In spite of quoting him you completely missed his point - that every part of the first world except the USA already has the system you say we must adopt and yet has done utterly nothing to provide a cure or a vaccination for Ebolla.
My points weren't about the U.S. health care system vs. the single payer systems of other countries. I'm sure you're aware that those countries have not copied wholesale each other's systems and that there are several variations on the idea.
They're about about Professor Hill's contentions that the free market motivations of for profit Pharmaceutical companies haven't been sufficient motivation to develop Ebola vaccines, because the market for those drugs have prior to 2014 been "too small."
As for that other guy...
I understand his point.
The problem is his posts have conflated two separate (albeit related) categories of entities, so that he could employ the use of profanity as a substitute for a reasoned reply.
Pharmaceutical companies aren't under the authority of any health care systems. They do research and development into drugs/medicines that they then sell to customers (under regulatory constraints imposed by government regulations to ensure that the devlopment of such drugs is carried out as safely as possible) around the world.
Their customers include hospitals and individuals with insurance. The health care systems of some countries do leverage their buying power and obtain medicines at cheaper prices compared to other countries. An example of this was illustrated by various news stories about U.S. citizens in the north who would cross into Canada to obtain medicine to fill their prescriptions at lower costs than buying the same medicines in the States.
It is a fundamental mistake to conflate the pharmaceutical industry which developes medicines to treat illnesses and health care systems which exist to deliver health care (including drugs and medicines when necessary) to citizens within the countries those health care systems operate in.
Considering the preceding statement it misses the point to argue that since socialized healthcare hasn't developed a cure for Ebola one shouldn't criticize the profit driven pharma industry for not developing a cure either. Why does it miss the point?
Because as stated previously they are not the same things, even though they interact with each other and customers of drug companies don't necessarily come from the same countries as those companies.
My linked article to which the person assumed that pharma and health care systems are one and the same then ended with
isn't a call for by the Professor, who's a lead in a country's response to ebola, for all countries to adopted single payer health care systems.
The article more about Professor Hill's explanation as to why profit driven pharma companies failed developed an ebola vaccine that could have prevented the current outbreak from claiming so many lives. While it is almost certainly Professor Hill's view that single payer health care systems are better, that wasn't the focus of the article I linked to.
There is no real profit for big pharma to develop an ebola vaccine even if initial research has yielded experimental drugs.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ictims-why-9716615.html?origin=internalSearch
However, Professor Hill said that the fact that a vaccine had not been available to stop the disease when it emerged in Guinea six months ago represented a "market failure" of the commercial system of vaccine production which is dominated by the pharmaceutical giants.
Already, the experimental drug ZMapp, developed by Mapp, a small biopharmaceutical firm in the US, has been used to treat at least seven patients – four of them Westerners – and has shown promising results in trials on primates. Stocks have now run out, but Mapp has been handed $25m (£15m) by the US government to scale up production.
$25 million is a bucket for an industry in which the largest players are collectively raking in billions in net profits (not revenue.... profits). Mapp is a smaller company whose work on Ebola isn't so profitable hence the appropriation by the U.S. government.
Professor Hill explained that the GSK/NIH vaccine, which is based on a strain of chimpanzee cold virus and known as ChAd3, was originally developed in the US for potential use against a bio-terror attack – and only existed because of high levels of funding allocated to vaccines designated for defence.
Asked why a fully tested and licensed vaccine had not been developed, Professor Hill said: "Well, who makes vaccines? Today, commercial vaccine supply is monopolised by four or five mega- companies – GSK, Sanofi, Merck, Pfizer – some of the biggest companies in the world.
"The problem with that is, even if you've got a way of making a vaccine, unless there's a big market, it's not worth the while of a mega-company …. There was no business case to make an Ebola vaccine for the people who needed it most: first because of the nature of the outbreak; second, the number of people likely to be affected was, until now, thought to be very small; and third, the fact that the people affected are in some of the poorest countries in the world and can't afford to pay for a new vaccine. It's a market failure."
If you read through the article Professor Hill isn't calling for single payer health care for all countries he is explaining why "free market" motivations have resulted in Pharma companies moving slowly on the development an ebola vaccine even though the existence of experimental treatments very convincingly shows that it is within the realm of possibility.
Big pharma is great at developing new drugs for heart disease, diabetes, various cancers and other common ailments because they're common, have a much larger customer base, and it's much more likely that companies will yield profits from those areas of R&D.
Unfortunately while the above paragraph illustrates a strength of the free market in motivating Big Pharma to develop many categories of drugs, it is not very effective in motivating those companies to develop vaccines for diseases like Ebola very quickly.
Even if they were more profitable than they already are (from countries paying them whatever fees they wanted) how likely is it that they would turn around and sink those profits into research into diseases like ebola instead of more profitable drugs... or better compensation packages for executvie officers and board members. If free market forces were effective for motivating development of deadly disease vaccines by themselves then those drugs have been available to curb the current outbreak of ebola.... right?
Here is link to another person who made the same point as Professor Hill
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ebola-vaccine/story?id=24796130
Though Ebola was first discovered nearly four decades ago, there’s still no vaccine that’s regularly administered to humans to prevent it.
But why?
“There’s always the layperson’s query of ‘Why don’t they rush this?’ ‘Why don’t these guys work a little later at night?’” said Dr. Willian Schaffner, chair of preventive medicine at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee. “It’s a little more complicated than that.”
Because Ebola cases are so rare, drug manufacturers hadn’t been interested in investing in finding its vaccine, Schaffner said. In addition, Ebola’s rarity makes it impossible for scientists to do field studies, which they were able to do with viruses like measles, which people were likely to be exposed to anyway because it was so common.
Because "business considerations" don't provide enough of a motive for Drug Companies develop these vaccines it is a failure to expect them to do so. That is why an alternative method to the "free market"of developing vaccines for diseases like Ebola are needed. The only other method that seems viable is the public funding that research and development.
Saying that the public entities have failed as well is also correct. However, a well informed public in democratic countries has a better chance (collectively) of influencing public entities like the National Institute for Health and the WHO than they do with influencing Big Pharma.
The failure of public entities to act reflects on citizens' failure to signal to elected officials that it is a necessary concern, but it doesn't change the fact that Professor Hill's statements are also relevant to the discussion. In other words it is a result of electing Tea Party candidates (in the U.S.) and other officials who insist on extreme austerity measures as a sound and proven fiscal policy when that is still very much up for debate.
What do you seriously think that a Tea Party congress member or other politician who subscribes to the idea of austerity would have said to the suggestion that public funding be made available for investments into ebola treatment research like Mapp is working on? Before this outbreak it definitely would be along the lines of "Hell no."
The poster whose point(s)view you suggested that I am misunderstanding doesn't argue the opposing view (to that of Professor Hill's) with any logic.
Instead, he just conflates two different, albeit related, entities (pharma companies and different health care systems) then uses profanity because the he apparently takes it as a personal affront if anyone suggests that free market solutions aren't always the best methods of getting things done. (see posts 347 and 349)
Sorry, but that is not the posture of a person who wants to have a reasoned discussion and because of that I don't feel any obligation to treat him as if he that kind of poster. This thread is not the only one in that has been the case either...
Werepossum, I don't recall you resorting to profanity because you disagree with someone...
that dirtbag however,
You're right, I can't be bothered, because you're a fucking buffoon.
So....
Fuck that filthy piece of mentally challenged, anal breath having excrement.
.....