Texas Oil Refinery Explosion . . .

[CaptnKirk]

A long time ago on a forum, far, far, away . . .

Re-read some of the comments made by the posters here, especially Steeplerot - he was pretty close to spot on.

Texas Refinery Safey Issues going to court

 

[Steeplerot]

Good to see this is getting taken care of.


And to the haters who jumped on me even after showing OSHA reports, here it comes, I told you so.

Originally posted by: CycloWizard[/b]
[
You, sir, are completely out of touch with reality. You continue to revel in your own ignorance. Feel free to do so. I will feel free to neglect anything you say.





quote: [/Originally posted by: ElFenix

i mean, do you even think about what you're saying?




quote:
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I'll be more than happy to embarrass you.

Thanks Cyclo, but once again you might want to pull that foot out of your mouth before you try it.



I hope these workers unionize fast.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

:roll: It had nothing to do with Unions. You think accidents don't happen if Unions are involved? You don't think safety violations occur with Unions? :roll:

It's funny how some of you are so in love with Unions that you seem to think they are people's only savior. It's almost like a religion to some of you. Wake up people! Unions aren't the end all or be all, and in a lot of cases are just as corrupt or more corrupt than corporations.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Good to see this is getting taken care of.


And to the haters who jumped on me even after showing OSHA reports, here it comes, I told you so.

Originally posted by: CycloWizard[/b]
[
You, sir, are completely out of touch with reality. You continue to revel in your own ignorance. Feel free to do so. I will feel free to neglect anything you say.





quote: [/Originally posted by: ElFenix

i mean, do you even think about what you're saying?




quote:
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I'll be more than happy to embarrass you.

Thanks Cyclo, but once again you might want to pull that foot out of your mouth before you try it.



I hope these workers unionize fast.

Actually Cyclo pretty much nailed it in that thread. The accident had nothing to do with Conservatives nor Unions, yet you decided to troll those in there.

 

[Steeplerot]

Sure, then why are unions losing to corporate greed? If they are more corrupt they should have money money then the corrupt corporations, oh yeah, becasue a unions job is not to be corrupt and use people for money. It is to protect workers.

As unions dissapear these accidents will continue until someone looks out for workers except how to fleece them.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Sure, then why are unions losing to corporate greed? If they are more corrupt they should have money money then the corrupt corporations, oh yeah, becasue a unions job is not to be corrupt and use people for money. It is to protect workers.

As unions dissapear these accidents will continue until someone looks out for workers except how to fleece them.

Unions are losing because they are just as corrupt if not more so than corporations. You know how unions get money? That's right, the TAKE it from people's paychecks. Talk about fleecing.

Your continued assertion that Unions somehow prevent accidents shows just how right Cyclo was. You are way out of touch with reality. You need to lay off the Union religion.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Sure, then why are unions losing to corporate greed? If they are more corrupt they should have money money then the corrupt corporations, oh yeah, becasue a unions job is not to be corrupt and use people for money. It is to protect workers.

As unions dissapear these accidents will continue until someone looks out for workers except how to fleece them.

Unions are losing because they are just as corrupt if not more so than corporations. You know how unions get money? That's right, the TAKE it from people's paychecks. Talk about fleecing.

Your continued assertion that Unions somehow prevent accidents shows just how right Cyclo was. You are way out of touch with reality. You need to lay off the Union religion.

That is not fleecing that is collecting dues, but contributing something to better all our situation is a hard concept for you I know.

 

[3chordcharlie]

I've worked at places with unions that only deal with safety, have never demanded pay or other benefits, and have never been on strike or even gone so far as to set a strike date.

Corporations don't make more money being safe unless you change the game to make accidents more costly. And we all know that a properly functioning corporation owes allegience to only one thing - dollars, so if you want reasonable safety in dangerous work environemtns, you need at least one of:

regulation;

collective bargaining;

highly skilled, expensive to replace workers.

Skip all three, or choose 'regulation' and then under-enforce it, and you will not have safety.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Sure, then why are unions losing to corporate greed? If they are more corrupt they should have money money then the corrupt corporations, oh yeah, becasue a unions job is not to be corrupt and use people for money. It is to protect workers.

As unions dissapear these accidents will continue until someone looks out for workers except how to fleece them.

Unions are losing because they are just as corrupt if not more so than corporations. You know how unions get money? That's right, the TAKE it from people's paychecks. Talk about fleecing.

Your continued assertion that Unions somehow prevent accidents shows just how right Cyclo was. You are way out of touch with reality. You need to lay off the Union religion.

That is not fleecing that is collecting dues, but contributing something to better all our situation is a hard concept for you I know.

hahahaha hohohohoho hehehehehe that is some great comedy right there hahaha.

Did he really just say that?

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Sure, then why are unions losing to corporate greed? If they are more corrupt they should have money money then the corrupt corporations, oh yeah, becasue a unions job is not to be corrupt and use people for money. It is to protect workers.

As unions dissapear these accidents will continue until someone looks out for workers except how to fleece them.

Unions are losing because they are just as corrupt if not more so than corporations. You know how unions get money? That's right, the TAKE it from people's paychecks. Talk about fleecing.

Your continued assertion that Unions somehow prevent accidents shows just how right Cyclo was. You are way out of touch with reality. You need to lay off the Union religion.

That is not fleecing that is collecting dues, but contributing something to better all our situation is a hard concept for you I know.

hahahaha hohohohoho hehehehehe that is some great comedy right there hahaha.

Did he really just say that?

:laugh:

The sad thing is he probably really believes that. Just another sucker in the Union religion.

 

[Steeplerot]

If you would believe so, but you are the one using a faith based mindset that your government nanny controls and corporate greed will keep you safe instead of taking responsibility for yourself and your fellow worker, actions trump just hoping it will be ok, and it shows what happened to these workers, greed kills.

Sad you don't have the courage to take matters into your own hand instead of depending on the government to cover your ass.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
If you would believe so, but you are the one using a faith based mindset that your government nanny controls and corporate greed will keep you safe instead of taking responsibility for yourself and your fellow worker, actions trump just hoping it will be ok, and it shows what happened to these workers, greed kills.

Sad you don't have the courage to take matters into your own hand instead of depending on the government to cover your ass.

You post "taking responsibility for yourself and your fellow worker" yet your whole premise has been that a Union will save people? :laugh:

"government nanny controls"? Just what is OSHA? That's right, a Government agency.

It's funny that you sit here and claim that I don't have the courage to take matters into my own hands yet it is you and yours that need/want Unions to protect you from the big bad Corportions. :laugh: I don't need the Government or a Union to protect me from my employer. If I don't like my job, I will leave it. If conditions are not safe, I will not work until it is safe. It really is that simple - I don't need some "protector" like you Union cult types do. I take responsibility for myself and my actions and will not give up my voice to anyone - ever.

You are a riot! :laugh:

 

[Steeplerot]

In other words you will give up your job and be a slave to your employer willingly instead of speaking up, how do you sit up at a keyboard with a spine that soft?

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
In other words you will give up your job and be a slave to your employer willingly instead of speaking up, how do you sit up at a keyboard with a spine that soft?

No, what I said was that I don't need the government or some union to help me. If my employer is an asshole or screws me - I'll leave because I won't work for a place that does not respect it's employees. If the work environment is not safe - it's the same deal.

Nothing in that position is being a "slave" or spinless. Spineless would be PAYING someone else to protect you from your employer. IE. Unions

Got anything else there funny boy?:laugh:

 

[Steeplerot]

In other words you will tuck tail and run instead of taking back power even though they are the ones that need you, pathetic.

What kind of suckass jobs do you work to just run from job to job if it is unsafe or they screw you? burger kings?

Like I said, get a spine, the government controls or corporate greed will not watch out for you it is up to workers to make sure they are getting a fair shake, as noone else will.

You do realize the only reason there are decent non-union jobs out there is because unions raised the standard to be acceptable for you in the first place, a concept you for some partisan reason you dont think you are responsible to uphold.

 

[Kappo]

How can you two never find something in the middle?

Unions are good if they operate in the capacity that they were designed for. Roughly half of the time they dont.

3chordcharlie hit it on the button. Either get a union or get some regulations that make companies not want to suffer an accident. If you make it cheap, they will buy it. It's what companies are for, to make money. To think they are evil for serving thier purpose is idiotic. If you ALLOW something, people will do it. Sheesh.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Kappo
How can you two never find something in the middle?

Unions are good if they operate in the capacity that they were designed for. Roughly half of the time they dont.

3chordcharlie hit it on the button. Either get a union or get some regulations that make companies not want to suffer an accident. If you make it cheap, they will buy it. It's what companies are for, to make money. To think they are evil for serving thier purpose is idiotic. If you ALLOW something, people will do it. Sheesh.

I am not speaking of profit here, this is about saftey measures at a plant that grossly neglected security at their employees expense, I am fine with making money but there is a balance and a purpose for a union, a shifting job force and accidents kill profit along with workers.
There is not "religion" to a simple form of checks and balances that have made a higher standard of living in this country then any other (at one point,, granted that and unions have declined) one that a lot of our unioned grandfathers died for against companies willing to do anything to maintain profit over workers livelihoods.

 

[Kappo]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Kappo
How can you two never find something in the middle?

Unions are good if they operate in the capacity that they were designed for. Roughly half of the time they dont.

3chordcharlie hit it on the button. Either get a union or get some regulations that make companies not want to suffer an accident. If you make it cheap, they will buy it. It's what companies are for, to make money. To think they are evil for serving thier purpose is idiotic. If you ALLOW something, people will do it. Sheesh.

I am not speaking of profit here, this is about saftey measures at a plant that grossly neglected security at their employees expense, I am fine with making money but there is a balance and a purpose for a union, a shifting job force and accidents kill profit along with workers.

No kidding. I sure wouldnt want to have anything to kill my profits at all (and the people would be a great concern to me also, but I cant expect that from everyone).

My idea would be to impose very harsh fines for accidents and more mandatory inspections. You can live fine without unions.

Ill tell you MY problem with unions.

We did a show out in Vegas last year. When we were setting things up, if I needed an extension cord run more than about 5 feet across the booth, we had to have a union worker do it. Look at some of the costs associated with this.

Add extension cord to booth = $45
Change lightbulb (without ladder) = $40
Change lightbulb (with ladder) = $65
Carry box from one booth to another = $50

Do ANY of these seem resonable? This is HOW THEY OPERATE for the most part. Now, if they let us do our own crap that we COULD do and rely on them for the things that might interfere with our safety, then I could understand.

When they operate how they are supposed to, they are a great defense from lack of government regulation on what a business can do. So Im torn. Let the businesses handle thier own crap and let the unions deal with the safety standards (thereby making things much more independant of the government), or impose heavy fines for accidents which would be enforced by the government (reliance on government).

Do you feel my pain?

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
In other words you will tuck tail and run instead of taking back power even though they are the ones that need you, pathetic.

What kind of suckass jobs do you work to just run from job to job if it is unsafe or they screw you? burger kings?

Like I said, get a spine, the government controls or corporate greed will not watch out for you it is up to workers to make sure they are getting a fair shake, as noone else will.

You do realize the only reason there are decent non-union jobs out there is because unions raised the standard to be acceptable for you in the first place, a concept you for some partisan reason you dont think you are responsible to uphold.

Yeah :roll: Obviously if something came up I would fight for the correct outcome but at the end of the day the owner has the final say. If I am not pleased with the outcome the yes, I will leave and go work somewhere else where I am respected by my employer.
An employer-employee relationship is symbiotic - both need each other and money is exchanged for work at the negotiated rate.
"taking back power"? :laugh: as if it is YOUR company.

I am employed at a place that values my work and I exchange my work for a decent salary. I have only left one job due to my employer's lack of respect. They took notice only after I left and have now changed how they operate. Unfortunately for them, they couldn't get me back even though they tried. I had found a new employer who valued my work more and worked from day one to earn my trust and respect. So your charges of "run from job to job" are completely unfounded.

I thought you said Unions were saving everyone? Now you think people should stand up for themselves? If employees actually did that where would the union's place be? :laugh:

Unions had their place in history but now they are nothing more than a scam. My occupation is not Unionized and thus your Union cult tripe doesn't apply even if it were true.


Seems you are just confusing yourself over all this. On one hand you want to spout the Union cult talking points yet you also want to be this anarchist "fight the power" type. Seems to me you are nothing but a walking contradiction. :laugh:

 

[jackschmittusa]

ShadesOfGrey

Look at the history of the steel mills and mines in this country. Safety wasn't even an afterthought in those industries until the workers organized and spoke with one voice. Even the government listened to them.

Yes, unions have their shortcomings, some are even serious. But they have a place as well. Most work hard to insure the safety of the workers. I am sure you have no idea what is like to work in a non-union factory where management prefers production numbers to safety.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey


Seems you are just confusing yourself over all this. On one hand you want to spout the Union cult talking points yet you also want to be this anarchist "fight the power" type. Seems to me you are nothing but a walking contradiction. :laugh:

I do not know what is more pathetic, your accusation that I am a "anarchist" or your accusing me of contridicting your lame worldview, If you had a clue you would fight the power that over takes you in here daily, the power of stupid hackery and raving lunatic fringe right wing bs.

Now go get your apron back on, china needs you greeting incoming customers slaveboi.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Let me guess...your the same Steeplerot who believes in the 9/11 conspiracy theories??


rofl...way too funnyee...
Both ShadesofGray and Cyclowozard are owning you big time in this thread...
"It had nothing to do with Unions. You think accidents don't happen if Unions are involved? You don't think safety violations occur with Unions?

It's funny how some of you are so in love with Unions that you seem to think they are people's only savior. It's almost like a religion to some of you. Wake up people! Unions aren't the end all or be all, and in a lot of cases are just as corrupt or more corrupt than corporations. "

"Actually Cyclo pretty much nailed it in that thread. The accident had nothing to do with Conservatives nor Unions, yet you decided to troll those in there."

Unions are losing because they are just as corrupt if not more so than corporations. You know how unions get money? That's right, the TAKE it from people's paychecks. Talk about fleecing.

"Your continued assertion that Unions somehow prevent accidents shows just how right Cyclo was. You are way out of touch with reality. You need to lay off the Union religion. "

While your at it plz lay off the 9/11 conspiracy theorie stuff also...rofl


ShadesofGray you can`t reason with a little kid like Steeplerot who can`t even read and has no concept of unions or for that matter taking responsibility for your actions...
Hell....Steeplerot even actually believes there was a 9//11 conspiracy..lolol

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Let me guess...your the same Steeplerot who believes in the 9/11 conspiracy theories??


rofl...way too funnyee...
Both ShadesofGray and Cyclowozard are owning you big time in this thread...
"It had nothing to do with Unions. You think accidents don't happen if Unions are involved? You don't think safety violations occur with Unions?

It's funny how some of you are so in love with Unions that you seem to think they are people's only savior. It's almost like a religion to some of you. Wake up people! Unions aren't the end all or be all, and in a lot of cases are just as corrupt or more corrupt than corporations. "

"Actually Cyclo pretty much nailed it in that thread. The accident had nothing to do with Conservatives nor Unions, yet you decided to troll those in there."

Unions are losing because they are just as corrupt if not more so than corporations. You know how unions get money? That's right, the TAKE it from people's paychecks. Talk about fleecing.

"Your continued assertion that Unions somehow prevent accidents shows just how right Cyclo was. You are way out of touch with reality. You need to lay off the Union religion. "

While your at it plz lay off the 9/11 conspiracy theorie stuff also...rofl


ShadesofGray you can`t reason with a little kid like Steeplerot who can`t even read and has no concept of unions or for that matter taking responsibility for your actions...
Hell....Steeplerot even actually believes there was a 9//11 conspiracy..lolol

Now thats scary...hehehee

 

[CaptnKirk]

Quoting yourself after one minute ?

That's pretty damn lame isn't it.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
ShadesOfGrey

Look at the history of the steel mills and mines in this country. Safety wasn't even an afterthought in those industries until the workers organized and spoke with one voice. Even the government listened to them.

Yes, unions have their shortcomings, some are even serious. But they have a place as well. Most work hard to insure the safety of the workers. I am sure you have no idea what is like to work in a non-union factory where management prefers production numbers to safety.

I acknowledge their past goals and wins, but that does not give them a free pass to be the scam they are today.
"Unions had their place in history but now they are nothing more than a scam."