Texas Grid is on the Edge Again!

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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
The wind was blowing fine. They shut down wind generation because their transmission lines couldn't handle it.
Wow! What utter morons. I just really don't understand this. If this were happening in New Hampshire, customers would pull every lever they have (mainly the politicians) to get it fixed.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,837
2,101
136
The wind was blowing fine. They shut down wind generation because their transmission lines couldn't handle it.

That seems like a common issue with the Freedumb Grid.

Someone cheaps out and cuts corners in the design phase, probably to hit a bonus. Then when the crap hits the fan, it's someone else's fault.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,120
5,998
136
That seems like a common issue with the Freedumb Grid.

Someone cheaps out and cuts corners in the design phase, probably to hit a bonus. Then when the crap hits the fan, it's someone else's fault.
No, someone takes money from gas interests to sabotage wind's ability to power the state.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo and Ajay

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,120
5,998
136
Wow! What utter morons. I just really don't understand this. If this were happening in New Hampshire, customers would pull every lever they have (mainly the politicians) to get it fixed.
They're not morons. The grid is working exactly as it was designed to by our two most recent governors and the Texas Public Utility Commission. It's a tool used to mine wealth from the people, hence all the gas that gets pulled every day to try to squeeze the price up to the $5500 per MWhr price cap.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
They're not morons. The grid is working exactly as it was designed to by our two most recent governors and the Texas Public Utility Commission. It's a tool used to mine wealth from the people, hence all the gas that gets pulled every day to try to squeeze the price up to the $5500 per MWhr price cap.
Ah, Texas Oil and Gas good ole boy network.
 
Last edited:

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,155
15,774
126
Wow! What utter morons. I just really don't understand this. If this were happening in New Hampshire, customers would pull every lever they have (mainly the politicians) to get it fixed.

power grid is not sexy, new pro sports stadiums are.
 
Reactions: Ajay and hal2kilo

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,967
8,688
136
Gas companies managed to squeeze the price to $5000/MW hr twice today.
I'm sorry but I'm missing something here.

That's $5000 per MWhr. That's about £4000 per MWhr!

I'm tired and a bit stoned but UK electricity costs about £90 per MWhr. And thats in this inflated cost era. I must be mistaken about those prices, here's no way that US electric is that much more!
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,120
5,998
136
I'm sorry but I'm missing something here.

That's $5000 per MWhr. That's about £4000 per MWhr!

I'm tired and a bit stoned but UK electricity costs about £90 per MWhr. And thats in this inflated cost era. I must be mistaken about those prices, here's no way that US electric is that much more!
They try to push wholesale prices that high in peak times. Sometimes they manage to get the price up to $5000 per MWhr for an hour or two. Or in 2021's case they got it to $9000 per MWHr for five days and now we pay a monthly surcharge for that on top of our regular bill. Real time price right now is $23 per MWhr wholesale. It'll go way higher later in the day.

 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,843
13,775
146
I'm sorry but I'm missing something here.

That's $5000 per MWhr. That's about £4000 per MWhr!

I'm tired and a bit stoned but UK electricity costs about £90 per MWhr. And thats in this inflated cost era. I must be mistaken about those prices, here's no way that US electric is that much more!
Here’s a good example:


Right now (morning in Texas) the demand is low so wholesale market prices are less than $30 / MWH - so cheaper than your power price.

However once evening rolls around and the temperature gets really high, everyone’s AC is running and solar and wind drop off then market prices shoot up.

Now the thought here is by raising prices power providers will want to dump power on the grid to get paid more. The more who do this will cause the prices to stabilize and drop and the markets will find the lowest price to provide power. Instead it sure seems like power providers are manipulating their down times to artificially limit production to boost the prices as high as possible - $5000/mwh.

Still I’m on a fixed price contract at $0.126 /kWh or $126/mwh. So they make money when wholesale prices are below $126/mwh but they lose money when wholesale prices are above that. There’s definitely some shenanigans going on.
 
Reactions: MrPickins

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,651
10,515
136
They try to push wholesale prices that high in peak times. Sometimes they manage to get the price up to $5000 per MWhr for an hour or two. Or in 2021's case they got it to $9000 per MWHr for five days and now we pay a monthly surcharge for that on top of our regular bill. Real time price right now is $23 per MWhr wholesale. It'll go way higher later in the day.

Sounds like it's just the usual petroleum use any excuse to raise prices immediately then take their sweet time rolling them back down. Oh yea, it's Texas.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,967
8,688
136
Here’s a good example:

View attachment 85585
Right now (morning in Texas) the demand is low so wholesale market prices are less than $30 / MWH - so cheaper than your power price.

However once evening rolls around and the temperature gets really high, everyone’s AC is running and solar and wind drop off then market prices shoot up.

Now the thought here is by raising prices power providers will want to dump power on the grid to get paid more. The more who do this will cause the prices to stabilize and drop and the markets will find the lowest price to provide power. Instead it sure seems like power providers are manipulating their down times to artificially limit production to boost the prices as high as possible - $5000/mwh.

Still I’m on a fixed price contract at $0.126 /kWh or $126/mwh. So they make money when wholesale prices are below $126/mwh but they lose money when wholesale prices are above that. There’s definitely some shenanigans going on.
Get a big battery bank and charge it up when the electric is cheap!
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,155
15,774
126
I'm sorry but I'm missing something here.

That's $5000 per MWhr. That's about £4000 per MWhr!

I'm tired and a bit stoned but UK electricity costs about £90 per MWhr. And thats in this inflated cost era. I must be mistaken about those prices, here's no way that US electric is that much more!
Everything is bigger in Texas!
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,843
13,775
146
Get a big battery bank and charge it up when the electric is cheap!
Actually I think that’s exactly what Tesla is doing. They are acting like a power provider and allowing their power wall customers to provide power to grid during high demand times and then splitting the proceeds with them.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,022
599
126
Get a big battery bank and charge it up when the electric is cheap!

There is actually a boom in power grid-attached battery storage capacity here in Texas. It makes sense to buy(charge) low and sell high when the prices have such a wild variance.

I'm hoping that will help the state expand the renewables even further, but I won't be surprised if the lack of good transmission lines limits that.
 
Reactions: Ken g6

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,354
11,729
136
I wouldn't be surprised to see the state "confiscate" the stored power during times of emergency....MAYBE reimburse folks at the normal wholesale price.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,510
27,814
136
I wouldn't be surprised to see the state "confiscate" the stored power during times of emergency....MAYBE reimburse folks at the normal wholesale price.
Most (all?) jurisdictions require storage systems to have transfer switches to prevent backflow to the grid.
 
Reactions: MrPickins

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
I'm pretty sure a lot of people regret making that move to your now second world power grid state and also fascist state. I've read plenty of stories of people who are now locked into low interest rates and even with the profit they'd make can't afford to move to get the fuck out of that shit hole state, without having to move to another shithole state.

The cool liberal cities just got way too crowded, too much traffic, weather is way more shitty, no beaches, no mountains, second class tech scene, The power grid is run by Enron wannabes, women are like in the handmaid's tale.

Talk about buyers remorse. Saving a little money 3 years ago ain't worth the price of admission to that shit show.
Texas has some mountains, and a shit ton of beaches.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Wow! What utter morons. I just really don't understand this. If this were happening in New Hampshire, customers would pull every lever they have (mainly the politicians) to get it fixed.
Most of the morons in Rural Texas would live on the streets before they voted for a democrat. So the republicans have zero incentive to not be corrupt pieces of shit.
 
Reactions: Linux23

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,920
20,206
136
Texas has some mountains, and a shit ton of beaches.

Please show me a liberal Texas city where people from California went to like Austin with such great beach access and great weather.

And as far as natural beauty goes if you want to talk up Texas go ahead, but it's a speck of dust compared to the west coast.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,177
5,641
146
There is actually a boom in power grid-attached battery storage capacity here in Texas. It makes sense to buy(charge) low and sell high when the prices have such a wild variance.

I'm hoping that will help the state expand the renewables even further, but I won't be surprised if the lack of good transmission lines limits that.

They'll just ban people or put strict pricing limits on selling to the grid.

Its like Texas decided to force people to have to build their own green energy setups so they are self-reliant and then they'll go "see we're the most self-reliant". Fortunately by the time that's likely to happen there will be ample opportunity for Texans to do something about the political cesspit that is their government. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of hope that will happen even by then and instead Texas starts going Mad Max instead.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Please show me a liberal Texas city where people from California went to like Austin with such great beach access and great weather.

And as far as natural beauty goes if you want to talk up Texas go ahead, but it's a speck of dust compared to the west coast.
Stating facts, isn't talking up it's natural beauty.
 
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