightiswrong about why the ACLU filed the suit, i dont belive a word of it.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Wait, so, the US demands other nations abide by UN resolutions, Security Council rulings, etc but refuse to abide by this UN request?

No wonder we're seen worldwide as the kings of hypocrisy.

umm yea. dude you know as well as everybody here that prisoners or in this case detained illegals are treated like people and treated very well. they get hot food, A/C, heat, beds, showers, vermin free... we dont need the UN to come in and inspect us or any other modern western society.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: CPA
Don't we already have several agencies to monitor facilities like this?

The UN needs to get the hell out of here.

yip. screw the UN why dont they go tour a prison in mexico. that alone would keep them busy for decades. im pretty sure no mistreatment was practice against the people in the detention center and they got plenty of food, water, activities. as far as the post by rightiswrong about why the ACLU filed the suit, i dont belive a word of it.

They probably already have/do. This kind of Inspection would take a few days at most and is probably done 100's of times a year world wide. Why all the opposition to it? If everything is fine, the Inspector will find nothing.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: CPA
Don't we already have several agencies to monitor facilities like this?

The UN needs to get the hell out of here.

yip. screw the UN why dont they go tour a prison in mexico. that alone would keep them busy for decades. im pretty sure no mistreatment was practice against the people in the detention center and they got plenty of food, water, activities. as far as the post by rightiswrong about why the ACLU filed the suit, i dont belive a word of it.

If there are Mexican citizens being mistreated why the hell isn't the Mexican goverment making arrangements for their return?

Instead we get some latin professor of sociolgy wanting to inspect the prison conditions? This Dr. Bustamante is the President and founder of El Colegio de la Frontera Norte, the prominent Mexican institute for the study of border issues. and has plenty of contacts in Mexico. I'm sure he could make arangemnts to get these people returned home, but it seems he would rather sit back and critisize us until we give in and let them in.



Sorry, but if their own people are only using them as pawns then why should I care about them? I have my own friends and family to worry about.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: CPA
Don't we already have several agencies to monitor facilities like this?

The UN needs to get the hell out of here.

yip. screw the UN why dont they go tour a prison in mexico. that alone would keep them busy for decades. im pretty sure no mistreatment was practice against the people in the detention center and they got plenty of food, water, activities. as far as the post by rightiswrong about why the ACLU filed the suit, i dont belive a word of it.

They probably already have/do. This kind of Inspection would take a few days at most and is probably done 100's of times a year world wide. Why all the opposition to it? If everything is fine, the Inspector will find nothing.

The reason to do inspections is to see if any changes should be made.

Again, I see no reason to inspect before the courts are done with it. It's a waste. If the inspectors come in first, then go back and write a report, then the courts come in and make changes, what value would the UN report be? Whatever they saw has already been changed by the courts and the report is now irrelevenat because those conditions no longer exist (via court order).

After the courts are finished is when it's time for the UN to inspect if they still feel the need to do so.

Fern

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: CPA
Don't we already have several agencies to monitor facilities like this?

The UN needs to get the hell out of here.

yip. screw the UN why dont they go tour a prison in mexico. that alone would keep them busy for decades. im pretty sure no mistreatment was practice against the people in the detention center and they got plenty of food, water, activities. as far as the post by rightiswrong about why the ACLU filed the suit, i dont belive a word of it.

They probably already have/do. This kind of Inspection would take a few days at most and is probably done 100's of times a year world wide. Why all the opposition to it? If everything is fine, the Inspector will find nothing.

The reason to do inspections is to see if any changes should be made.

Again, I see no reason to inspect before the courts are done with it. It's a waste. If the inspectors come in first, then go back and write a report, then the courts come in and make changes, what value would the UN report be? Whatever they saw has already been changed by the courts and the report is now irrelevenat because those conditions no longer exist (via court order).

After the courts are finished is when it's time for the UN to inspect if they still feel the need to do so.

Fern

That's not a reason to object to it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: sandorski

That's not a reason to object to it.

It is at this time.

Fern

 

[CrackRabbit]

Interesting, I grew up about 15 miles from Taylor and about 20 from Hutto.
I never knew there was an illegal immigrant detention center there.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: sandorski

That's not a reason to object to it.

It is at this time.

Fern

Why? At worse it might be redundant and that's it.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: Citrix
umm yea. dude you know as well as everybody here that prisoners or in this case detained illegals are treated like people and treated very well. they get hot food, A/C, heat, beds, showers, vermin free... we dont need the UN to come in and inspect us or any other modern western society.

So, then, if all is well, there will be zero worries about the inspections and we can actually show the rest of the world that we ourselves comply with the UN as we demand of all others... even to the point of invasion for non-compliance.

Or does the opinion of the UN only matter when it coincides with US interests and geopolitical desires?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: Citrix
umm yea. dude you know as well as everybody here that prisoners or in this case detained illegals are treated like people and treated very well. they get hot food, A/C, heat, beds, showers, vermin free... we dont need the UN to come in and inspect us or any other modern western society.

So, then, if all is well, there will be zero worries about the inspections and we can actually show the rest of the world that we ourselves comply with the UN as we demand of all others... even to the point of invasion for non-compliance.

Or does the opinion of the UN only matter when it coincides with US interests and geopolitical desires?

Yeah, the UN is sooo perfect, don't you think? We can trust them over our own courts and should just drop our pants and bend over every time they say so.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: sandorski

That's not a reason to object to it.

It is at this time.

Fern

Why? At worse it might be redundant and that's it.

I'm thinking it might be more of a "waste" than redundant. But that's only if the courts order them to make some changes.

I think we should allow the U.N. to do an inspection if they wish (as much I think they are an incompetent and biased organization).

I'm just saying let the courts do what they will. If there are changes, then have the U.N. come in after the changes are if effect and see if they then approve.

To come in b4 the courts make changes will likely be a waste and strikes me more as playing "gotcha" than anything really useful.

Fern

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the UN is sooo perfect, don't you think? We can trust them over our own courts and should just drop our pants and bend over every time they say so.

Who said that?

Either we comply with the UN ourselves or we stop invading nations based on their non-compliance with the UN and stop demanding others comply with the UN.

I think we all know the reality is the UN in meaningless to Americans unless it is serving our interests.

Again, this is why we are now widely hated outside our own borders and this hatred, and our continued hubris, arrogance and hypocrisy, only contribute to the decline of the American empire.

 

[chucky2]

Even though I totally agree that the UN's purpose in inspecting some facility in the US is to do a "Gotcha!" and parade it around to the rest of the world, I do think they should be allowed to inspect here.

After they do, they then need to provide a valid reason, not a political Because we go where there is injustness type BS answer on why they've just p1ssed away money better spent elsewhere.

If they cannot do that, then we simply should not contribute money to them, as they are largely ineffective at what they do. If all the time the UN says/does something and it takes the US being the "arrogant" to make the will of the UN stick, then I say F the UN.

It's way past time to let the UN stand on its own without controlling member states and all that BS. Have straight Up or Down or Abstain votes and let the world make itself what it will. When the rest of the world is in utter shambles and begging for bailouts (even more than they do now), then we can simply forward all their requests over to the countries that have b1tched about American "arrogance".

Same thing for Israel, we should just go totally hands off. The Arab and Palestinian world thinks they've got it bad now...WTF do they think would happen if we didn't actually reign the Israeli's in?

OK, rant over...

Chuck

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Wait, so, the US demands other nations abide by UN resolutions, Security Council rulings, etc but refuse to abide by this UN request?

No wonder we're seen worldwide as the kings of hypocrisy.

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the UN is sooo perfect, don't you think? We can trust them over our own courts and should just drop our pants and bend over every time they say so.

Who said that?

Either we comply with the UN ourselves or we stop invading nations based on their non-compliance with the UN and stop demanding others comply with the UN.

I think we all know the reality is the UN in meaningless to Americans unless it is serving our interests.

Again, this is why we are now widely hated outside our own borders and this hatred, and our continued hubris, arrogance and hypocrisy, only contribute to the decline of the American empire.

What exactly does a holding center for illegal aliens have to do with the UN. Are they going to check out the illegal aliens Mexico has in there prisons too?

Yeah, I didn't think so. It seems to me it's the UN who is the hypocrit here and the US is footing the bill. WAKE UP Francis, methinks you've been in the outback too long.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the UN is sooo perfect, don't you think? We can trust them over our own courts and should just drop our pants and bend over every time they say so.

Who said that?

Either we comply with the UN ourselves or we stop invading nations based on their non-compliance with the UN and stop demanding others comply with the UN.

I think we all know the reality is the UN in meaningless to Americans unless it is serving our interests.

Again, this is why we are now widely hated outside our own borders and this hatred, and our continued hubris, arrogance and hypocrisy, only contribute to the decline of the American empire.

Didn't read this thread but randomly found your post and you're entirely correct.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the UN is sooo perfect, don't you think? We can trust them over our own courts and should just drop our pants and bend over every time they say so.

Who said that?

Either we comply with the UN ourselves or we stop invading nations based on their non-compliance with the UN and stop demanding others comply with the UN.

I think we all know the reality is the UN in meaningless to Americans unless it is serving our interests.

Again, this is why we are now widely hated outside our own borders and this hatred, and our continued hubris, arrogance and hypocrisy, only contribute to the decline of the American empire.

Didn't read this thread but randomly found your post and you're entirely correct.

The UN has to be fair to everyone, if they check us then they need to check others, UNLESS they can show good reason why we need checked and Mexico doesn't. LOL, that's a good one.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the UN is sooo perfect, don't you think? We can trust them over our own courts and should just drop our pants and bend over every time they say so.

Who said that?

Either we comply with the UN ourselves or we stop invading nations based on their non-compliance with the UN and stop demanding others comply with the UN.

I think we all know the reality is the UN in meaningless to Americans unless it is serving our interests.

Again, this is why we are now widely hated outside our own borders and this hatred, and our continued hubris, arrogance and hypocrisy, only contribute to the decline of the American empire.

Didn't read this thread but randomly found your post and you're entirely correct.

The UN has to be fair to everyone, if they check us then they need to check others, UNLESS they can show good reason why we need checked and Mexico doesn't. LOL, that's a good one.

You're assuming this is the first time ever they inspected anything. Unless you know for a fact that it is, you may want to reconsider your position.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the UN is sooo perfect, don't you think? We can trust them over our own courts and should just drop our pants and bend over every time they say so.

Who said that?

Either we comply with the UN ourselves or we stop invading nations based on their non-compliance with the UN and stop demanding others comply with the UN.

I think we all know the reality is the UN in meaningless to Americans unless it is serving our interests.

Again, this is why we are now widely hated outside our own borders and this hatred, and our continued hubris, arrogance and hypocrisy, only contribute to the decline of the American empire.

Didn't read this thread but randomly found your post and you're entirely correct.

The UN has to be fair to everyone, if they check us then they need to check others, UNLESS they can show good reason why we need checked and Mexico doesn't. LOL, that's a good one.

You're assuming this is the first time ever they inspected anything. Unless you know for a fact that it is, you may want to reconsider your position.

I'll gladly reconsider my opinion as soon as someone showes me where the UN is inspecting the living conditions of illegal aliens in other countires prisons, particularly Mexican prisons. If they're not doing that then they have no business inspecting ours.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the UN is sooo perfect, don't you think? We can trust them over our own courts and should just drop our pants and bend over every time they say so.

Who said that?

Either we comply with the UN ourselves or we stop invading nations based on their non-compliance with the UN and stop demanding others comply with the UN.

I think we all know the reality is the UN in meaningless to Americans unless it is serving our interests.

Again, this is why we are now widely hated outside our own borders and this hatred, and our continued hubris, arrogance and hypocrisy, only contribute to the decline of the American empire.

Didn't read this thread but randomly found your post and you're entirely correct.

The UN has to be fair to everyone, if they check us then they need to check others, UNLESS they can show good reason why we need checked and Mexico doesn't. LOL, that's a good one.

You're assuming this is the first time ever they inspected anything. Unless you know for a fact that it is, you may want to reconsider your position.

I'll gladly reconsider my opinion as soon as someone showes me where the UN is inspecting the living conditions of illegal aliens in other countires prisons, particularly Mexican prisons. If they're not doing that then they have no business inspecting ours.

One example

It's for Togo. Was hoping to find a list somewhere of all Prisons Inspected and perhaps would have found it, but that's one example. It's not like the UN just decided to Inspect 1 prison out of the blue.

Found a couple links to British willingness to have their Prisons Inspected as well.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Yeah, the UN is sooo perfect, don't you think? We can trust them over our own courts and should just drop our pants and bend over every time they say so.

Who said that?

Either we comply with the UN ourselves or we stop invading nations based on their non-compliance with the UN and stop demanding others comply with the UN.

I think we all know the reality is the UN in meaningless to Americans unless it is serving our interests.

Again, this is why we are now widely hated outside our own borders and this hatred, and our continued hubris, arrogance and hypocrisy, only contribute to the decline of the American empire.

Didn't read this thread but randomly found your post and you're entirely correct.

The UN has to be fair to everyone, if they check us then they need to check others, UNLESS they can show good reason why we need checked and Mexico doesn't. LOL, that's a good one.

You're assuming this is the first time ever they inspected anything. Unless you know for a fact that it is, you may want to reconsider your position.

I'll gladly reconsider my opinion as soon as someone showes me where the UN is inspecting the living conditions of illegal aliens in other countires prisons, particularly Mexican prisons. If they're not doing that then they have no business inspecting ours.

One example

It's for Togo. Was hoping to find a list somewhere of all Prisons Inspected and perhaps would have found it, but that's one example. It's not like the UN just decided to Inspect 1 prison out of the blue.

Found a couple links to British willingness to have their Prisons Inspected as well.

Your link is to a prison inspection by the Special Rapporteur for the Comimittee on Torture which is completley different committe. This is the Special Rapporteur for the Committee on Migrant Workers, of which we never signed up to. I don't believe they even have a claim to come and inspect our detention centers.

See list of 28 Signatories & 36 Parties

Mexico signed up for it and has ratified it.

Mexico
Interpretative declaration:

Upon ratifying the [Convention], the Government of the United Mexican States reaffirms its political will to ensure international protection of the rights of all migrant workers, in accordance with this international instrument. all the provisions of this Convention will be applied in conformity with its national legislation.

Reservation:

The Government of the United Mexican States makes an express reservation with regard to article 22, paragraph 4, of this Convention, insofar as it refers to the application of article 33 of the Political Constitution of the United Mexican States and article 125 of the General Population Act.

Go figure, here is what they have reservations about. It's page 39 of a pdf file so I have to type it out:

http://www.ohchr.org/english/about/publications/docs/fs24rev1.pdf

Article 22, paragraph 4

4. Except where a final decision is pronounced by a judicial authority, the person concerned shall have the right to submit the reason he or she should not be expelled and to have his or her case reviewed by the compoetant authority, unless compelling reasons of national security requirte otherwise. Pending such review, the person concerned shall have the right to seek a stay of the decision of expulsion.

In other words when Mexico expells someone they have no right to have the case reviewed. They don't care.

Now, since Mexico is participating in and has ratified this program I wonder if they have been inspected?

Edit: After a further research I found a list of inspections. 11 inspections so far and I see Mexico has been visited.
http://www.ohchr.org/english/issues/migration/rapporteur/visits.htm

It's a rather interesting read about how Mexico treats illegals. Start with page 8 of the pdf, paragraph 16 where it states that undocmumented migrants can face up to 10 years in jail just for being there illegally.

PDF of report