Texas Gov. Rick Perry: Americans have no right to freedom from religion

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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Through the establishment clause Americans have a freedom from religion that is sponsored or endorsed by the state. Considering the context of Mr. Perry's case, this is clearly what he was trying to do.

In this sense, a freedom from religion is clearly true.

By your interpretation it would seem we should forbid swearing oaths of office on bibles.

Seems like an implicit endorsement of Christianity by the government to me

Also wait for you to advocate for removing Christmas as a federal holiday.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,717
25,054
136
By your interpretation it would seem we should forbid swearing oaths of office on bibles.

Seems like an implicit endorsement of Christianity by the government to me

Also wait for you to advocate for removing Christmas as a federal holiday.

You cool with swearing in using the Koran?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
By your interpretation it would seem we should forbid swearing oaths of office on bibles.

Seems like an implicit endorsement of Christianity by the government to me

No one is required to take any oath on the bible, everyone is free to affirm in whatever way they wish. The swearing of the oath is not performing any function of the office that they are swearing into.

Also wait for you to advocate for removing Christmas as a federal holiday.

The courts have already decided this one.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
As much as I hate religion, doesn't it seem pointless or even counterproductive to get excited every time people want to perform certain rituals? What's the concern? Is it for protection? There's no threat from casual exposure to religion. Tell your kids to wear their anthropological hats when the other kids start praying, or something, instead of spewing this unproductive hate which only serves to galvanize them. The US should leave Texas alone. Let Perry sort em out.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
Through the establishment clause Americans have a freedom from religion that is sponsored or endorsed by the state. Considering the context of Mr. Perry's case, this is clearly what he was trying to do.

In this sense, a freedom from religion is clearly true.

"Freedom of religion" allows anyone who wants to practice whatever religion they want (as long as the practice of such does not impact the freedoms of other people, i.e. no virgin sacrifices, etc.)

Nowhere in the literal translation or the "spirit" of the translation does it imply that people have freedom "from" religion, in that they have the right to restrict the religious practice of others.

What that means is that if someone wants to pray in a public place, you have no right to stop them.

This is different than separation of church and state. The idea behind that doctrine is that the US is not a theocracy and should not ever be. The federal government must treat all religions the same and cannot pick a "winner" over the others. Nor can the federal government compel people to practice any specific religion (including atheism.)

So, having established all that, the notion that "Americans have freedom from religion" is clearly false.


In a sense both of you are right. If a person does not wish to go to church, pray to a god or believe they do not have to. they can not be forced by the government to do any of it. If you do not beleive they cant punish you for it.

But a person also has a right to pray in public, put up signs in the yard (or of santa!) etc. You have the freedom not to worship but not the freedom to not hear of it if am talking in public.

NOBODY should have the right to say i can't have manger in my yard or such.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Is this the same Rick Perry that wanted to force all them christian girls in his state on Gardasil for the benefit of his buddies at Merck.

Oh yes, yes it is.

http://www.naturalnews.com/033705_Gardasil_Rick_Perry.html

Texas Gov. Rick Perry's failed plot to force Merck & Co.'s Gardasil vaccine on millions of young girls in the Lone Star State has sparked renewed interest among Americans, as to what all the controversy is about concerning the vaccine

The mainstream media's response to the incident has included a lot of whitewashing, as well as a full-scale damage control operation to reaffirm the supposed safety of Gardasil, which is alleged by Merck to prevent human papillomavirus (HPV) and some forms of cervical cancer. But the cat is out of the bag as thousands of curious Americans, many for the first time, are learning about the very real dangers associated with the Gardasil vaccine.

And now he is concerned with Christians rights.

 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
By your interpretation it would seem we should forbid swearing oaths of office on bibles.

Seems like an implicit endorsement of Christianity by the government to me

Also wait for you to advocate for removing Christmas as a federal holiday.

I actually think that all oaths of office should be sworn on a copy of the Constitution. That's what they're swearing to uphold afterall. If they want to also have a Bible, Koran, copy of The Origin of Species, whatever then ok. But it should ALWAYS be beneath the copy of the Constitution. Public officials in this country should hold the Constitution above all other things, even their own faith, when they legislate of make rulings (in the case of judges).
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
No one is required to take any oath on the bible, everyone is free to affirm in whatever way they wish. The swearing of the oath is not performing any function of the office that they are swearing into.

You are saying that being sworn into an office is not a function of the office

The courts have already decided this one.

You are saying that the courts have decided that government can endorse religion.

I actually think that all oaths of office should be sworn on a copy of the Constitution. That's what they're swearing to uphold afterall. If they want to also have a Bible, Koran, copy of The Origin of Species, whatever then ok. But it should ALWAYS be beneath the copy of the Constitution. Public officials in this country should hold the Constitution above all other things, even their own faith, when they legislate of make rulings (in the case of judges).

:thumbsup:
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,602
29,319
136
Please show us on the doll where the Christian touched you.

Also, did you know liberals want to take your childen and make them worship Democrats? That you can get HIV from toilet seats?

I haven't read the bill but if Christians can say "merry Christmas" without fear then that's a good thing. If anyone greets or wishes another goodwill based on any cultural or religious perspective, why should that be banned? What fools they be.
It seems you have missed my point entirely. I am neither condemning nor condoning this bill. I am just predicting that in the near future, jihadwatch will misinterpret this bill to illustrate how Sharia Law is infiltrating Texas, and it is Obama's fault.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
It's all well and good until we've got ramadan mubarak banners hanging up in public.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
You are saying that being sworn into an office is not a function of the office

You're a moron. I'm saying that the way in which someone individually chooses to take their oath of office is not an act of government. The government requires an oath, but does not specify how that oath is taken.

You are saying that the courts have decided that government can endorse religion.

No, the courts have decided that so long as the government can identify a secular purpose for a day they can recognize a day that may also have religious significance.

These are my last answers to you on this, by the way. No interest in watching you embarrass yourself on this topic too.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
You're a moron. I'm saying that the way in which someone individually chooses to take their oath of office is not an act of government. The government requires an oath, but does not specify how that oath is taken.

And if a government official takes that oath on a holy book that constitutes an implicit endorsement of religion by the government.

No, the courts have decided that so long as the government can identify a secular purpose for a day they can recognize a day that may also have religious significance.

And so then saying "Merry Christmas" and having Christmas parties at school should be perfectly acceptable.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
0
NOBODY should have the right to say i can't have manger in my yard or such.

Are those people pro-manger or pro-freedom? Because the pro-manger would argue that having a statue of a giant penis in your front yard is unacceptable.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
The First Amendment guarantees four things. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and um ... um ... I forget the fourth thing. Oops.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,131
5,658
126
You'd think he had learned something when he Prayed for Rain and got Fire.

Like a dog that returns to its' vomit.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
The First Amendment guarantees four things. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and um ... um ... I forget the fourth thing. Oops.

Freedom of not freedom from. There is a big difference.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Nothing he talks about related to congress establishing a national religion or congress passing a law that prohibits the exercise of certain religions.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,131
5,658
126
Freedom of not freedom from. There is a big difference.



Nothing he talks about related to congress establishing a national religion or congress passing a law that prohibits the exercise of certain religions.

There isn't a big difference. In order to have "freedom of", by default one has to have "freedom from". The Protestant has the freedom of practicing their brand of Protestantism and the freedom from Catholicism, for eg. You can't have one without the other.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
There isn't a big difference. In order to have "freedom of", by default one has to have "freedom from". The Protestant has the freedom of practicing their brand of Protestantism and the freedom from Catholicism, for eg. You can't have one without the other.

Huh? That makes no sense.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
There isn't a big difference. In order to have "freedom of", by default one has to have "freedom from". The Protestant has the freedom of practicing their brand of Protestantism and the freedom from Catholicism, for eg. You can't have one without the other.

Think about it.

Think about what?
Congress has neither established a national religion or prohibited the exercise of certain religions.

A Christmas decoration for instance neither establishes a national religion or prohibits the exercise of other religions.

If you are arguing that there must be a void of religion to exercise religion makes no sense and would imply that atheism in its self is a religion if the existence of religion prohibits its exercise.

Seems to me there is no constitutional right to exercise the lack of religion.
Unless atheism is a religion. But then its not atheism. Universe explodes.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
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If this bill protects teachers so they can say Merry Christmas without some moron suing them then good. This will make the progressives angry so it's a good bill.

It would be nice if he was this concerned about the economy though.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,131
5,658
126
Think about what?
Congress has neither established a national religion or prohibited the exercise of certain religions.

A Christmas decoration for instance neither establishes a national religion or prohibits the exercise of other religions.

If you are arguing that there must be a void of religion to exercise religion makes no sense and would imply that atheism in its self is a religion if the existence of religion prohibits its exercise.

Seems to me there is no constitutional right to exercise the lack of religion.
Unless atheism is a religion. But then its not atheism. Universe explodes.

You don't need a void, you need the freedom from other religion. If that means all Religion, so be it, how can there be that freedom if one is forced to have one?

As for decorations and what not, the issue is about promotion, not by decree, but by the use of Public property. When there are Churches/Religious structures all over the place that exist without even paying Taxes, why TF do they need to put their shit on Public Property?
 
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